Post by evilchen

Posted: 7/29/2006 9:45 AM

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spockybiemmichab

Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany

nitsuja wrote:

It is really entertaining, but the times you walked diagonally instead of jumping (while you had the feather equipped) are becoming increasingly noticeable as mistakes.

Where exactly? I couldn't find (maybe one) any situation when jumping would have helped. You can't jump into the next screen (except entrances to houses, caves etc.). The movie is really great! About the new glitches Graveworm discovered: Personally, I don't like them because they contain some "mysterious warping" and in my opinion the existing run uses enough of these warpings, although it is another method to generate the warp. Remember: It's just my point of view ;)

Posted: 7/29/2006 10:40 AM

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Xkeeper

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850

Graveworm wrote:

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1469/ Ok, how does this work? I'm probably not the first person to have done it, but I have no idea of what triggers it, and it doesn't happen every time I try, I guess it has to do with what direction I'm going when I'm hitting the edge of the screen or something like that. This game is too weird. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1471/ Ok, that room is strange, I've never seen it before.

That room, as well as the one above it, are two of three (known) rooms left over from an earlier test version of the game (also note how the room at the top connects to the secret entrance outdoors)...

Perma-banned

Posted: 7/29/2006 11:10 AM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2142)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

I think Nitsuja is thinking about some places in dungeon 2 for example. In that time Chef didn't know it was faster. And As you don't save many frames he didn't remake it either. Very nice dungeon 3! I don't have any questions. Good use of the Pegasus bug too. EDIT: I have not done that before, Graveworm.. So I'm not sure how it works. One tip, don't use the same movie name on both movies=).

Posted: 7/29/2006 11:58 AM

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spockybiemmichab

Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany

I just did some experiments with Graveworms movie and extended it a bit and this is the result: Click! It's quite funny :) Edit: And now I found a way to get to the nightmare's room. On my way I'm crossing the room of boss 8. It's also possible to fight him, but it's hopeless since you don't have the rod. Edit2: Sorry to bother you with all this (I guess) quite useless stuff, but this glitch is really weird. Crazy floor!

Posted: 7/29/2006 2:03 PM

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Chef_Stef

Editor, Active player (466)

Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States

I also found Graveworm's glitch just last night; I ran straight out of the dungeon, jumped into the water in the next screen, and performed the glitch from my "respawn" point. I played around with the final boss, but remember that you don't need the rod; you can just spinslash him in that form (as exhibited by the glitched black and white run). All this opens up a new realm of possibility... I wasn't able to test what happens if you kill the final boss, unfortunately (only 9 arrows). The big question is: Should I glitch my way through the rest of the game? If so, I will need to find the closest arrow refill point so I can have enough arrows. The way I see it, there should be 2 runs; one using this glitchy route, and one 100% route.

Posted: 7/29/2006 2:23 PM

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evilchen

Joined: 6/9/2006
Posts: 614
Location: Mettmann

i wouldn't like a run like zelda on snes which runs 5 minutes and port's to the end ;/

https://www.youtube.com/user/armitageyt

Posted: 7/29/2006 2:24 PM

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Tompa

Any

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Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

Please, don't use any teleport qlitches in this run... I have been waiting for one without it for a long time. I have reached the hookshot and it is working nice buggy with it too. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1475/Hookshot%20bugs

Posted: 7/29/2006 2:34 PM

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Chef_Stef

Editor, Active player (466)

Joined: 5/23/2006
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So maybe the warping run can be set aside for a later time. But if I were to work on this warping run, I certainly would come back to finish the non-warping run. Although that does create complications as to which movie would be accepted and if it would obsolete the other... I think the point of this site is to complete games as fast as possible. This glitch certainly completes the game much faster than intended; yet, there's already one of these runs on the site. On the other hand, this run already uses glitches to complete the game quickly. So are you suggesting that just a "non-warping" requirement be placed on this run? I think it would help to know what criteria would be acceptable and entertaining in accords with the purpose of this site. Edit: But, if it really detracts from the entertainment to warp, I can see where you, Tompa, and others are coming from.

Posted: 7/29/2006 2:36 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2142)

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Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

There are both of the types on the Link to Past runs. Why shall this be different?

Posted: 7/29/2006 2:37 PM
(Edited: 7/29/2006 2:48 PM)

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spockybiemmichab

Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany

Chef Stef wrote:

but remember that you don't need the rod; you can just spinslash him in that form (as exhibited by the glitched black and white run).

I was talking about the boss in dungeon 8, the fire-thing. As far as I know it's only vulnerable to the rod.

Chef Stef wrote:

The way I see it, there should be 2 runs; one using this glitchy route, and one 100% route.

Please do the "normal" route. The glitchy route is quite interesting (as I was able to enter dungeon 6, 7 and 8), but I don't like the game beaten again by some mysterious warps. Edit: This hookshot glitch is cool!

Posted: 7/29/2006 2:43 PM
(Edited: 7/29/2006 3:18 PM)

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Tompa

Any

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Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

I have done a 100% Speedrun route a while ago with Maur's help. It's the same from my movie, but if you wanted it so here it is: --> shield --> sword --> +10 rupees from enemies --> -10 rupees trendy game +30 --> -10 yoshi doll, trendy game --> -10 magic powder, trendy game --> -10 rupees trendy game +30 --> seashell #1 --> yoshi doll -> ribbon --> -10 +5 -10 +20 fish game, heart piece #1 --> ribbon -> dog food --> tail key --> heart piece #2, well --> dog food --> bananas --> Tail Cave --> +50 chest in mysterious forest cave --> heart piece #3 --> get bowwow --> +50 chest in middle of swamp --> Bottle Grotto --> +50 re-enter bottle grotto, grab chest --> +50 chest in cave west of bottle grotto --> heart piece #4 inside cave --> get bomb upgrade --> chest with seashell #2 --> return bowwow --> -200 -10 shop, buy shovel, bombs --> exit shop, reenter steal bow + arrows --> dig up seashell #3 --> head east of warp hole, bombarrow rock face --> get seashell #4 under rock --> get seashell #5 outside Seashell House --> get seashell #6 inside Seashell house --> banana -> stick --> koholint castle + golden leaves --> seashell #7 in Richard's house --> slime key --> Key Cavern --> dig up seashell #8 --> heart piece #5 inside cave --> stick -> honey --> honey -> pineapple --> warp hole -> mabe village --> ocarina --> get marin --> seashell #9, outside Tail Cave --> seashell #10 dig oustide cave --> seashell #11 seashell house --> angler key --> fall down, heart piece #6 --> seashell #12 under rock --> heart piece #7 in cave east of animal village --> learn BotWF --> get heart piece #8 under grave --> dig up seashell #13 --> insert key --> pineapple -> flowers --> Angler's Tunnel --> after flipper collection, use the miniboss warp to exit the dungeon --> learn the mambo --> warp hole -> animal village --> flowers -> letter --> seashell #14 on the "bush island" --> seashell #15 in bush --> get arrow upgrade --> play the mambo --> letter -> broom --> Mabe village, broom -> hook --> warp hole animal village --> dig seashell #16 at bridge --> hook -> neckless --> neckless -> seashell --> Catfish's Maw +200 rupees --> jump from water up on bridge --> seashell -> magnifying glass --> face key --> get seashell #17 under statue --> Face Shrine (Get seashell #18 inside +100 rupees) --> mambo warp: skips owl after face shrine --> seashell #18 in tree --> learn frog song of soul --> rooster --> go down to beach, get boomerang --> play mambo song --> seashell #19 in bush east of Key Cavern --> seashell #20 outside koholint castle --> get lvl 2 sword --> heart piece # 9 in water outside koholint castle --> eagle key: jump into pit to exit --> blow wall, heart piece #10 --> get magic powder upgrade --> pass through flamethrower --> wake + pass through turtle head --> Turtle Rock (Getting heart piece #11) --> play the mambo --> Eagle's Tower --> fall down cliff --> heart piece #12 --> Angler's Tunnel --> mambo warp --> Wind Fish Egg EDIT: I have found a place where the Hookshot glitch can be used to save a bomb, and time, in dungeon 6: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1476/Use%20of%20the%20Hookshot%20glitch.vbm

Posted: 7/29/2006 3:09 PM

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Chef_Stef

Editor, Active player (466)

Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States

Tompa wrote:

--> ocarina +100 rupees

I noticed in your run that you instead took 100 rupees from a different dungeon (I think it was Face Shrine). Which is faster?

Posted: 7/29/2006 3:17 PM

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Tompa

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Oh, hadn't changed that yet... It is faster to take the 100 rupee chest in dungeon 6 instead, as I have to take the seashell. Shall edit the route. I found a shortcut in dungeon 6 using the hookshot glitch: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1477/Dungeon%206%20bug.vbm Sadly this won't save as much time as it looks like. Because you need a key to get the nightmare key, which can be taken very easy close to the "Bug place". Next, after obtaining the nightmare key jump down and take the key in the chest and teleport to start. You will now either have to go the long way and kill the mini boss so you can get to the nightmare the right way. Or els do the bug once more, which I think is faster.

Posted: 7/29/2006 3:43 PM

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spockybiemmichab

Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany

hmm...I just made a movie which finishes dungeon 8 after 3. The good thing is: I have the Rod and the L2-Power Bracelett so lot's of time would be saved in dungeon 6. Movie PS: The movie's kind of sloppy...real time playing (with several rerecords) Edit: If you finish dungeon 7 with this glitch, the rooster + the 3rd song could completely be skipped...

Posted: 7/30/2006 8:10 PM

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Tompa

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If you shall go for the Pegasus teleport ýou shall remake your dungeon 3 a bit. You only need to take the boots then teleport to start and warp. I will do dungeon 8, and what's before, tomorrow to see if I can find anymore usefull glitches.

Posted: 7/30/2006 9:29 PM

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Chef_Stef

Editor, Active player (466)

Joined: 5/23/2006
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Location: Washington, United States

I truly understand if everybody wants to see a run without a warping glitch. I can see that warping to the final boss area is a big let-down for Tompa and others. The only doubt in my mind is that a TAS should aim to complete the game as fast as possible. Not using the gltich certainly improves the run's entertainment, but is it worth the tradeoff in time? This is why I am inclined to want two runs, a gltichy run, and a 100% run. Basically, I want to understand more about how everybody feels about this warping route. For now, I'm continuing work on the TAS according to the original plan, as I think that would be the best choice at present.

Posted: 7/30/2006 9:43 PM

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cheetah_7071

Former player

Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 200

We already have a glitchy run. We don't need another. Just do this one without any warp glitches.

Posted: 7/30/2006 10:11 PM

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evilchen

Joined: 6/9/2006
Posts: 614
Location: Mettmann

agreed

https://www.youtube.com/user/armitageyt

Posted: 7/30/2006 11:01 PM

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Chef_Stef

Editor, Active player (466)

Joined: 5/23/2006
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Fine, I'll keep working on the non-warping run.

Posted: 7/31/2006 3:14 AM

Post subject: oh...

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pirate_sephiroth

Active player (308)

Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil

No! Glitchy runs are NEVER enough! EVERYBODY LOVES THEM!

"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate

Bisqwit wrote:

Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.

Posted: 7/31/2006 8:08 AM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

Put another way: If this run uses a warping glitch, and is slower than the one we have published now, it will be rejected. But if it instead finishes all the mandatory dungeons without warping like you're supposed to, it can be published in a different category. (Apologies if I missed something, I haven't seen the current progress.)

Posted: 8/1/2006 1:22 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2142)

Joined: 8/15/2005
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I have now finished my glitchsearching game. I couldn't find anything interesting with Up/Left/Right/Down glitches or other tricks more than I already know. But there is nothing I need to say now, I shall wait and see your runs first. And thanks that you will continue with this run instead of a warprun. It makes me really happy ^^.

Posted: 8/2/2006 1:24 AM

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Chef_Stef

Editor, Active player (466)

Joined: 5/23/2006
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Location: Washington, United States

This is a rather minor update, but I have just collected Marin and am now on my way to the walrus: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1513/Through%20Marin.vbm It's a pretty long addition, but there isn't much action except for getting the Ocarina and madly dashing everywhere :) A good shortcut was to Save and Quit warp back to town once I got Marin with me; I'm pretty sure nothing is lost by doing so.

Posted: 8/2/2006 9:25 AM
(Edited: 8/3/2006 7:24 AM)

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2142)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

Oh, have forgot that you are using Save&Quit warps. Aren't there a lot of places where you could have saved time that way? Your progress looks fine. But is it really faster to go right instead of left when you shall go and get the honey? Seams longer to me... Another thing that could be a little faster is when you enter the dreamworld you can press up before you appear, the enemy will walk down but Link will stand on the same place. So you can run into him and kill him from the side and run up a little faster. EDIT: Forgot to mention before that I really liked your Genie battle, hehe. Nice way to avoid the fireballs :D. EDIT again: I have updated the Bomb and Arrow use. I also did a "Walkthrough" through dungeon 6. Hope you can understand it or els I wil do a movie of it. Here is my new bomb/arrow use:

(20) Bombs and (20) Arrows at start. The (19) is how many you got left. Overworld = 1 bombarrow (19 bombs 19 arrows) for pig. Kanalet = 4 arrows for Bomb Enemy (15) 2 bombarrows (17 bombs 13arrows) for hidden knight. 2 arrows(11) for ball%chain enemy. D3 = 3 bombs(14) for mini boss. 1 bombarrow(13 bombs 10arrows) for knightmare key. 1 bomb(12) for Clock Bombs here you will get three new bombs(15). One bombarrow for wall (14 bombs 9 arrows). Overworld = Two ways: Either glitching with two bombs at the same time which could be very diffucult or even impossible to do but is the fastest. Or els one bomb and the rest slashing with the sword, you can still take him in one round but is just a little slower. You can't use two bombarrows because the arrows wont be enough for D5. (12/13 bombs 8 arrows) D4 = 1 bombarrow(11 bombs 7 arrows) to blow bombblock. D5 = A total of 7 bombarrows (5 bombs and 0 arrows left) and 4 bombs (1 left) are needed for the Hookshot guardian (On the last hit on each time you can use just a bomb instead of a bombarrow to save arrows, don't do that on the last one though.) 1 bomb refill that you shall take. Just one room away Left-Up-Right from second Skeleton Knight. (11 bombs) Overworld = You can get 2 arrows (2 left) in the jars before key 6 guardian. Use boots and sword to kill him. D6 = Bomb(10) switch, bombarrow(9 bombs 1 arrows) wall, bombarrow Moldorm and Wizzrobes (I guess you can with luck manipulation kill them all three in one bombarrow (8 bombs 0 arrow), use Hookshot glitch so you don't need to bomb switch again, arrow and bombrefill (18 bombs 10 arrows). When lifting the jar you need to open the door take both the bombs under the jars (20), 2 bombarrows (18 bombs 8 arrows) to kill wizzrobes to get a key , use hookshot glitch to take a shortcut through the dungeon and skip the miniboss. 2 bombarrows for rabbits (16 bombs and 6 arrows) 6 bombs (10) to kill the mini mini boss. Go and get the nightmare key and jump down to get the key from the chest then teleport back to start. Go left and back to the switch room, continue to the room with the arrow refill and Wizzrobes, take the arrows (16). Go back to the right and up the stairs. Do the Hookshot glitch again to get down to the jar and horseheads. Go right and continue to the boss room. Kill him with 5 bombs (5) Overworld = 1 bomb (4). 1 arrow (15) D8 = 3 bombs (1). 4 arrows (11). Go down from the statue holding the key to get a bomb and arrow refill (11 bombs 21 arrows) D7 = 2 bombarrows (9 bombs 19 arrows). Last boss = 16 arrows