Hmm. I managed to do spiral mountain 3s faster with holding R. MM however, I did 2s slower with my method. but this is also the first time I have ever tried to make a TAS so maybe my suggestion could still save time if I get those other notes as banjo, and do other things in the level faster.
http://tas.monotoli.org/mov/bk/bk_badTAS-bkDJ.m64
Is the new 0.6 plugin being used for this movie since it may be worth starting over again since Spiral and MM could have been optimized better but I've enjoyed what I've seen so far.
EDIT: When the witch switch was hi,t couldn't Banjo be moved so that he fell on the ground below the witch switch platform.
Is the new 0.6 plugin being used for this movie since it may be worth starting over again since Spiral and MM could have been optimized better but I've enjoyed what I've seen so far.
EDIT: When the witch switch was hi,t couldn't Banjo be moved so that he fell on the ground below the witch switch platform.
The problem is that rolling and other things can only be in in 8 directions. It's like I'm almost handicapped by using a gamepad. And yeah the witch switch resets your position after the cutscene and if you try to be fancy it lags. And the game only renders frames like 4 frames after input is given so it's difficult to aim perfectly.I suppose when the game is in free camera mode, R can be used to position the camera behind you for a perfect straight line to a destination, but there are many areas where you cannot rotate the camera.
The problem is that rolling and other things can only be in in 8 directions.
That's definitely not true. I count at least 24 different directions of rolling. And adjusting the analog for normal running gives extremely fine control, no need to rely on the camera being behind you.
Joined: 6/20/2004
Posts: 292
Location: United Kingdom
nitsuja wrote:
bkDJ wrote:
The problem is that rolling and other things can only be in in 8 directions.
That's definitely not true. I count at least 24 different directions of rolling. And adjusting the analog for normal running gives extremely fine control, no need to rely on the camera being behind you.
Thing is, this is being done with a keyboard, that's why they're saying only 8 directions. Unless that's been changed.
This video http://rapidshare.de/files/29478144/Mario_Testing_.avi.html might give you a better idea of what I was talking about earlier, its what I did for the mini OoT run earlier, achiving results that only a keyboard user could ever dream of, but its highly advisiable to use frame advance throughout and note down,memorize or visualise previous output. Ghosting input would certainly be useful feature if it was at all possible. I found setting it to degrees and tilt a little easier than coordinates.
I restart whole thing and Spiral Mountain is now complete!
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1629/Banjo-Kazooie-TAS-Sami.m64
Old time 2.15 New Time 2.13
It looks smoother and I use better camera angles :)
And I collect that cauliflower honeycomb last because if I collect that 5th, cauliflower are too far away and it takes a many seconds to destroy.
I use R when i diving.
Nice! I was dumb and tried doing Spiral Mountain again myself but was slower than before because I didn't roll or flap much during straight lines. So roll + flap really does help. And why didn't I think of feathery flap to boost after the tree honeycomb! :)
Still yours finished on frame 23411, and mine on 23456 :P
(I may try some luck manipulation to get the colliwobble closer later tonight)
Thanks :) I think luckmanipulation wont help because that cauliflower fly a circle. If you walk whole place, cauliflower is closer to the fence. I roll and i still get that cauliflower closer destroying rocks first ;)
Did you use the short jumping technique I mentioned?
this will be useful for landing quickly on the huts in MM, but since the flap gives you a speed boost, landing immediately is not desirable in spiral mountain.
Not sure if you noticed sami, but when you do a Z+A jump, you pause for a long time when you land. I was thinking that in some areas where Z+A is necessary (juju honeycomb), that a midair Z to slam to the ground could be overall quicker. if you see in my run, when I get the honeycomb, I beakbust the statue, and then as I move forward and land, I keep my momentum as I am shooting the egg. I think this may be faster than doing Z+Cv (egg fart). Not sure. :/ Both ways are cool to watch though.
Edit: Sami what he means is that the initial vertical movement of feathery flap is downward so it can push you down from a jump if you are not too high above whatever you want to land on.
Edit: Sami what he means is that the initial vertical movement of feathery flap is downward so it can push you down from a jump if you are not too high above whatever you want to land on.
Use it right after you leave the ground to do a very short double jump (<30 frames), so that when you alternate rolls and jumps you spend more time rolling and less time jumping. I don't think it's useful for landing faster if you're moving down because it resets your vertical speed when you use it.
bkDJ wrote:
this will be useful for landing quickly on the huts in MM, but since the flap gives you a speed boost, landing immediately is not desirable in spiral mountain.
I believe the speed gain from more frequent rolls is much more than the speed boost from the flap, since the flap's boost is mostly vertical.
EDIT:What fraction faster is rolling than running?
FURTHER EDIT:Credit to SDA for this. When you exit Banjo's house, there's a spot along the wall on your right where you can flipflap jump up to Collywobble. The SDA people think this is faster. (Then again, they also think that walking is as fast as rolling and jumping.)
Trying 127.0.0.1...
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1) What fraction faster is rolling than running?
2) Credit to SDA for this. When you exit Banjo's house, there's a spot along the wall on your right where you can flipflap jump up to Collywobble. The SDA people think this is faster. (Then again, they also think that walking is as fast as rolling and jumping.)
1) I chose a distance in spirla mountain where I would run in a straight line with a runnig start). Frame count when I hit the far wall, using plain running as a reference:
plain running: 0
5x roll + jump: 0 (so SDA is right about that)
5x roll + jump + feathery flap: -20
5x jump + feathery flap: +10 (whoa)
5x jump: +20 (!!!!)
5x roll+ 6-frame jump flap: -20
therefore, forms of straight-line travel (excluding talon trot and talon jump because I'm sure those are the fastest but are not relevant for spiral mountain) in ascending order of speed:
jumping, jumping+flipping, rolljump/nothing, rolljumpflap.
I didn't test talon trot or talon jumping because I'm lazy but still, this is interesting. I wonder why the feathery flap alone seems to save 4 frames on rolljumpflap, but only 2 on a plain jumpflap?
Anyway you asked in percentages and I answered in frames. Fastest cycle I could do was |B|B[+10]A|A[+2]A|A[+16][ready for B again] So 34 frames. So if I'm saving 4 frames and ending up with 34, that means this improves running time by 10.5%
2) I'll check out sda to see where exactly because it isn't obvious to me.
Ok well I can't find any videos but I see where I should be able to do it but I cannot :/
Edit: to your below edit: 2 frames lost per execution (And to be clear I only called it 6-frame because AA to jump, 2 frames with nothing so it registers me letting go, and then AA again)
I'll check out sda to see where exactly because it isn't obvious to me.
I did it (on a console, sorry, no .m64) and it's after the slight bend. I don't know if this is the best place to do it, and I can't do it consistantly from the right spot, so just test several positions/angles.
EDIT:How fast is [plain] 6-frame jumping in the above test?
Trying 127.0.0.1...
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I checked the collywobble area and you can backflip up to the area where the seam and the yellow grass meet. You have to hold down a so you get a higher backflip for longer. I'm not sure how much time it would save if any.
Yeah that AA Jump is slower as my Roll+Jump+Fly
AKA can you make a m64 file or AVI? I can't get in the cauliflower place with backflip :/
OK I'll have a little go at SM. Has anyone ever tried to skip the bridge without the honeycombs?
I've tried before and hard to think of anything logical, I thought by some miracle it might be possible to walk on the rope barriers , but I doubt thats possible.
This is a 100% run. Even though the honeycombs are not required to continue, it's quicker to get them now than later.
You can jump up in a better spot:
There is a place where the wall changes direction slightly. Stand just to the left of it.
Walk streight at the wall and hold R until the camera stops moving.
Then line the seam up with Banjo's right armpit.
Finally, do a flipflap jump, holding the control stick up the whole time.
Now that you've found the sweet spot, load a savesatate, roll at that spot and do a flipflap jump.
EDIT:AKA wrote:
I thought by some miracle it might be possible to walk on the rope barriers , but I doubt thats possible.
Jumping onto a fence or similar thin thing will give you a boost towards one side so that you land on the ground. Which reminds me, try jumping on each fence for a forward boost.
EDIT2:New: You can use B instead of A with the same timing in a short jump and it lands you after the first peck.
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused
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seriously, an avi or m64 would be really helpful for this colliwobble jump. I can do it in the yellow grass, but not on the wall that's at a slight angle from the rest of the cliff.
http://tas.monotoli.org/mov/bk/ARRGH-bkDJ.mkv (less than 2MB)
seriously, an avi or m64 would be really helpful for this colliwobble jump. I can do it in the yellow grass, but not on the wall that's at a slight angle from the rest of the cliff.
http://tas.monotoli.org/mov/bk/ARRGH-bkDJ.mkv (less than 2MB)
Man, that's a great quality vid for it's file size and length :). mkv is quite versatile, isn't it.
Back on topic. I'm glad that someone, or a group of people are working on BK! I have a few save-states in the game, but not too many, I'm up to click clock wood (is that even the name for the forest level with the birds that come out of holes) but I haven't played any BK for about 4 months; but if anyone wants to try something, I might be of help in providing save-states.
Looking forward to watcing the progress of this run, and with people like Sami, AKA, bkDJ, etc (sorry if I missed anyone) this run should be quite good!
So with a 100% run, will we get all the cheatos? They don't specifically show up in the status screen(s), do they? But they do activate codes on the treasure trove cove floors. Being consistent with this, would getting completing the puzzle in Banjos's house to get more codes be part of 100%?
One more comment, does transforming into a washing machine allow any new glitches/sequence breaks?
