I vote yes.
I mean come on, I had no idea this was possible in the first place.
It's better than the real-time speedrun, and it can always be improved later.
Also, one thing I wanted to check up upon. I believe crouching is a faster way to fall from platforms. What I mean is take a moment like 4:32 in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWzmcIBaNFA&feature=related
I believe frames could be saved in instances like this where you slide off by crouching. Unless of course I'm wrong and it doesn't actually help your fall speed...
Oh I see. Yeah, that makes sense. Also stages like Yoshi's Story and Hyrule were banned due to laser camping from both Falco and Fox if I recall. But funny, Fox actually STILL has an infinite against walls, but it's easier to perform.
And actually DDD is still amazing without his 0 to death chaingrab on certain stages. His chaingrab is a very good way to racking up damage especially at higher percents if you put in grab attacks in between. His recovery and projectiles are also quite good. Add his good range, other throws that can kill, and his strong aerials, he's very solid.
Most stages in Brawl get banned because of King Dedede and his chaingrab against almost the entire cast of characters which is infinite against walls and on stages that allow you to walk to the blastzone.
However you can counterpick G&W against him and screw him over. =)
thegreginator wrote:
I play 64 competitively and this is simply not true. 64 is actually quite well balanced, as it is still very possible to win with a low tier character, unlike in SSBM. When I play people near my skill level, I find that I still have pretty much the same chances of winning regardless of the characters I choose and their tier placement.
Oh yeah? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuuQCqvp_0s
You have more and better advanced commands in Melee btw, and you have a better defensive system to counter against offense.
You don't have good defense in 64 to stop yourself from getting comboed to death, so basically in 64 it comes down to whoever has the most reliable and powerful combos, and this can be graded accurately since mobility is fairly simple in 64.
It's worse in Brawl than in Melee.
This is because in Melee, the balance between offense, defense, and grab was better. In Brawl, it revolves more heavily around defense, so basically the game comes more down to whoever can do most out of shield, and whoever has better options for dealing with other shields. In Melee the shield was less safe to use because it was laggier and harder to powershield. This is not the case in Brawl of course.
As far as I'm concerned, this is why Metaknight is THE best character in the game. Almost all of his attacks are safe on block, he has at least two out of shield options that kill, and he is very good at pressuring the shield. Also he doesn't get gimped. IMO, having good recovery is much more important than being heavy.
In case you are curious, I think SSB64 is weighted on the attack because combos are extremely prevalent in this game. Grabs are also lame in SSB64, but they don't combo much (but they can kill). And the shield and dodge system is more primitive. 64 is also more unbalanced than Melee btw.
As far as I know, Street Fighter 3 is currently the only game with actualy priority. Smash has always been about hitboxes (like most games). If that's changed in Brawl, then excuse my ignorance.
If I recall, there is some trend that determines whether attacks on the ground clank or if one overrides another. Projectile priority there are cases where some projectiles get destroyed or not by whatever attacks. When an aerial attack is used, attacks never clank. That's what I vaguely remember.
All in all IASA frames are not quite the same as having low lag attacks, but are really nice options for working around the lag of attacks.[/quote]
The bottom line is that discussing what characters are "good" in brawl is pointless, because better players will win games, even if their choice isn't top "tier".
Yeah. That was almost completely true in Melee. Not so much in Brawl which is less balanced despite the efforts to remove 0 to death combos (when ironically new ones came about that were just more character specific. <<).
G&W actually isn't placing quite as well in tourneys as I think he should be. I think part of the reason is because the top level players we know of are all jumping onto Snake and MK, so there are more scrubs like me jumping onto G&W in comparison (I'm not actually a tourney player see?).
But oh well I can't really argue against the fact MK and Snake are the top two. MK is too fast, too good at approaching, kills at much lower percents than he should, has no trouble with diminishing returns, and is extremely good at gimping with many attacks with horizontal knockback. Snake on the other hand is the complete antithesis of MK, as he has the best defensive game with grenades, tilts with as much disjointed range as Marth's sword if not more, and tons of ways to control the opponent's movement.
The guy who gets 3rd place is debatable right now but I lean towards G&W hehe.
And priority doesn't exist. Hard to manipulate something that isn't there.
Priority only exists for projectiles and ground based attacks. In the air, it's all about the size and duration of your hitboxes.
Azzomg - I'm sure G&W is better then he was in Melee (it'd be hard not to) and I'll agree with that you'd probably know more about it then me - I haven't exactly played the Melee characters much in Brawl (the new ones are just way more entertaining).
No problem man, I spend too much time on Smash. XD
Just a few points - That your opponent can't tech or recover properly (especially with Brawl's homing grab-the-ledge-two-miles-away system) isn't a good point to make - Anyone at tournament level will tech every time he wants to from an attack as obvious as G&W's downthrow, and they won't make a mistake like missing a sweetspot.
Yeah, I guess. I'll point something else out though. People don't use G&W's U-throw enough, and G&W is like the best juggler in Brawl thanks to his broken U-air which completely limits people to DIing off of the stage or air dodging if he does it right.
Did they upgrade his bucket between the games? Because in Melee, it was way too weak with anything short of three fully charged blasts from Samus or Mewtwo to be worth the bother, and the attack slow and obvious enough for no one to get hit by it except by being majorly outplayed - In which case anything would've hit them.
Yes, the Bucket is way better in Brawl. The collecting range is ridiculously huge. You can Bucket stuff that is way above, below, or behind you. Fox lasers get you a KO at about 60%. D-throw Techchasing into a Spill is godly. Pair up G&W with Zelda and turn on friendly fire, you get a team combination that is broken because Din's Fire gives 1HKO Buckets (yep, kills at 0% ftw. Watch this vid too. The guys playing kinda were a little Oil Panic greedy, but it was ownage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48cDctKCOm8 ).
And... IASA?
Interruptible As Soon As frames are a feature that has existed since Melee if I recall. Take Marth's D-tilt, you can repeatedly use the attack before the entire animation ends. It has an IASA window that starts on frame 20, so while it takes about twice as long for the entire attack to end, you can use 3 D-tilts in one second (Marth can also interrupt his D-tilt with other attacks too if I recall). Also in Melee, this was noticeable on G&W because he could spam Smash attacks without ever leaving the attack stance.
This works just the same in Brawl on various things. Ganondorf has many IASA frames on like his U-smash, Jab, and F-tilt that actually make him usable in Brawl. G&W has the same stuff on his attacks like he did in Melee which owns. Marth still has his D-tilt, yeah. I think when you take knockback, there are also IASA frames for air dodging out of knockback before you can perform other actions. All in all IASA frames are not quite the same as having low lag attacks, but are really nice options for working around the lag of attacks.
DDD yeah. Ike no. Ike sucks because his recovery is kinda bad, or at least easily gimped by characters that are high up on the tiers like Snake, and he gets outcamped easily.
DDD has great projectiles and a chaingrab though.
Hitting after a d-throw is a big guess, and guessing wrong leads to you losing all momentum. It's hardly all that big a factor.
It's really big if you're opponent can't reliably tech, so you can IMMEDIATELY D-smash most characters, or D-tilt, Jab -> regrab, etc. And guessing wrong doesn't hurt you AT ALL. Guessing right SCREWS your opponent if you land something big like a U-smash.
Besides, the D-throw can do the Fox D-throw spike. Situational, but win. Especially if you counterpick Skyworld.
What? It was a gigantic disjointed hitbox that lasted years. The fair had a short sweetspot then a long cooldown which was weak as hell. The nair never lost its power. Jump out, activate it and fall on your opponent. It's a lovely edgeguard.
I'll explain again. You couldn't spam the parachute, because the startup leaves you really open. That also made the Parachute difficult to combo into, so in Brawl that would have sucked massively because you wouldn't be able to land this move at all. For the same reasons, characters like R.O.B. can't directly score KOs despite having tons of range because all of his kill options are very easy to read.
The F-air is like way better undeniably because YOU CAN L-CANCEL IT. Also in Melee, diminishing returns only affects the damage of attacks, so there was no disadvantage to using the F-air in Melee. In Brawl you can't L-cancel, but G&W's DI is so insane you can weave away from people so they can't punish it. If you don't diminish it, it is one of the best killing aerial attacks in Brawl, which is HUGE.
You can't edgeguard in Brawl.
Yes you can actually. If your opponent misses the ledge by recovering too close to it, the D-tilt pushes them away. Also characters like Snake and Sonic can't do much about it.
You are better off ledgeguarding with aerial attacks usually, which G&W is one of the best characters at doing because of his amazing Up-B, but the D-tilt at least is big enough to occasionally deter people from the ledge.
And, essentially, "a bit more range" weighs up for every good thing the D-tilt had in Melee but lost in Brawl?
Yes it does. It as much range as Ike's sword, and it's ten times faster. Most characters cannot get past it, and this goes particularly for Olimar who would otherwise be one of G&W's harder matchups due to being hard to approach. Because it is so huge you can also deflect projectiles with it.
He's still slow though, which is kinda important for chasing your opponent while juggling them.
Wow, you're so wrong. G&W is like one of the fastest characters in Brawl overall.
His running speed is above average (which is faster than Mario, Bowser, Ivysaur, R.O.B. and someone else's running speed who I forgot). He has like the 4th best or so DI in the game. His Up-B lets him chase people vertically better than anyone else. He's super strong without the horrible lag Ike suffers, in fact he has like almost no ending lag on aerials except for the F-air.
People use the slow, strong energy projectiles when G&W got time to catch them now?
I sure wish Roy was still in the game, Flareblade would be the best attack in the game again.
Okay, so you're telling me you completely didn't know that G&W has these ridiculously good Smash attacks with amazing IASA frames? A forward Smash uncharged will kill Mario at 98% on FD. That is really freaking good if anything, and it's a lot faster than that super slow shit that Ike and Dedede use. G&W also has the 3rd strongest U-smash in the game, which can't be punished easily due to its IASA frames, and because he can techchase into it it's amazing. Not to mention the D-smash which is one of the best in the game.
The fact that G&W has the Bucket makes him the most fearsome opponent against anyone that uses energy projectiles, and that's a shitload of characters, and many of those characters are very good in Brawl but will easily fall to this guy. Say Pikachu, Zelda, Falco, even King Dedede and his Waddle Doos and Up-B stars.
Woo and yay.
Better yet, did you know that G&W can't be chaingrabbed by DDD?
People argue that EVERY character is "THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST" or "OMG HORRIBLE I LOST TO A LEVEL 1 CPU WORST CHARACTER EVER" on SWF. It's hardly a solid argument.
Many top professionals at SWF agree G&W is one of the best characters in Brawl. You can't really argue against that.
And several people got huge disjointed hitboxes now, everyone except Venosaur and Olimar got ridicolous recovery, there are no combos in Brawl, approach, I don't know, and well, sure, he's always had that.
G&W still outranges the majority of the cast. The people that outrange him do so in a significantly slower manner. No, not everyone has ridiculous recovery. Many recoveries are still very easy to gimp in Brawl with well timed ledgeguarding, and the ability to recover goes hand in hand with the ability to ledgeguard (the better you are at one, the better you are at the other). Combos do exist in Brawl, what are you smoking? That's been proven a long time ago, it's just combos are rarer. And no, most characters suck at approaching in Brawl due to the incredibly defense-oriented engine. G&W is one of few characters that is actually GOOD at approaching because he has tons of shit that is safe on block.
He does? I'd say he's gotten worse. Sure, his new downsmash is great (although its range and speed is still horrible), his new downthrow is excellent (although you can roll away before he can hit you), and taunting when getting that juicy #9 is kickass, but the loss of his best aerial (the parachute) and it getting replaced by a barely usable splashing-thingie hurt his edgeguarding, KO'ing and antiair abilities, losing the board (the downtilt) made his ground game suffer (it got crappy knockback now, and it doesn't feed straight into his (previously) great nair or, if you're feeling lucky, a judgement #9), and the improved recovery is hardly enough to push him above those flaws. He's still great fun to play, though.
Guess I should've split that paragraph into more parts.
Actually his Down-smash has a big hunk of invisible range, and it's not even that slow. It's fast enough to the point where you can D-throw into it if your opponent doesn't tech.
His D-throw leads to guarenteed combos on an opponent that doesn't tech as I said. You can Jab and regrab, you can D-tilt, I think you can even use Judgement. If they do tech, at least you can try to chase him down for another grab. Btw the throw also can spike if you grab someone next to the edge.
And the Parachute SUCKED in Melee. G&W's new N-air is actually a lot better than his old one. http://brawlcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=17313
His D-tilt is also better than it was in Melee contrary to popular belief. The hitbox is HUGE. I mean ridiculously huge, and the completely horizontal knockback can gimp some recoveries if you ledgeguard with this. Either way it's HUGE.
Also, he's THE best character in the game at juggling for several reasons like his amazing Up-B, his improved U-air, and also his B-air breaks shields.
Topping that is the fact his kill options are just plain overpowered. This includes his improved Down-B, which has huge collecting range, and gets shitloads of 1HKOs (yes, kills at 0% so many times).
Oh, and his shield FINALLY COVERS HIM.
Trust me he's easily the 3rd best character or so in the game. Everyone down at SWF agrees he's awesome. The only two characters that truly rival him at this point are Metaknight and Snake. G&W has like no real weaknesses in Brawl. He's got crazy priority, amazing recovery, great combos, great approaches, and great kill options.
Btw, keep in mind G&W was the 5th WORST character back in Melee.
Heh, I love this game. Sure, it's less competitive than Melee, but the reduced technical demand is in my favor since I suck with overly technical things.
What makes me happy: G&W RAPES in this game.
As for Target Smash, unbelievably, I like Brawl Target Smash more than Melee Break the Targets. I seriously think it's better to have five different stages that every character can access. I mean people already have completely different physics backing them up, so no two characters will have the exact same strategy for any given stage.
Contrary to what many people said about this movie, I found it very entertaining. For the most part, you're always on the move and always seem to have a very clear idea what your goal is. Add the fact that Charles Martinet is simply an awesome voice actor, you have a very fun and entertaining submission IMO. =)
Despite this not being a true platformer game, you managed to really show off some really neat tricks that obviously would be very hard to pull off in real time. So yeah, that impressed me.
Hey, just wondering if anybody else has discovered abuseable glitches or tricks in this game?
I dunno if you guys already know of this one. In missions level 5, the boss I think is Big Bombomb, whom I prefer to call King Bombomb. He can be killed really, really, fast thanks to some really cool oversights.
One, the boss often doesn't properly execute a proper Bombomb toss when you can't see King Bombomb on the top screen (so I believe that the throwing command is actually executed through the animation on the top screen somehow). For the record, this works best when I boost into him from the start and then turn right to collect an item. The point is I am looking away from him, and he tosses the bomb into himself somehow.
When he recovers from the first explosion, I toss the Bomb I've acquired into him. One more hit left.
This time, he jumps, and drops three bombs and an item box in the midst of them. I collect the item box and wait where it had originally spawned, since the Bomb explosions can't hit me there anyway. King Bombomb is supposed to land where the item box spawns, so he lands on me, the bomb I have explodes, kills him, and I win with 3 stars without having taken any damage since there wasn't enough time for the game to register my character's damage.
Pretty neat huh? Overall I think the game was pretty solidly designed, but could there be anything else you guys have seen?
I know already that you can determine whether a current random number is within the range of 1-50 or 51-100, but I'm just curious. Has anything been developed yet that allows you to read the exact RNG values for the GBA Fire Emblems? Or has anyone figured out a string of numbers that the game uses?
If anybody obsoletes this by anything less than 30 seconds I will stab myself.
less? If anything there is at MOST 5 seconds of improvement using the current route.
Also this won't be the last run submitted. New 120star in the works!
Oh yeah, forgot about the 120 star one. But my point is I'll be damned if this game can be broken any further, and a submission to obsolete this run in terms of time would hardly have any extra entertainment value to it. If anybody is going to TAS for fastest time possible, you either break the already incredibly tiny existing bits of the game that have so thoroughly been put through a blender, or you don't bother doing another TAS of the "fastest time possible" of SM64.
HHS wrote:
The power of the stars is restored to the castle... right? Aren't they Mario? Don't tell me you misplaced them again, you useless bastard! You can forget about that cake!
May this be the final SM64 submission. I believe we can officially say the game has been COMPLETELY broken. This submission gets accepted hands down. If anybody obsoletes this by anything less than 30 seconds I will stab myself.
I had a hunch you'd find a way to high speed abuse past DDD somehow, and what ho! You did! You guys win all internets!
Assuming in the late future, emulation improves, and even that game becomes an outdated legend, I was wondering what people knew about this game when aiming for the fastest time possible is the goal. After all, this is my most favorite RPG. It has a lot of unique techniques and enhancements, the option of a No-Damage run, and a great storyline to boot (which would unfortunately be skimmed through very briefly in a speedrun).
In particular, I don't know of any real glitches in this game, particularly not the abusable kind. And what would be the optimal badges to use? In particular, is quick change, an incredible badge in normal play, worth it in a speedrun? What star pieces should be collected, etc, etc?
Okay, here's my plan for a speedrun on console. Most of it would also be applicable to a TAS, so I thought you all might want to see it. Any polite criticisms are welcome.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=26J8DNMC
It all looks pretty good, but I dunno, something about leveling up got confusing around the Koopa Bros castle guide. It's more of just a readability error if anything. But anyway, *applauds*
Yeah, but it seems that we want to purposely have only one HP left so we can take advantage of Mega Rush. Also, you have to go an outlandish route to get the other lucky badges, I think.
Oh my....One HP plus 4 point attack power boost to all attacks + Power Bounce. lolwtf One-turn rape. That would be amazing to watch. Power Bounce can go infinitely on all enemies, right?
Question, where do you get the Fire Power badge? If my stipulation is correct, it could save time against Crystal King if nobody has to go an outlandish route to get it. Also, what about Power Rush badge? That one can be used, or can it?
Just curious, how is the RNG for misses is manipulated in this game?
Now wait, you still get EXP for using Bow's Spook/Fright Jars on enemies? Wouldn't it be a little more time efficient to run away otherwise?
Ah, the fuzzy fight is definitely a good place to use the Fire Flower. Or the Koopa bros battle (you need two fire flowers, or one + one pow block).
I dunno if it is just me, but I think Goombario has advantages in a faster attack that does a lot of damage, considering his headbonk does not use a "charging" action command and deals 6 base damage at ultra level(and multibonk which when used correctly can save a LOT of turns against hard enemies).
Is it faster to use Lakilester's Cloud to move on flat ground, or is it faster to spin-jump?
What levels should the player gain which stats? If I hazard a guess, I'd say FP, BP, then HP in the first three levels, but I don't know my strategies perfectly.
Question: Who should you power up? Powering up party members usually involves going an outlandish route to find a Super Block, and it takes a LOT of frames to power up someone.
I hope that maybe in the future, we'll have a better emulator for this. Mupen effs up with this ROM. But this is a speed run that I believe could be incredibly interesting considering its popularity and the amount of strategy that will be involved.
I don't think it is worth getting the Fire Flower. You can save frames by killing only one at a time which in exchange for time lost in scrolling through that monologue, also reduces time wasted in enemy phases, even though the battles will still take the same number of turns. But that is just a guess.