Posts for Acryte

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http://www.zeldaspeedrun.dreamhosters.com/oot/dungeons/deku.php You're gonna have to check out the tricks. Also use fast grabbing in order to clip through the GS faster if you aren't using a falling grab from the top while breaking the web. there's alot of stuff you're gonna have to figure out. Watching the old TAS may help alot, but you need to brief yourself with all the tricks and stuff. You may need to watch a few runs first and then find out what tricks they were doing, get on the irc and then have people who are knowledgeable help you with the route.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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"Calm down my son, behave yourself." ~snatch (jk grunzy)
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Swordless Link wrote:
<i>General Observation: Couldn't that new turn-able super slide save gobs of time? </i> <I>3. In the Forest temple, why was a super slide not used at the beginning of the 4 ghosts scene in the main room with the elevator? I know I've seen videos of getting into the elevator, why not slide into the middle of the room? (not the elevator) </I> The only way to superslide there involves Nayru's Love (which we wouldn't have) and using a bombchu in the previous room, so that the bomb explodes faster. It also means you go straight into the lift and therefore can't get the Fairy Bow, which is needed to beat the boss.
Umm... why not? You jumpslash when you are in it, ride it down. Then when you get on it, it goes all the way back up. Then you have immediate access to the elevator whenever you want. It's just faster to superslide to the boss room. Also the bombchu timing requires waiting, and the use of NL wastes time too. But you have access to the elevator, you can still go get fairy bow, it's just like if you had all 4 poes and the elevator is at the top. The lift ride wastes more time and the whole thing is much slower, but without going OoB it's technically the fastest trick
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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AKA wrote:
New trick which could save a little time, its called the super jump. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9JtMVTCnz18&NR=1 found by gamelinkx EDIT: This doesn't need to be done on a corner, just so long as the object can be hopped onto.
this isn't new but isnt old. but it is the first time I've seen the "leftover" momentum used for jumping. When you superslide, after you let off the shield button it pushes you in a direction that is opposite the joystick or something. This is especially noticeable when on slippery surfaces (i was trying to use this before to get to ganon early without infinite sword in a much easier way by sliding off the top of the slippery hill and then hover and backflip into shield dropped bombchu boost... the angle of the slide was VERY noticeable because is changes with the joystick direction and is VERY sensitive) That leftover force can be used for many things... clipping through walls, etc. But when it pushes you against something that link can "hop onto" or hop to grab then the leftover force just pushes you past the object similarly to when you hop to grab something and press R with fast runnning cheats. Unfortunately it's less useful than a megajump, hover superslide, megaflip or bomb boosted hover. It can only be done with low hoppable objects while megaflips etc can be done without that, and bombboosted hover can also have groundjumps stored... mega jumps get way more height, and hoversuperslides are the same but don't require an extraneous object. couple that stuff with the fact that you can stand on pretty much anything you can grab, and that it has no options like infinitesword or groundjumps that can be used later on in it and it's generally not very applicable. But yes, that is one way you can use the leftover force from a superslide before it dissipates. You can even use this force to clip through walls that a normal superslide cannot.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Interesting test, though if it comes down to single frames then it's merited of course since its a TAS. Also make sure that there is no amount of backrunning time to where it starts making gains on the sidehops because backrun is slow to start and then constant afterwards, so if its a shorter distance, it may be quicker with sidehops still depending on how it all times out. Just something to be aware of. AKA, when you emu tested it, did you go frame by frame or just fullspeed? because you can easily lose 3 seconds over the span of hyrule field if you were to mess up your sidehops a few times.
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Swordless, it looks good, but I think you can save 1 or 2 more seconds by falling farther before you enter or reenter the water. The room should already be loaded so you can probably fall all the way down to the water in the room below, or much closer probably.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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you know you don't need ladder zip right? Climb the vines and then use fast grab on to skip a rung. Then open the chest. Afterwards jump down on the platform thing and then quickly fall off it and move under it. It will crush you and spawn you at the door. Unsure if it's faster tho.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Make sure when you are gonna climb that wall you pull slingshot while backrunning, then backflip and shoot the wallskulltula with it during mid backflip instead of running and then aiming and killing it later. Or dekunut use could be faster provided you make it up fast enough (havent tested this). mybe i could make a vid of this, not right now though since its 10 am and i have yet to go to sleep....
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Yessir, use the staircase bombhover method to get over him. Should take an esitmated... 7 bombs probably. Dashiznawz - yeah I forgot that once we changed the route to steal epona we needed shield for the swordglitch + bombhover. 1. Go to Kakariko Village + Get Odd Potion (grab shield) how bout that?
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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wish I was at home so I can test stuff out, but you said BA also works w/ Trade items? If you use Cojiro it would give all medallions except for fire I think... then after that we could use BA for boss key... claim check could give us all but shadow. then it comes down to which one is faster to get... shadow or fire. Take note that whenevery you die it reverts any B button item from BA to a deku stick (so we can get bottles back on B, etc).
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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For gerudo and mask of truth you can always try changing the values and looking at what it changes. Gerudo Mask:8011A66E ???? Mask of Truth:8011A66F ???? (it will be inventory related... on equipment screen most likely) I'd test it but I am not at home.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Very cool, keep up the research.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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how can we watch the addresses? I have wanted to do that but I'm not too skilled w/ an emulator. Or do you just mean change them and look for the changes?
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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No, this is for an all medallions run. It can get all but light (but then agian how do we get light...if we have been an adult already...) Dashiznawz not sure, needs to be worked out.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Nice, that is sweet.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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no that is not where I get lost lol Its that I do NL on c-right and ocarina items to get half lonlon on B. But now I have half lonlon on B, how do I update my medallions + change the B button at the same time w/out losing half milk? I put goron sword on c-right and drink it but I have an empty bottle and update to an empty bottle's medallions... I can refill milk and w/ nayru on B I can drink it again and get a half milk off a full one but I d OR ARE YOU GOING THROUGH TIME? (afterwards that is) to get full lonlon ob B then you equip and drink half?
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Sweet, but how do you update B again w/ goron sword on C-right and without Nayru's love there? And I thought bottle drinking glitch only works when the bottle is in your hand? To get it there you have to drink it, and isn't it only going to update B button w/ it if you use it on the B button as the 2nd button?
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Cool. What did you use? Did you just use the half milk bottle thing that you can do off any set of 2 bottles? Because that wouldn't require going back in time, or does that leave only an empty bottle... edit: yeah I forgot its just 1A. I had tried to use this before by just inputting codes but it just drinks the whole thing :p
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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thanks, I appreciate the time you've taken explaining this.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Pointers aren't an unnecessary goaround. Multiple bottles don't NEED pointers to work. You could have also have every bottle have its own VALUE. However, there's proof that this isn't the case. When you equip a bottle to C, everything the game would know is its value without a pointer. It would just change the bottle on C when you catch something, not inside your inventory. By every bottle having a different value, you would be able to make conclusions as to which slot it comes from. Or by using a thing, I and lots of other people call pointer, where they store the address where that bottle comes from. Which is what they did.
I like that explanation, let me give it some thought.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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You can explain BA entirely without using the word "pointer", just by adding values and writing stuff to addresses. But by adding something to an address, everything you do is changing a pointer to point to a different address.
Okay so then since pointers are the exact same thing as hex but with an unnecessary goaround then what were you saying earlier about bottles needing pointers to slots because there are multiple of them? Because it doesn't even matter if you have 100 million bottles if you have 100 million addresses where the bits are stored then each address has the item stored independantly. AND every other item that is in that main menu has it's data stored in exactly the same way, so I'm wondering what you mean when you are talking about bottles being exclusive when it comes to pointers. And that being the cause for BA. The only reason im arguing this w/ you was because you had said it has nothing to do w/ adding +44 to hex on c-right and that bottles required some exclusive stuff w/ pointers that other stuff didn't when to me in hex, evey item in the exact same thing but w/ a different value in its bit address.
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when programming I'm sure they use a specific number system to store values. Hex is useful because it minimizes digits and therefore saves more bytes because it requires less bits to display larger numbers. The game stores hex values. It can read that number however it wants by converting that number to a binary equivalent, etc. But when data is being stored, uniform storage for things like variables is a good idea. do you know how a "cheating device"works? It takes locations in memory where variables are saved, and then it edits the data that is stored at that memory address. Now, this is exactly the same thing that BA is doing but w/ a different scope. all the codes you can use in the gameshark ARE THE EXACT SAME CODES you use w/ BA and that BA produces. You can plug them into a gameshark and they will work 100%. This is part of being able to test code. When the gameshark changes the data stored in a location in memory, it is passing HEXADECIMAL values into that location. Believe it or not. I completely understand what you are saying about pointers and just because it seems like a logical structure for a game programmer to use, doesn't mean it was indeed used. Unless of course you have seen the source code and can vouch for it. But I am wondering why you refuse to believe that it is operating in hex when it is mere mathematics. There is no assuming involved. Since it works w/ complete functionality in hex why would you assume that it is in fact working in another way which is relatively unproveable?
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You don't have to use hex to understand how it works. I hope that clears things up a bit. The game never does any +44 stuff to get to your inventory. It uses y aka the base pointer to your inventory. EDIT: How did you get Magic Beans to that slot? Does it work without a cheating device? It's also annoying to see that Bottles turned into Adult Link's items aren't equipable as YL. Or do they just look grey, but are equipable? Would make more sense.
It's simple. For each item SLOT they have hardcoded which places in the menu are useable by YL or adult link. That is why when you do 21bottles, etc. you can't use one's on adult link's place and vice-versa. That entire game is working in hex, how can you talk about the specifics of something as complicated as bottle adventure and not use Hex when Bottle adventure USES HEX at it's most base levels. How did I get magic beans to that slot? Just like you can get ANY ITEM onto ANY SLOT in the inventory. You take that slot's location in memory. That slot has bits stored there. You change the bits to whatever the desired item is in the slot. That is why I am saying this stuff about pointers is completely irrelevent. If you use pointers as some way for your mind to understand how it works outside the game then that seems fine but that is not how the game appears to be working at all. For what reason do you think that Zora mask and Goron mask can edit the sword/shields? Why do you think that EVERY SINGLE ITEM ON THAT HEX LIST's values +44 when on C-right change EVERY SINGLE VALUE at a memory address corresponding to that value? Bottles do not require pointers because there are more than 1 of them. You can have any item in any slot in the menu because all you have to do is add the bits into that memory address where you want them and then you have a fully functional bottle. I thought I maybe didn't understand what you meant by pointers but now I realize that I do and I must say that it is not correct. Please take some time on an emu testing these things that I have shown you and you will realize that all these things are directly related. I don't even need to use the game to test C-right item combos w/ anything because I know the hex and I can CALCULATE it exactly like the game does. AND HOW DO THESE POINTERS EXPLAIN EDITING VALUES THAT ARE NEVER LINKED TO THE MENU AT ALL? Like Link's wallet size, smallkeys in temples, or whatever else. Please notice that every code you are using is 8011AC_ _ - 00?? this is how the game is running. BA allows us to change those 2 hex values after the "AC" to whatever we want. the value that is input here is the hex for the item's ID + 44. The ?? is the hex for the item caught in the bottle. This becomes stored at that memory address. We are directly editing memory addresses. THIS IS NO DIFFERENT THAT A GAMESHARK. In fact it operates in the EXACT same way except we have to manipulate our items to manipulate the hex values we want passed into specific locations. I don't see how pointers can be "viewed" or even thought to exist w/out providing anything observable to constitute the idea. It is working in hex. All of the values stored in memory are hexadecimal values that are either read in hex bits or converted to binary to represent a set of group values. ____________________ about how you can get magic beans to a bottle slot W/ BA: You can't get anything besides a bottle w/ the Bottle B's current contents onto any place that is in the equippable C items area because: take any Item on C-right's hex (13 for example which is Nayrus Love), now add +44 to that. this is 57 aka the 2nd bottle slot. NOW, what you catch in a bottle determines the bits that are stored to that memory address. So, if I catch a bug (1D) then it is the equivalent of 8011AC57 001D. You will now have a bottled fish in the 2nd bottle place. Here is the thing... unless you can get some other item on B that isn't a bottle and still have the game update memory addresses like it does w/ a bottle on B, you can't get anything other than a bottle or a bottled item to a place in the inventory. The reason it works for quest status items is because it takes whatever is stored and doesn't use the hex value as an item's hex, so the hex for a bug (1D) becomes 11101 and determines whether we have things using simple 1s and 0s. This means that we can alter things because it doesn't reat the 1D from the bug as being a bug, but uses the memory stored at that address differently.
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LOOK, this is what I mean... you can have any item in any slot. It doesn't matter what item it is. If they want to have a bottle in that slot all they have to do is change the code to 0014 at the memory address for that slot. It doesn't matter if you have more than 1 of the same bottle. Every slot has it's own bit addresses for it and that determines what is there. You edit those addresses, and you can edit what is in them... if you want to know what is in Bottle #1 ... you just check 8011A656. If you want to know if you don't have bottle #3 you just check the bits in 8011A58 and see if the value stored there is FF (empty slot). Here you can see that you can have any item in any slot. It doesn't matter if it is a bottle or not. All the game does is looks at that location in memory and checks the value stored there. Every item is individual whether or not it is the same type of item simply because every slot has it's OWN location in memory. Here is a picture from my guide I was constructing: as you can see, each location in memory is written in red. The hex values for the default item there are stored as hex values at that location in memory. If you change the value at a memory address then you change the item there. There is no need for "pointers". THis is where I am confused as to why they are necessary or even observably there in the first place. The only thing this entire menu is, is just a bunch of memory addresses and the bits that are stored in them. When you grab a deku stick in the game for the 1st time, all it does is have it hardcoded into the game to add 00 (hex for deku stick) to 8011A644 (location in memory for it). That is ALL it is. If you pick up bottle #3 and it has a letter in it... all the game does is runs code to change the value stored at the memory address corresponding to the menu where bottle 3 normally is (aka 8011A658) to 001B (hex for letter in bottle). That is all it takes to add a bottle into the inventory. It doesn't matter how many they add or what item you are adding. This is why you can add things like "Kokiri Forest" or "Light medallion" and stuff into the menu even though they were never designed to be put there. All you do is change the bits that are stored at that memory address of where you want it in the menu to ones that give the desired item you want there.
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No, I wasn't critiquing your post, I was just saying some important things that explain it in full because the goal is to be able to test it out w/out using the game to do so even. W/out knowing something like items hex + 44 you won't even know which location in memory is being changed. And that the reason why the shift starts happening in the c0right to B stuff is simply because of having each item's hex allocated and when it doubles up, 2 are on the same place but the hex increases 1 and +44 is gonna give something different but as far as doing something like just looking at menu places, the menu place didn't change, so that is why it get's staggered. I was simply clarifying why things happen. Cool, I din't understand what you meant by "pointers". That was lingo that I didn't know. But I still don't know why you think only bottles use pointers to slots or whatever. Could you explain that better? Also this: "the value of the item on C-right is on that place instead." Especially when cleft and cdown have closer memory allocations then c-right. Oh and I was thinking that one of the things that is also important is that when you update a bottle you don't have the game GIVES you one. Which may be the reason why it runs the code 8011A6xx xxxx, idk it was one theory. I was thinking that since it doesn't do anything special to have a bottle on B, but only when it is updated does it ever do anything special, that updating it when it doesn't have an allocated place for it in the inventory for it to be added, that every time it updates it runs the code to give it to you and that we somehow have a link between C-right that can alter the code. idk it was something I was thinking about. But nothing special happens on C buttons w/ the same thing because it is just the C button bottle that is there which is from the menu and the one on B is not linked to the others in that way... But then again if you could clarify pointers on C buttons Vs, B that'd be great. Thanks for that explanation of Ocarina items, that has helped me understand that alot better. Also, why does BA work differently in MM? Bottle on B works but we don't have a link to ANY of the C buttons at all. It can only change the item in slot 1 into a bottle w/ what we have on B, but we can't maniulate the slot it points to. Mainly though, why do you say only bottles use pointers to slots. Why is that? I don't understand what the use of a bottle is that is would have that and not any other items... each bottle has it's own inventory slot it is defaulted to. Each one thusly has it's own location in memory where the bits are stored. What do they need a pointer for when it comes to bottles vs other items? Are you saying because you have the type "bottle" and it is written to 4 different slots (the same item) so when you write it it has a pointer designating where the bottle is to be written? But can't you just have it like any other item since you know only a bottle is in 56, 57, 58, and 59, that those are the places in memory and that the bit address stored there updates the value (which it does). IDK I am confused now over how I am understanding pointers and their purpose vs just looking at a value in a certain address and changing it (which was what I was doing before). I was just under the impression that whatever the hex value of 44 + the item's hex on c-right pointed to a location in memory and that the value in that location was what was put on B... so for the megaton hammer example you brought up... megaton hammer slot (defaulted) is 53 in memory, aka 8011A653 and putting a bottle in that slot makes the value at that address change from 11 to 14. Then when you put lens of truth on C-right it's hex is 0F. 0F+44 = 53. So it reads from the memory address 8011A653 whos stored value there is now 0014. so it writes 14 to B and you now have a bottle on B. I can't seem to comprehend what you mean by pointers because either I am just confusing it w/ something I already understand and just can't see it, or I do understand it, and it seems superfluous. Similarly Kazooie has found that if you have goron mask or zora mask on C-right and you change your equips around, the binary to hex values of the respective equipment from that location (6C or 6D depending on the mask) will change what you have on B to that hex value, aka the same as the previous hammer example.
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