Posts for Acryte

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That's not quite how it works. K so... yes you have charts that list the hex values of each item. Now, when you put an item on C-right you take that item + 44(hex) which also happens to be the location in memory for deku sticks and counts as the 1st menu place in the C-button equips menu. Now, lets say you have goron mask on C-right. 28+44 = 6C (which edit's tunics and boots). Now, you have codes... like 8011A6?? ???? this code is used for ADDING items into the inventory, and this is the code that is being run and modified using BA. If the items are high enough, they can sometimes roll over the +44 w/ FF or something and make it a 8011A7 too but that is besides the point. So, basically 6C is also the location in memory where the tunics and boots bits are stored. in a gameshark we have this:8011A66C 00xy the last 4 numbers are actually the hex values of what you are storing into the memory location at 6C. Now, let's say you catch a bug right? The bug's hex is 1D. We take that number and convert it to binary in separate digits because each one is stored to one of those bits in 00xy. y is tunics, x is boots. Now 1 in binary is 1. we mirror that which is just 1 (menu reads right to left) and then we get _ _ _ = 1 0 0 AKA we have kokiri boots. and for D it is 1101 and mirrored we hae _ _ _ = 1 0 1 and a trailing 1. Since there is a 4th spot under swords for broken goron knife, if these were swords it would have broken goron sword there for every value past 7 (even for ones where biggoron sword should be there because the trailing bit). But these are tunics so we don't need to know that. we will have kokiri and zora tunic. also you choosing which items and when you advance the hex +1 value and stuuff doesn't make sense because you are just looking at results and making a formula. That is not the true formula. here is the reason why it is like that... you take deku sticks, etc all the way up to din's fire and slingshot... for each of those items, they have 1 place in the inventory (aka 1 place in memory for the item in that slot). 00 -> 44, 01 -> 45, 02 -> 46. get it? but once it gets to Ocarina of time, there can be 2 values there, so what it does is the 1st one get's that location in memory, and the next one advances to the next slot. Ocarina of time gets bombchu slot. That is fine until it hit's hookshot/longshot, which makes it happen again. Past that point every item has it's own place so it is just +2 at that point, but you need to understand WHY. Ever wonder why we can't get anything than what is inside the bottle on B to refresh into our inventory? Check this out... 14 is hex for empty bottle, 00 = empty deku stick on C-right. 00+44 = 44 aka the place in memory for deku sticks and the deku stick's default location in the menu. Now, the content's of the bottle specify what bits are written to that address. 14. so it writes a bottle to that location in memory. Here is the thing... until we find out EXACTLY WHY only bottles work for BA and the link between them and 00 aka dekunuts, and why it uses the 1st memory place that corresponds to them as the +44, then we have to use bottles. Anything you catch in a bottle can only put a bottled item's hex into that memory location. If we get something else on B instead, it won't update and check C-right and change memory addresses anymore, so at best the most we can get in our inventory is a bottled item. The reason why it works for quest status and works for equipment is because each of those have group values. 1 place in memory stores the value that affects multiple things. Like all medallions have 1 location in memory, etc. It doesn't read the bits stored there as a Hex number for an item ID, it reads them as binary to tell whether they have certain items or not. SO, BA can edit those easily. if you want hex values:http://zso.krahs-emag.com/codes/codeinfo.html#controlact Limitations: because we know that it uses +44 onto the item on C-right's hex, the lowest code that our current BA understanding can produce is: 8011A644 ????. But everything under 44 cannot be reached... AKA putting items on Cleft, C-right, C-down, Directly to B, editing Magic, editing rupees. These all have locations in memory that are BELOW 44. So currently we can not achieve these. Unless we find a way to change how BA reads the + to something lower, or even 0... but to do that we must UNDERSTAND perfectly how it works. Don't generalize, you must take it down to every bit that is passed. notes: Deku sticks are not the only way to get a bottle on B. Don't think that the 00 defaulted value is special and causes it. Any item you try to take out but can't, or any item that cannot be physically taken out into link's hand will do it. Deku nuts, 0 bombs, 0 bombchus, (magic doesn't work at all and has no effect), lens of truth. These all make bottle on B when using Ocarina items. Here is the thing though. If you use a gameshark to edit the code directly and place a bottle on B w/out even using Ocarina items, it works perfectly. SO, we know that the way we got it onto B has no effect over how it performs. What we need to understand: Relation to c-right and the 1st slot for the location in memory for menu... 44 Relation to B and C-right when bottle is on B Why only Bottle on B passes the 44+item Hex to the modifier code and allows us to place bits there. And yes I know what the individual bits before A6 seem to do and edit. And no, they don't have anything to do w/ it.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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I'm doing some research for BA. I'll construct a guide type thing soon explaining how bottle adventure works and stuff so that anyone can understand. I'm sure it will be helpful. ________________________________________ EDIT: Thanks goes out to Kazooie, Jay the ham, and ZSO for all the tables and stuff that have helped me out w/ understanding BA. Their work has made it easy to see what gives you what in BA because they have tested alot of the combinations (especially Kazooie). Through testing tonight I finally figured out exactly how items on C-right affect items on B, and exactly how certain other things work. Pretty much every single thing about BA except for the issue as to WHY specifically in the code Bottle on makes C-right linked to it and makes it go crazy. BUT i now understand it alot better. Mainly, I have been looking for a way to make it so that I don't have to literally test out every combination to find out what I get on B or in my inventory. For every item we can put on C-right, for every quest status item we can edit, and for every equipment (left and right) that we can edit, I know exactly how it works in relation to B and/or inventory updates down to each location in memory and each byte that is stored for it. I don't even have to test anything out at this point. I can simply take an item, and say "if i put it on c-right" this is exactly what I will get on B, or exactly what I will be changing in the inventory, etc. even if I had never tested the combination out before, and I know WHY it is that way... WHY broken goron sword gives medallions and not something else, WHY when it is on C-right and you catch a fish it gives you forest and shadow and spirit and not some other combination of medallions, and why other things work too. I will start working on the guide. I still have 3 things to figure out though. Then I can concentrate on making the guide fully complete. Then I will release it. w/ my newly obtained knowledge I now know all of the current limitations of BA. Ever wonder why you can only get to a bottle of what is on B in your inventory using RBA and not some other item? I know why. Unfortunately it is impossible to give ourselves magic unless we find some new thing in BA that we have never even discovered yet that can subtract from the values of other stuff or unless it can change some very important values...
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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What would be the point of having the master sword when we have deku nuts? Definitely won't open the door though. Use a gameshark to give you the stuff and see. It is essentially the exact same thing... changing values in the memory w/out actually obtaining it.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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I have found new stuff concerning bit addresses and items on c-right, item amounts specifically and other weirdness. I have yet to put my finger on it but I'll share my findings. Vid is uploading. Sorry for the shitty quality but my comp wasn't near the TV so I recorded it to VHS and then captured it from the VHS tape... I also used rewind while it wasn't stopped (because I don't care...) oh well. Youtube is being retarded so im uploading it to filefront. I have another vid im gonna upload too... http://files.filefront.com/Acryte___New_Glitching4_cavi/;7521762;;/fileinfo.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dxNNvzufWM You can also cast NL or DF but YOU DON"T CAST THE SPELL! You just do the motions but no fire or spell comes out... and you can pause halfway into the spell and swap items like NL to DF and then it will pull out your sword and shield and you look funny while you do the motions... Oh and when you are stuck running like that w/ your arm out... listen to this... YOU CANNOT BE DAMAGED OUT OF IT YOU CANNOT GET OUT OF IT W/ ANY ITEMS OR CHANGING OF EQUIPMENT HOVERBOOTS RUN AT A FASTER PACE YOU CANNOT JUMP OUT OF IT (lol he just jumps but stays like that) YOU CANNOT SWIM OUT OF IT (He keeps swimming but like that) I will currently see what happens if you exit the area like that.... NO Nayru's love is not required for this. No my cartridge isn't screwed up. I beat this NORMALLY and in order a long time ago. I tried this on other saves w/out doing anything special just to see if it is something that normally occurs. This is not the case.... here is the explanation: 1) I try to pull bombs... It keeps putting them away. I have to mash the trigger to pull out a bomb... this is not normal. 2) I have magic but cannot use it (this can be done w/out Nayrus love too by using backflips and quickspinning when you land or something idk... I have seen it, and I have done it). 3) I cannot use the magic but then again I can sometimes... and then I can't again. 4) Sometimes my bow acts like it has no arrows but then works and then stops working again. 5) Sometimes when I draw my hookshot and hold certain buttons it freezes link pulling out his hookshot while running in a straight line. I have no clue whether it can skip cutscenes of any sort or any kinds of effects it might have. my understanding or something: Here is what I've been using to activate it (not sure whether it works or not, and some of these things may be extraneous) Start in ToT as adult w/ Nayrus love on c-down and bombs on C-right and bow on C-left. 1) Mount + Dismount Epona and then fire off all 50 arrows into its neck 2)backrun over to LonLon ranch and catch a poe in bottle#1 after killing it w. the hookshot (equipped to c-left). 3) Now doing superslides and groundjumps I've seen when I had 29 bombs, this thing where you can't take out bombs. 4) Use Nayrus love and charge a spin attack. Run around and wait for Nayrus to end. Unleash it. Now... sometimes you don't have Magic quickspins. but the charge still has magic. Do more quickspins and grab arrows, notice that every once in a while the bow can't shoot... Also sometimes quickspins don't have magic and STAY that way. do a bunch of normal sword attacks and quickspins... sometimes you have magic again... now do charge attacks... sometimes you don't have magic again... idk... STILL IN THE PROCESS OF FIGURING THIS OUT. I think it has something to do w/ bombs on C-right and bit addresses.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Damn its been a long time, its kakariko huh. Oh well.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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The guard speech takes forever, but the real factor besides that is waiting for day, learning the songs and also the damn cutscenes... the old TAS did spirit early in 8 mins, lets see how long it takes for well chus to be aquired. Oh, and you can save some time if you just grab magic after dodongos and then use the owl to warp to lake hylia for the gold scale + warp to jabu jabu (saves time when getting lullaby).
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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After I go to work and grind out some HW tonight I'll start testing again...
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Comicalflop, all you need to do it press deku stick or slingshot and then just time how you swap it.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Yes maam. for hours on end. And w/ the bubble. And w/ pushing the floormaster to different places and w/ pushing the bubble (which teleports onto it's path again by the way) and w/ that bridge in the lower section. Also using cheats to have iron boots on link, I realized you can't enter the crawlspace even if you are standing at the bottom of the water. Onlw w/ lowered water can you enter it... so heh... this is gonna suck. I'd test it out but I'm gonna start testing to find out how I did the thing where my 0 bombs disabled my magic use that happened like 5 months ago.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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There is 1 more way it may be possible.... I have been trying it for hours but to no avail. It basically entails using jumpslashes and straddling the edge between the log and the part that covers the hole where you can climb down to the bombchus... IDK, I guess I'm hoping to glitch into a grab on the vines. We must find another way....
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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oh wow. that's what I did w/ comical flop but I didn't think the water could take you up top. Very nice. AKA - what are we trying to skip that for, just skipping the cutscenen because it's faster? It's very short and if it takes any preparation or slowing down (slingshot + deku) etc. it's not going to save any time.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Yep it won't work on that switch, even as kid w/ iron boots you can't press it... you need to be holding an item I'm pretty sure since it isn't based on weight alone. Hey kazooie, good to see you. And early well saves time. Then instead of going there we can alter the route to go to kakariko. No skulltulas right? It'll be interesting to see what you've found, me and fluffy have searched long and hard and couldn't do it. so congrats. Basically it means we do kakariko bottle, and grab the bombchus there. Then we do Dodongo's. Then hylia and grab gold scale and bug. and then we can go to do jaabu and probably grab odd mushroom last and then head to ToT. Idk we'll have to asess the route to make up for it but it definitely saves time.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Nope. only bombchus on c-right give you bombchus in the inventory. It is useless. Same for bombs.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Well, I don't think we really need them, its a detour to get it, and we need to have bugs in our bottle... plus, we don't need to do BA 2 times... BUT... Use BA to get back from spirit w/ bombhover and you can do early spirit in a SS if you use BA... but I guess it's not even worth it anyways if yopu are using BA since it's all skipped using BA anyways, but at least BA SS can have a very similar route and can even go sub 2:30.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Here is how far I can get w/ lowered water level. With the normal waterlevel I did sword glitch w/ that green bubble and managed to get all the way to like... about half an ingame foot from being able to backflip through the ceiling and out of bounds, but here is the thing... it takes a ton of time for that bubble to circle around, and that damn bubble is just a tiny bit TOO low for you to take it high enough to get over the wall. This cannot be done. The likelike cannot be used to get through wall, I have tried for hours. The damn bridge in the lower section has a part of the celing that is vulnerable and you can go through to probably get up into the water... here is the thing... you can't get up there, and you don't have enough force to get through it w/out either levitation or bombhovering closer. I have tried a ton.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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MWL... I have managed to get through a wall w/ wallclipping and into the water behind it.... HERE IS THE LAMEST PART... It took about 30 seconds to do from entering the temple, but... it requires lowering the water.... and if you lower the water, you can't get to the chest... DAMNIT.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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I agree w/ hitting cuccos. I do the same thing in Minish cap, etc. It's a great tactic since they run in a ptryy straight line after getting hit... though it will be hard to get frame perfect results do to the randomness over time and hard to predict movements. Also remember you have a slingshot, you can shoot them w/out having to go all the way over to them. AKA - Its simple really, you empty a bottle and fill it again to change things in the inventory. Here's a really old vid I made about it. Oh, and please tell me guano plans to finish the current run (It will look waay cooler in the adult section) FIERCE I just saw your shiek vid. "You must finish the forest temple to perform bottle adventure for light arrows making it impossible to skip all adult temples." Heh.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Doing Dodongo's w/ bracelet is slow as hell because you don't have early bombchu and you have to go to zelda, learn lullaby, get the letter form zelda, talk to the guard and listen to his long-ass speech, traverse sacred forest meadow, learn saria's song, go back to goron city, watch Darunia dance for 4 minutes... it's definitely not worth it. But thanks for the suggestion, its always good to know why we aren't doing things instead of assuming, because that is how potentialy faster routes can be overlooked. So, I did some timing, I'm almost sure that 2a is faster, basically because 2b requires going from the exit point that epona is at after stealing it, to kokiri forest, and then going back to that point and getting on epona. That is 3 movements. The other one has 2, re don't recover ground. We go to kokiri and then to lonlon. 2a is faster.
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Yauty - thx for that, I think we should use the scarecrow one then. Great call. Tub - BA requires going back in time, it uses drawing the mastersword to update the B button which changes what is on B through what is on C-right which acts as a pointer to an item in the menu or an item amount in the menu that is usually changeable. Reverse BA doesn't. It's using catching and releasing things from the Bottle on B to update the inventory. The item on C-right acts as the catalyst for the general type of thing that is altered in the menus, while the certain item being caught in the bottle changes the specific item type that is refreshed into the inventory. So in short, No, it doesn't require going back in time at all. Oh, and make sure when you do superslides, you do it the hard way. Backrun constantly and then before the bomb blows, shielddrop it and roll forwards into it to do the superslide. That way you aren't losing time you could be moving as you wait on the bomb. Using backrun w/ manual superslides is tough because the timing for the roll can make it go sideways if you don't time it right (though this is a TAS so who cares about the difficulty lol) Well... is 2a faster than 2b? when I get home I can make a map and time it out and do side by side comparison for 2a vs 2b
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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Nah, I was pretty sure epona doesn't disappear. Tested it out, and she doesn't. The route seems pretty solid except for those areas which have choices, but if anyone has ideas for rejigging the orders or omiting and adding things to make it faster then please discuss away.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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THANKS Comicalflop, AKA, and Yautycakes for the route. (Last Updated on 4/28/07 @ 22:37 Route Changes: Child: 1. Get Sword + Shield 2. Beat Deku Tree [Grab Slingshot] 3. Early Spirit (Bombchus) (we get bombbag in dodongos, I think it's faster than silver gauntlets from spirit because of the extra cutscene) 4. Kokiri Forest -> Lost Woods -> Goron City -> Death Mountain Trail -> Dodongo's Cavern (Beat it normally... groundjump to switch, early Bomb Bag, and light eyes) 5. Kakariko Bottle 6. Superslide to Gerudo Valley (Odd Mushroom) 7. Gerudo Valley River -> Hylia (Get Caught) 8. Gold Scale + Letter in Bottle 9. Hylia -> Zora's Domain 10. Jabu Jabu (Jumpslash to Enter) 11. Beat Jabu Jabu 12. Grab OoT and pull Master Sword Adult: 1. Go to Kakariko Village + Get Odd Potion 2. Kakariko -> Hyrule field -> Superslide to Kokiri Forest -> Lost woods -> Get Poachers Saw -> Superslide to Lon Lon 3. Steal Epona (off the left side fence) 4. Ride Epona To Lake Hylia (Epona can jump fences and save time vs climbing the ladder) 5. Catch Bug + Bombhover to Fishing Pond + Steal Rod and get Bottle on B (we need to see how many this takes) 6. Use Reverse BA to get Warp Songs (Prelude + Lullaby + Serenade + Nocturne) 7. Ride Epona to Gerudo Valley 8. Jump across Broken Bridge + Get Broken Goron Sword 9. Use Reverse BA to get Forest, Spirit, Shadow Medallions (if bug is used you also get the Water Medallion too) 10. Use Nocturne of Shadow to warp to Graveyard + Go to Magic Fairy Fountain 11. Warp to ToT using Prelude + Get Light Arrows 12. Use Reverse BA to update 25 Arrows into the arrow quantity. (Note that you get 1 shot and then since you have no bow or quiver, then it will 0 the value. This step can be done whenever) 13. See Rainbow Bridge Cutscene and go to Ganondorf 14. Equip MS 15. Kill Ganon _________________________________ Instructions for Reverse BA: [Key: C=Child A=Adult] A.6 -> B[Bug], C-Right[Poacher's Saw]. Fish is fine too but you won't learn Nocturne so you have to grab a bug sometime before trading poacher's saw or else you lose Prelude of light by using empty bottle to learn it. A.9 -> B[Bug], C-Right[Broken Goron's Sword]. If the Bug is used instead of a Fish then you also get the Water Medallion too (Not like it matters). A.12 -> B[Bug],C-Right[Bottled Letter]. If the Bug is used instead of a Fish then you get 29 arrows updated instead of 25 w/ the Fish (not like it matters since you only get 1 shot) Description: Bottle Adventure is about using the items on C-right to get things onto the B button by traveling forwards and backwards in time. Reverse Bottle Adventure is about using the Bottle on B w/ different things you can catch to update things into your inventory that are determined by both the item on C-right (which determines the type) and the item on B (which determined the quantity of the adjusted amount, or the specific things that are altered in the menu). Steps: Put the required item on C-right, then Catch the specified object in the Bottle that is on B (or empty it and catch it), in order to update your inventory appropriately.
Wisdom; Power; Courage.
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I thought you couldn't do bombchu bowling till after dodongos...
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The answer for epona early is simple, you do it when you would do the hoverboots early (aka when you have a sword to fight dead hand) aah fuck I overlooked getting into dodongos lol. I knew I'd do something like that. The route will need work then.
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AKA - Firstoff we need to go to Gerudo as a child to get the mushroom. We also need to go to gerudo as an adult in order to give the poacher's saw to the head carpenter. How it saves time: We complete half of shadow, and then go to ganondorf. That is all we have to do temple-wise in the adult section. Since Spirit temple is now skipped entirely, we have no need for early bombchus from spirit because it wastes time. Time to get there + requiem cutscene (unless you go all the way to gauntlets exit) > the time saved in dodongo's alone. Mainly because we end up having bombs for Zora's anyways and so we only lose time in Dodongo's Cavern as a child... BUT we save time by skipping early spirit anyways. The extra diversion to go to gerudo valley doesn't matter much because we only spend 1/3 of the time we would already be spending on early spirit anyways. Good call about Epona early, however, I was thinking hoversuperslide might be faster but I'm thinking epona early is faster though simply because we already have to go to gerudo again and the time taken to run to LonLon is just on the way there (from Lost Woods) provided we don't come from Lake Hylia warp and just go to ToT or something... I'll look that over and see what the best route for that is. Then we can see which one is indeed faster. This route is alot faster than the old one though because we skip: HOOKSHOT (Dampe's Race), We can still skip Din's (don't worry about that I was just bringing up all our options), Forest Temple, Minuet Cutscene, going back in time at all. Reverse BA is fast too, much faster than BA because it can be done anywhere and all it takes is the time to drop and catch a fish, bug, etc. Spiderwaffle - That isn't so great an idea because we don't have a sword to do sword hove with. Our B button is a Bottle... otherwise we would need to ammend the route w/:learn the songs, go to gerudo, equip sword, trade BGS, warp to hylia, do steal rod glitch AND reverse BA again. I'm totally in agreement w/ AKA though about epona early. also AKA, unless you have bombchus, you can't get more bombchus through reverse bottle adventure... it requires a bombchu to be on C-right in order to give you a bottle in the menu where the bombchu is (aka what we don't want at all). But a Poe can be used to refresh a bombchu capacity to 25, 29, etc, unfortunately that can't be done till you are an adult which rules out that, however if we beat dodongo's normally and do bowling, we can grab bombchu from the well if it is indeed necessary, but I don't understand why we need a bombchu anyways. If 1 bomb and 1 bombchu can do it, then 2-3 bombs in a bombhover could do it.
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Hahaha no no no, im still putting this all in order. all the smaller text things are notes explaining why we need certain things either now or later. As for the medallions needed, that is for the broken bridge in gerudo valley... we cannot cross it as an adult in order to deliver the poachers saw to the lead carpenter. I'll get it organized don't you worry. WELL I have updated it and I think I got it all figured out :) Look it over and tell me what you think. Especially, AKA and MWL. I've tested out and confirmed all the different combinations for Reverse BA. Let me say that it is as good as it gets. You can get different tunics etc, but no hoverboots, hookshot, etc. So it's all good.I don't see any other developments concerning it that could make this any faster other than this: Having Bottle B stay on B when you become an adult (the 1st time), AND finding some crazy way to get odd potion on C-right as a Kid before becoming an adult. Other than that, the route seems pretty damn secure. OH, and also if you found a way to make a bottle in a location in the menu turn back to it's normal item (aka we use reverse BA to get a bottle in the place in the menu, and then turn that back to normal)
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