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New death mode highscore (do note that I had several improvements to the previous time I posted about a death mode highscore, but I think this one is worth mentioning): 19.723.988
This new high score will also include a tetris which completely consists of red blocks.
Replay can be found here.
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Submission file has been updated, it's now 35 frames faster. Right after I submitted this run, Nitrodon spotted an 8 frame improvement at level 3-2. I replayed the entire TAS from there (so no hex editing), and I found an improvement of my own in level 6-4; it's now 24 frames faster. There were also 3 frames saved in level transitions. So the updated version is 35 frames faster than the previous version, and the movie is 98 frames faster than the currently published run. The level 6-4 improvement involves a small glitch, and all levels are TASed once more, so it might be worth checking out again :P
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I think a bigame movie should feature these things:
(1) Have similar movements, with the same buttons. - This is the only way a bigame movie makes more sense than just the concept of it. This is the only thing that will make watching both movies at the same time will have any meaning. (This for instance excludes Pinball... I think it was mentioned because it would be easy to do a movie with pinball, since pinball input wouldn't affect other games very much, which means the movements won't correlate, so I think there is no point in this.)
(2) Have similar graphics. - I think it's more obvious the games come from one input file if the character that's being controlled looks the same.
(3) It should be popular games. - A bigame movie will be much more impressive if people actually know what's going on the the games seperately.
(4) The games should be about the same length. - There is no point in making a 1 hour TAS, which also completes a 1 minute TAS... it can hardly be called a bigame movie. The whole idea of a bigame movie is gone.
(5) It shouldn't be more than four games. - Four games can form a 2 by 2 grid. More games would just make it impossible to really watch them all at the same time.
At this point, I can only think of two multiple game movies I'd be interested in seeing:
Ninja Gaiden 1, 2 and 3 - Basically has all things I mentioned and is original because 3 games haven't been done yet. (2 and 4 have)
Contra and SuperC 2 players - Has all things I mentioned, except that the lengths aren't completely the same (3 minute difference). It will be original because it would be a bigame movie, which controls two characters.
I'd be interested if people can think of some other original ideas for multiple game movies, but at this point, I think these two I mentioned are the only two I'm really interested in (since they both have something original. To be honest for instance, I don't think the SMB 1, 2, 2J, 3 run is a really good idea.
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I think one of the good things about a multiple game run is that it will show that it comes from the same input. SMB1 and SMB2J look similar, but SMB2 and SMB3 will look quite a bit different, which might not be such a good thing. I have to give you though, that the movement in general is pretty similar so it is likely that it will be noticable that it's the same input.
Would this be runs that use warps or not?
In either case, the lengths of the movies are quite different, which I do think could be problematic. If a run finishes it less than twice the time another run finishes, it can be doubted if it can really be called a quadrun all the way through.
Anyway, I'm interested in how this might develop :)
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hero of the day wrote:
Baxter:
If the amount of work you put into a run really mattered, wouldn't it be exciting to see someone else beat your run knowing how much extra work they must have put into it? Maybe it is just me, but it doesn't bother me when one of my runs gets obsoleted.
I never disagreed on whether it's exiting if someone beats your work knowing how much work they must have put into it. The point I was making was that the amount of work you put into it mostly will correspond to how much you are attached to it. Being attached to it doesn't mean you can't be happy if someone makes a good improvement to your run.
Upthorn wrote:
When a poster says that there are possible improvements, but not explaining what they are is just as useful as keeping it secret that there are possible improvements. Unless you explain how to perform the improvements, noone will be able to find them except you, so the improvements are still secret, unless you reveal the methods when asked.
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hero of the day wrote:
Instead of posting about the possible improvements, you are improving the runs yourself. These are what I call secrets, because the improvements are SECRET to everyone but you. Even if the run is going to be made publicly available, the information may be useful to someone else who is also working on the same run improvement at the same time.
I think if you know an improvement to your run, and you intend to improve the movie yourself, there is nothing wrong with not telling everyone about the improvement. The improvement might give people a pleasant surprise when they see a new submission all of a sudden. Seeing new stuff in a finished run mostly gives a bigger inpact than seeing it in a movie which only shows the trick. If someone else is working on the run, you should of course mention you are also working on it. It will be obvious that you know some kind of improvement, and whether that person wants to wait with continuing working on it, or continue to work on it is up to him. Whether the holder of the old run wants to share his new trick is also up to him. The other person will eventually see it anyway, and if he still thinks he can do better, he can just try to improve that new movie.
hero of the day wrote:
The amount of work is irrelevant. It isn't the author's game. Why wouldn't you just be happy to see a better run?
The amount of work does matter. I totally agree that it's not your game... but it is your movie. If you spend a lot of time on something, and you produce something good, I see no reason why not to be proud of it, and becoming a little attached to your run is also only natural. I agree that making a run to get a higher 'status' is rather dull, since that's pretty arbitrary... but I don't see anything wrong with having joy over the fact that people enjoy your movie, or even praise you.
hero of the day wrote:
If you start throwing around words like "perfect" or "unbeatable" that will kill all motivation for another person to try and improve the run later on.
Hehe, I don't know why people think so heavy about this. I wouldn't say myself that my run is perfect, but if someone want to say it about his run, I don't have a problem with it. It would more likely motivate me to prove him wrong than kill motivation.
hero of the day wrote:
If you wanna play for Ego, you are just stalling the progression of the site.
As I said, I don't think it's a good idea to play for what is here defined as 'ego'. It will only let you down some day. But if someone is playing for ego, and produces good movies with it, then let him do so.
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As I see it, there are 3 options:
1) Publish this as "completes 4th GP", and also publish the 3 other GP's seperately.
2) Publish this as an any%, and obsolete this when the 100% is done.
3) Don't publish this.
I think it's great weatherton is getting some attention. He has been working very hard at finding stuff like this, and I think he has every right to make it public. This goes for this run, the flower GP test, and possibly in the future a star GP test.
If Comicalflop wants to keep it a surprise, he should have included weatherton in his TAS. Since weatherton is not officially a co-author, when the 100% run is done everyone will say "great job Comicalflop" in the first place... especially since the shortcuts weren't public before.
To me, it didn't spoil that much really, for a 100% run. It shouldn't be a reason for Comicalflop to stop his 100% run... not even a bit. Comicalflop said somewhere in this thread he would be just optimizing stuff that is already shown... what's wrong with this? Most of the TASing is about optimizing stuff. Everybody is doing this all of the time. In fact, it is exactly what you were doing before; optimizing strategies. I believe you said this is the reason why you were the only author of the 100% run, since you did all the input of the actual run (read, optimizing). I think this run exactly shows what weatherton does, and your 100% run will exactly show what you do. I would even go as far as saying it would be unfair to your audience if you decided to quit your 100% TAS. For months you have said you were going to do and finish this run, and I'm sure that this submission didn't change anything for anyone in respect to wanting to see the finished run.
As for the run itself, like I said, I think it's s good thing it's submitted, but (especially reading some of the comments), I'm quite sure it could be improved.
Out of the three options I posted at the the top of this post, I dislike option 1, since that can just be done in 1 run. I also don't like option 2 that much, since a 100% run would just show the same (probably better optimized) and more.
So I'm gonna vote no on this one.
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FODA wrote:
Haven't watched it either, but it's a novelty as the cheats arkanoid run. It only shows the fastest possible completion without changing the game.
I see your point, but there is a big difference between playing style of the movie with the warped arkanoid movie, and the full run (besides the glitch/cheat, every level is warped instead of completed with 3 balls).
I think quite a few people here said that there were not enough changes to the regular run megaman 3 run to justify this version, so in that respect, it might not be the best comparison.
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Jweb Guru wrote:
I am BREATHLESS with excitement! Even though I know you're not quite done the knowledge that it is so tantalizingly close is more than enough. Please release a sample AVI, as I can't get background input to work on my FCEU copies for some reason (probably I just missed an option or something)!
You probably can't find the button because you don't have the right version of FCEU. For background input, you need FCEU 0.98.16, which can be downloaded here.
There will be a good description of how to play it on the emulator in the submission text, but I'm sure an AVI will be available pretty soon too after it's submitted. Do note that it will take at least another month before the run will be done (but considering how much is already completed, I think we can consider it as pretty close to the finish :).
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Here is a pic how input display looks at fceu 0.98.16 (it's at the bottom left of the pic).
When watching one of the wips that was encoded, I noticed something funny... megaman 5 climbing into megaman 3's screen :P
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FreshFeeling wrote:
Inzult's already said it: I'll vote for the faster movie unless there's a substantial difference in entertainment value. In this case there isn't, and this movie is faster.
If you vote for the fastest possible completion of the game, and totally don't care about version differences, or playing quality, then you should vote no on this run... since it can be completed faster on the J version.
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BoltR wrote:
Baxter wrote:
I think this is a very bad choice.:
- If both runs will be published, then there was no need for the wait.
- If only the US version will be published, then someone is going to spend lots of time on a run that is going to be rejected, which is a pure waste of time for that person.
- If only the J version will be published, then why not decide now? We can already see the US version, and we know how the J version is going to look.
<BoltR> jimsfriend, currently there are 25 runs in queue
<BoltR> It's not like delaying it is going to stem the flow of videos
<Bisqwit> Yes, deciding on that particular TAS is not an issue of utmost urgency.
Did you just completely miss my point? I said it did kinda matter that it was decided on quickly, since someone may be wasting his time on making a J run, if it's decided that only the U run will be published.
(And please, don't let the U run obsolete the J run now, and let a J run obsolete the U run later. Make a clear choice on which version must be TASed, or if both versions can be TASed.)
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BoltR wrote:
Since there is no rush to make a decision about this movie, and it's just causing an argument; I am setting the status to Needs More Info. We can wait until the updated (J) version is complete and pick up the debate from there.
I think this is a very bad choice.:
- If both runs will be published, then there was no need for the wait.
- If only the US version will be published, then someone is going to spend lots of time on a run that is going to be rejected, which is a pure waste of time for that person.
- If only the J version will be published, then why not decide now? We can already see the US version, and we know how the J version is going to look.
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Anger"Fist wrote:
Ideally, if people wholeheartedly tried to view our run (when it is done) through 4 FCEU's, that would solve all the questions and concerns.
Yes, but fact remains that most people probably won't view it on emulator. Also, if it is run on the emulator, not all fceu's will be at the exact same frame because of small differences.
One of the main advantages of playing it on the emulator would be input display. At fceu 0.98.16 the input display is like a small controller, at the bottom left of the screen. You can instantly see what is pressed, and it doesn't distract from the movie itself at all. Seeing these four little controllers at each fceu do exactly the same also makes it more appearant it's actually 1 input.
I just watched back some of the AVI's that DeHackEd encoded (which have other input display than fceu 0.98.16), and I have to say I'm not too thrilled about the input version. I was actually distracted from the actual movie by it. It is a lot harder to see what is actually pressed, and if you look at it, you won't be able to look at the movie (especially not the games at the top). Because of this, it's hard to see any correlation at all between the input and even 1 movie, let alone 4 movies.
So if it were up to me, I'd go with an AVI without input display (unless it was somehow changed to the same input display as 0.98.16). Any thoughts?
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Comicalflop wrote:
Like the SC2 TAS
This avi was the final avi that was gonna be published if it got accepted.
Comicalflop wrote:
I think the AVI shouldn't have publishable quality in mind
Don't want people to not enjoy the movie because the quality isn't good, or something else. I can wait a few more hours with encoding if the run took like 3/4th of a year to produce. It would also be convenient if it's the same file, since it could be on the nesvideos tracker right away. This way, the correct download statistics are kept, and it will be seeded right away when published.
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ZeXr0 wrote:
Is it possible to make an demo avi so that people can vote on it before it's published ? I think it would be the best solution, just as bisqwit did with Star Control.
Here are the possible options I see:
(1) After run is done, send movie to DeHackEd, and submit with after it's encoded and provide a link to the avi right away.
(2) After the run is done, submit right away, if DeHackEd is done encoding, edit the submission text to link the avi.
(3) After the run is done, submit right away, publish the movie with the avi when it's accepted (like most other runs).
Most people will probably watch the avi, instead of watching it on the emulator. Providing the avi when the run is published (3) would make it only possible for most people to give their reactions and vote after the run is published. But like ZeXr0 said, people are more likely to comment if the runs hasn't been published yet. We'd love feedback ;)
Providing the avi in the submission text though (1) (2), for a run that (and I don't want to sound cocky) will likely be published, then it's only a few clicks away from publishing, so why wait with that? This would also mean that when the run is published, there will be nothing new, since most people have the avi anyway.
(1) is great for most people, since they don't have to wait for the avi when it's submitted... but it will probably make some of the people who were going to view it with the emulator just download the avi, and one of the fun things of the run is that it will actually play four games with 1 fcm on the emulator (which we don't want to discourage).
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Spoony_Bard wrote:
Though I'll probably wait for an encoded AVI since that'll be easier to view than setting up four FCEUs at once.
That's what we have to do each time we want to work on the run ;)
But no worries... I hope an avi will be available relatively soon after it's submitted :)
