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OMFG, you are right guys, I really blundered in Stage 6, what a fucking noob mistake! after that I should vote 'no' myself.
BTW, I had no idea that there was another run in the site despite of I used the search function...
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Sonikkustar wrote:
This seems like a huge improvement to the 1p run. But I wonder if you guys made sure it was optimized.
Yes vote, On the grounds that a new run should have these improements in the future.
No, it was not optimized at all, although the final result was great. A list with all improvable parts would be extremely long (same thing in the 1 player run).
If the movie is published, probably we'd be motivated to make an improved version although now we are studyng the possibility of an Axel-Skate run.
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Heisanevilgenius wrote:
The idea of doing a run with two Maxes intrigued me but the end result left a few things to be desired.
I have to give major props for those funny grab glitches. Those were great.
My issues were this:
1. The glitch where both Maxes hit guys from both sides turbo fast is great, but you don't start using it until level 3 or so. It looks like you guys discovered the glitch half-way through the game but didn't start over even though that could have saved you time in the early game. Am I wrong?
2. The original 1p Max run was somewhat boring because of the lack of variety in moves, so two Maxes kind of compounds this, making it for the most part rather boring.
3. In a lot of places it seems slower than the 1p Max run. It looks very improvable.
4. It says in your submission that you acknowledge that it can be improved.
For these reasons, I voted meh.
1.We knew the trick beforehand, but we considered it was unnecessary in Stage 1. Actually, we started using this at Stage 2 inside the truck.
2.Well, I don't think the 2 players run glitches are boring since they are fun and unusual.
3, 4. Yes, the 1p run in most cases reveals the improvable parts, it happens often in short segments. The apparent reason is that in 2 players mode, many enemies tend to scatter around with more ease escaping from massive hits, in 1 player run keeping them together is easier.
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Nicos wrote:
Bestiajerules wrote:
If the movie is finally published, we'd be willing to obsolete this with another two-max speedrun, actually this can be improved a lot. We are also planning to do another with Axel and Skate.
i'd be glad to the see axel and skate run
It will be inevitably slower and less impressing, that's what worries me.
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If the movie is finally published, we'd be willing to obsolete this with another two-max speedrun, actually this can be improved a lot. We are also planning to do another with Axel and Skate.
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Truncated wrote:
I am probably the hugest SoR2 fan here (but you know that already since you took the moves list from my FAQ). It's obvious you have a very good technical understanding of this game.
My opinion of this movie is that it contains way too much Max, and too much Atomic drop. You should let at least one character be someone else... Skate is a good idea (can keep up with the scroll speed).
You don't need to aim for time. Aim for entertainment and variety. There are lots of other cool stuff you could do. Like kill all the bikers. Or trigger all the jets on boss 6 just because you can handle it. Do some double throws. Let the crazy stuff stay, like escaping from Max's atomic drop with a headbutt from Skate. And the Vehelits ping-pong.
Overall, I don't find this to be publishable material. Please consider taking peoples' comments here into consideration and making a new, completely awesome run.
Lol, I didn't know the move list was yours, I think I just found it in google and I copied the first hit I saw.
We didn't kill all the bikers or didn't activate the Jets for time reasons, when we started the speedrun we decided to prioritize the time over the entertainment, although in some parts we decided to do the opposite, Vehelits is a good example, with the sword we could have killed it faster, but we left the ping-pong because it was more watchable. After ending stage 1 we considered the possibility of canceling the movie and start a new one from scratch with glitches, stunts and gags but inevitably slower, but we assumed it would have been immediately rejected.
In closing, we knew it was "illicit" to make a speedrun with two Maxes, but for a fastest time it was arguably the best choice, we also thought that his moves and glitches would offset the same-character selection.
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Toothache wrote:
Looks good overall, but I'm curious - is there any reason why you used two Max characters instead of someone else? I would have liked to see a bit more variety in the moves used, and I know each character has a different skill set.
Max is by far the most efficient character, in speedrunning and watchabilty terms. In a speedrun with Max and Axel/Skate/Blaze, Max would do the whole work and the other character would be a mere shadow of him, only being in charge of helping to do the "Handshake of Shadow." A 2 player speedrun without Max would be extremely slower because neither of the three remaining characters lack of powerful moves.
mklip2001 wrote:
However, the quality of this run is definitely inconsistent. If I recall correctly, you guys had a slower boss fight for Round 1. You miss a combo glitch in Round 5 on two fat guys before pulling it off on some enemies immediately following. Also, most of the big fights of Round 8 (Bear Jr., Shiva, and Mr. X) were a little disappointing, since they didn't really use 2-player strategies and just involved repeated Brain Busters.
The quickest way to defeat Shiva and Mr.X is to repeat the Atomic Drop till they die, actually I also find it boring but is the only plausible way, with any other methods it would be much slower and even more boring, the main reason is that these bosses are incompatible with normal Combos or Combo glitches. The first Boss yes, it can be done better with strenuous work (many rerecords). As for the two fat guys in stage 5, if you mean the ones appearing in the boss, there is no need to kill them, they are used to kill the boss with the combo glitch tactic.
upthorn wrote:
Given that both players using the same character diminishes entertainment compared to two players using different characters.
Honestly, I don't think it is the case.
sgrunt wrote:
Using the same character twice is, sadly, not particularly entertaining and doesn't add much to the game over and above having one player. If there were larger time savings, I might be able to let that slide, but I think that using two different characters would show off the game better.
Also:
Submission text wrote:
There are many parts that can be improved, the main reasons:
[...]-We didn't use the Glitch Combo in some segments that really required it, or just we did it late or in a non-effective way.
Why submit the run with known improvements? I can't support publishing a run where there are improvements of this nature known at the time of making it.
When someone does a Speedrun, normally has the feeling that some parts could be done better, and we cannot spend eternities in replaying segments, besides, we had no previous speedruns to use as reference to see possible strategies.
By the way, I don't think this run can be improved at all with other characters...
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shallow wrote:
I must agree with Derakon. Unless a Skate run is substantially different, a 2p run with Max and Skate would be a much wiser and more entertaining option. It'd likely be longer since there are more enemies when there are 2 players, but just the dynamic of 2 players would make up for it.
Not really, the number of enemies doens't change with 2 players.
I tested the possibility of a 2 players speedrun and results were awful, however making a run with stunts or funny stuff would be ok.
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How can I resume recording from a particular frame without deleting the previus part? There is no way to choose the option "Resume Record from now" which is fucking annoying.
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I'm trying to do a Speedrun with Skate, no easy and I have no existent speedruns to make comparisons, if someone volunteers to make another it would rock.
I cancelled the Speedrun with Blaze, too boring and unclear.
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mmbossman wrote:
Hmmm that seems to be an unfortunate recurring problem for you. While I can't help out with that, if you would like to PM me your updated submission text I can edit that for you.
I PMed you, the text is quite long but still is incomplete, when I can I'll add more stuff and try to make it look more native-like since my English is damn bad!
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Derakon I think you're right, that hit seems unnecessary and easy to avoid, anyway is not a waster at all.
I was going to update the author comments but I can't log in from the homepage...
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Currently I'm making the movie description, It'll be damn long but very useful
By the way Derakon, could you tell me where is the part where a goon hits me unnecessarily?
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FODA wrote:
Bestiajerules wrote:
No at all, what determines the time of each segment, is the moment in which you kill the last enemy, once you do that, the rest is trivial.
- I don't think that was the case, the next screen appears when Max goes past the right side of the screen. I felt like that was the most glaring mistake in the run.
Max walking has nothing to do with the appearance of the next screen, it occurs always at the same frame independently of your moves once you annihilate the last enemy, you could check it yourself. By the way, in the old run the Speedrunner also took the bother to move back to collect items...
FODA wrote:
- There was a moment on the beach military base level where you fight 2 women and many weak motorcyclers where you gave priority to killing the ladies and then there were many bikers to kill. Wouldn't it have been faster to focus on the bikers first?
Not really, the two Electras appear before, besides, if I hit them both towards the left, I can hit the bikers at the same time, which is useful to save time. One of my aims in this run, is to hit enemies the soonest possible, especially if they have a lot of health.
FODA wrote:
- I enjoyed the run, and I can't compare it to the published one, but I was turned down by the abuse of knee stomping on the last level, I was hoping for some variety there.
Yeah, but in some segments not using the Knee stomping (a.k.a. atomic drop) is an important waster, for instance, in some parts of the elevator in stage 7.
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Sorry dudes for the lack of information, this was my first submission and I had no idea what to put, is it possible to edit to add stuff?
Derakon wrote:
It's clear you carefully managed your health (though there was a point in level 3 where you got jabbed by one of the bald goons for no reason I could make out...didn't matter healthwise but it did look weird).
Sorry, but could you tell me the exact point?
My biggest mistake took place in the elevator (Stage 7), just before robots, I could have finished off the knifer with the tackle (forward+A) to save time, but I preferred not to do it for health reasons, I needed health to perform super-attacks at robots, the cunts normally force me to do it, however, this time I had no need. :(
Derakon wrote:
Questions:
1) There were a couple of points where you killed all the enemies, then ran and got a health pickup, after which the game took over and slowly walked Max off the screen. One such example is in the first scene for level 4. Wouldn't it be faster to be standing as close to the edge as possible when the game takes over?
No at all, what determines the time of each segment, is the moment in which you kill the last enemy, once you do that, the rest is trivial.
Derakon wrote:
2) I assume the trick you used against Zamza to use the tackle on him without knocking him down doesn't work against Vulture (the Barbon refight in level 8)?
Mmmmm I'm not sure, but all Barbons normally fall down when tackled, anyway, in the Old Run, the Barbon in Stage 1 manages to keep standing after the first charge which takes almost 2 bars. I'd swear that I have never tackled a Barbon without making him fall down, and I have made hundreds of tries. Zamzas are much easier to tackle efficiently.
Derakon wrote:
3) In the first fight against the wrestling boss, you used a mix of backbreakers and melee combos. In the refight in level 8, you just used backbreakers. Why the switch?
Mmmmmmmm I think it's because in Stage 8, the Wrestling boss, shakes me off when I try to do the melee combos, you know, he cries out, spreads his arms and hits me, although it could be avoidable. The 2 wrestling bosses are different to handle, for instance, in the stage 8 you can grab him easily when is lying, instead, in stage 4 he grabs you in the same situation.
Sorry for my non-fluent English
PD: Thanks Sgrunt for the encode
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satan, I have made a new Speed Run with Max, this time I beat the game in 27 minutes and 55 seconds, I improved almost everything in comparison to my old Speed Run or the one made by SprintGod. Although Max bores you, you should take a look at it:
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8772
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adelikat wrote:
You also have QuickHex that is really nice for this type of situation.
Just know that splicing pieces of movies will cause desync more often that not.
any tips to avoid desynchronizations? they are freaking me out, I attempt to modify the frames (slightly) in different ways to no avail ><
the game is Streets of Rage 2, maybe this game is "special" with splicing...
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Thanks everybody for the help.
Maximus' editor slows down my computer and is awful to work with, I think QuickHex is more comfortable though I have to learn to use it, filling so many boxes with numbers boggles my mind.
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Yep, I killed the first bosses without anything impressive, even so, in the the old run the 2 first bosses are killed just 1 second better than I do. To be honest, I didn't want to plagiarize SprintGod's tactic on the Jet.
Yeah, I'm interested in making speedruns with the other characters, now I'm trying it with Blaze (Axel and Skate are quite boring to me) and it's damn hard to know if you are using the right strategy.