Posts for Bigbass


1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
Alyosha wrote:
So what did you guys end up showcasing? Was there any feedback on what people found interesting?
Yeah sorry, forgot to update this thread. TiKevin tested positive for COVID just before the event, so he wasn't able to attend. I did spend roughly 3-4 hours in the practice room replaying NES TASes. There wasn't too much interaction with other people honestly. One person at the start stayed to watch for awhile. A few people would pass by occasionally and ask what I was doing. There was one person who said "Hey! This is tasbot!" which I promptly corrected and we talked for a short while about what console verifications are. There was someone in the row behind me that I saw briefly look over and say to himself something like "oh hey that's neat". The practice room was quite full most of the week, and only half the room this year had CRTs. So it was hard to find a spot to use most days unless I went there at like 2am, and I was pretty tired on the days I volunteered anyways. I think it was a positive experience nonetheless. The people I interacted with thought it was cool, and so there was some exposure. Also it taught me that I desperately need better tooling for dumping TASes on-the-fly. I didn't have many dumps prepared ahead of time, so I couldn't really replay anything made with BizHawk (e.g. a 20minute TAS would take at least 20minutes to dump). Additionally, there's just a lot of little steps involved in making a dump that I'd like to condense as much as possible. Even just for use when I'm at home. Dumping multiple TASes takes a lot of work.
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
Some things to note first.. Project64 should absolutely not be used a reference to what the n64 should be doing. It has horrible accuracy. Mupen64 and any other derivatives like m64p, shouldn't be trusted for accuracy either, especially timing-related accuracy. Both PJ64 and mupen employ game-specific hacks and patches to attempt to run them (a real console doesn't do this). Also, keep in mind that the rate that a game runs on an emulator, can be different than how fast the emulator runs on your computer.
The definition of lag on the n64 doesn't really match other systems. And how that lag affects inputs can differ depending on how the game is programmed, in addition to any timing inaccuracies. All official n64 games, except Namco Museum, use a part of the system called the RDP to generate each new frame of graphics, which gets saved to the system's shared memory (to one or more "framebuffers"). Separately, another part of the system called the Video Interface (VI), is (usually) periodically reading from the current framebuffer and outputting video data (e.g. to a TV screen). To my knowledge most, if not all, games will use a double or triple buffer design. So the framebuffer that the VI is currently reading from, is swapped to the next, once the next image has been generated and saved. This usually happens after the VI reaches a certain (programmable) scanline, causing a "VI Interrupt". If the game logic, and/or the RDP takes too much time to generate the next frame, the framebuffer is not swapped, and thus the VI will re-output the same video frame. Where do inputs come in.... This is where it gets tricky. Most games appear to poll controllers during the VI interrupt, regardless whether the framebuffer was swapped or not. So which poll does the game actually use? That's hard to tell without investigating the game logic. By contrast, a few games such as Super Mario 64, will instead poll for input based on its own game loop, which is why despite timing inaccuracies, it's very easy to console verify TASes for such games. Any timing differences between emulator and console don't really matter in regards to inputs; as long as the game logic still works the same.
The input lag you're experiencing could just be from inaccurate emulation, or the game itself simply is very laggy in regards to its game loop. My suggestion would be to try the Ares emulator. Ares still has timing problems, overall it is much closer to how hardware behaves than the other emulators (cores) you've tried. Don't think the rando stuff is compatible, but at least you can use it to compare. If you still experience the same input lag, then I'd suspect it's just the game itself that's to blame. Or perhaps, something is still missing from all the emulators (which wouldn't surprise me).
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
During the week of this year's SGDQ, TiKevin83 and I are planning to bring our TAS replay equipment to casually show off some verifications in the Practice and/or Casual rooms. While TAS verifications have been showed off on stream before, in the last two events I went to I never really saw any TAS content being shown outside of the main event. So this year I'd like to take some time to just replay a bunch of TASes with the hopes to show off TASing and verification in a casual environment, where people can ask questions or just enjoy the wild crazy things created by this amazing community. While we could just replay random movies, I'd like to ask all of you for suggestions. Ideally we'd want the most entertaining, insane, or silly runs that are replayable. (Though I may also try out some unverified TASes while I'm there.) I'll for sure be bringing a NES, and TiKevin is bringing his Gamecube (GBI; for GB and GBC games). I'll provide some quick links below for the different verified movie lists: - NES - Gameboy/Color For example, one movie I have in mind is [2816] NES Final Fantasy "stairs glitch" by TheAxeMan, Inzult & Gyre in 06:58.24. Despite being obsoleted, it's a silly amount of walking up and down stairs! Note we may not be able to replay every suggestion, but all are appreciated.
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
Have you tried using the Ares core instead? It's much more accurate than mupen.
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
Could you provide a list of the rom hacks that cause this behavior? Also, what version of BizHawk, and which N64 core, are you using?
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
Patashu wrote:
I just now heard of an in-development NES emulator called MetalNES, with the goal of being a transistor level simulation.
I heard about this too. However, it'll need some sort of TASing tools in order for it to be useful for either TAS development or console verifications.
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
Console verification: Link to video
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
Console verification: Link to video
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
Alyosha wrote:
I also resynced 3-D world runner, but that game polls input in a crazy way (dozens of times per frame, all over the place) and the bot can't keep up.
Could you send me the resynced movie? I'd be interested in seeing if I could get it to work.
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
MrTASer wrote:
I uploaded an embeddable image on Imgur and copy pasted the link in avatar url space. It accepted but don't show the image already. I have to preview image on that small icon to view my avatar. What to do?
Looks like you linked to the gallery page, not the image itself. Try this instead: https://i.imgur.com/Xe84VTy.png
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
MESHUGGAH wrote:
SmashManiac wrote:
Kevin Hanley, released the full version for free on their website back in 2020
I've tried to google his name and this game name but found no availability to obtain it. The product is discontinued on retrousb (original first party). Since it's only obtainable by first party as a free version, would you mind sharing the link and post it here? Thanks!
https://www.khangames.com/file-share Out of curiosity, I checked, and the submitted movie syncs in emu on this non-demo version.
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
Honk vote! Errr I mean yes vote! I don't know which of these tricks are TAS-only or not, but I still liked how glitch-heavy the run is. Climbing up the side of a wall was especially fun to see. I'd appreciate some details in the submission text explaining how these glitches work though.
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
scrimpeh wrote:
Spacegulls TAS when?
ViGreyTech already made a TAS for that game here, and verified it too.
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
p4wn3r wrote:
Why is it better to think this way? Because it's clear that an expression like 8 / 2 * 4 should have a "canonical" result. When we write 8 / 2 * 4, what we really mean is 8 * (1/2) * 4. From this point of view, there's no reason to group the numbers with parentheses, because there's no need to do that, since multiplication is associative! We only treat division and multiplication as separate operations and apply the left-to-right rule because it always gives the same result as this more complicated explanation. Anyway, what do you guys think? Do you agree with me?
I agree that it makes sense to know the relationship between x / 2 and x * (1/2), and that this relationship should probably be at least mentioned when teaching division. But I don't think it's necessary to always conceptualize division in this way. That said, this conversion comes up a lot in higher-level math, at least in my experience. Especially so when you start dealing with calculus, as we have rules that can separate constant co-efficients out of an equation. (Simple example): Say we had a problem that said we need to derive f(x) = (x^2) / 2. While there are tricks to deriving a "fractional" equation, it's much simpler if we know that we can show this function like so: f(x) = (1/2)*(x^2). Even more so if 'x' was in the denominator too, besides just a constant. And same if we were to integrate the equation instead. Also, this relationship between division and multiplication, parallels the relationship between subtraction and addition. Like we've established, you can represent a division as multiplication, so too you can (and do often) represent subtraction as simply adding a negative number (3 = 5 - 2 == 3 = 5 + -2). At least in my schooling, both relationships were explicitly taught, but not until higher-level math (think it was in algebra?). I think it's pretty normal that as we advance in math subjects, we learn the reasons why we were previously taught something "just works that way".
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
Even though this submission was rejected, I'd still like to provide this verification I performed in December: Link to video
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
Note for future verification efforts: The NES version of this TAS does verify on console. As I suspected, I'm unable to verify this VS version on a NES. Via the Everdrive, the Pinball (VS) rom does work on the NES, but the playback desyncs (fails to launch the pinball). Probably because of the DIP switches not existing. Idk if this is something that a flashcart would be able to emulate, or if it simply won't be possible on a NES.
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
Did this verification back in late October, but I've made sure the file I used is the same as what's in the now-accepted submission: Link to video
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
despoa wrote:
Has Lunar Pool been attempted for verification yet?
I was unable to get the original movie to sync in FCEUX after importing the fcm movie. Someone would need to attempt to resync, preferably into BizHawk (ideally using the 2.8-rc1 release or master-branch), but resyncing in FCEUX may also work. At which point, I'd be happy to attempt a verification.
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
While I may not be able to express it well, I share Samsara's enthusiasm for this idea. I immediately liked feos' Playground suggestion the first time I saw it. For a long time, I have disliked how some groups of TASes have been denied from being apart of this site. Such as, what are otherwise high-quality submissions, being rejected just because they utilized some form of cheat, even when such a cheat is just a debug tool/code left in by developers. Some restrictions have since been lifted (e.g. educational games, or Vault limitations), and that's great, but I feel there is still a lot of missed TASing potential out there, just waiting to be discovered and shared. Of course, like others have voiced on Discord, I also do not want the site flooded by low-quality submissions. I'm not sure how to best enable the community to handle such inevitable submissions. But, I do strongly believe we should move forward with Playground, and make it a reality!
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
Console verification: Link to video
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
MrTASer wrote:
I know that LUAs are meant for changing a specific software's code but will it be possible to open fceux LUAs in BizHawk
Lua scripts can be used for various tasks, not just manipulating the game's memory. Everything CPP said is spot on. However, it is technically possible to write a script that works on both emulators, but it's not easy, and sometimes not possible depending on what you're trying to accomplish. It's possible in Lua to check if a function exists before trying to use it, and thus you can potentially write something that figures out which function to use, etc. There's no automated way to do this either. This is specifically something the script writer must do; not something emulators will do for you. If you really want the same functionality that a script made for FCEUX provides, then I suggest opening the script in a text editor, learning what exactly it's doing, and then try to rewrite it given Bizhawk's API.
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
MESHUGGAH wrote:
The embed video doesn't loads
The sub embeds are intended for youtube videos; that is a google drive video. This movie softlocks pretty fast, but I also get bored just as fast. It's an interesting idea, and maybe I'd like it more if it wasn't done on the most over-TASed game ever.
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
Hello there aliilho2, welcome to the community! As others have mentioned, the best place to upload your TASes are to the site's userfiles here. If you'd like feedback on your work, you're welcome to ask in the community's discord server. Submissions on the other hand, are for when you've created a highly optimized TAS which you wish to have published on the site. While this TAS isn't at that level of optimization, don't be discouraged! This game in particular has been extremely optimized by many people over a long time period; but it's a nice starting point too. Next you may want to try a different game that piques your interest, or perhaps head over to the game forums and look through the wishlist threads.
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
Alright, after (effectively) disabling the latch filter on my device, I was able to verify this using your poll-based dump. ---- I wanted to know what the difference was. First of all, the polling sequence done by the game is fairly typical. No non-standard polling, or weird clocks, etc. Each frame consists of: Latch, clock*8 player 1, clock*8 player 2, Latch again, clock*8 player 1, clock*8 player 2. Though the time when the polls appear within a frame changed wildly. So I compared your poll-based dump, and my frame-based dump, by incrementing through each set of inputs on a frame by frame basis. Thus your dump should theoretically have two identical sets per frame, which should match the frame-based dump. Based on the analysis here, I found the first difference. I traced this moment back to roughly movie frame #2719. Which is the point where the player performs the first glitch of the run. Using onmemoryread/onmemorywrite in a lua script for memory address 0x4016, I found that on most frames, just as seen on hardware, 2 latches occur as described earlier. But on frames #2715 and #2716 of the emulator, only 1 latch occurs on each. I located where this was happening on hardware, and it turns out that VSYNC occurs after the 1st latch's polling sequence, causing a short delay (~0.5ms) until the 2nd latch occurs, and is why only 1 latch appears on these frames on emu. Trying to change the latch filter to account for this, didn't work, and seemed to consistently change which frames get this collision.. ---- If we think about frames as being wholly separate from each other, then theoretically the frame-based dump should have still worked. The reason it didn't in practice, is because the latch-filter is much too large for this odd case (which happens multiple times throughout the run), and a single value may not be sufficient. To me, this throws into question why some of us even bother using a latch filter at all. Perhaps in the past, it was necessary because emulators weren't accurate enough? Also makes me wonder if using a poll-based dump would allow me to verify TASes that have failed for me in the past.
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
Bigbass
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 2/2/2021
Posts: 156
Location: Midwest
Alyosha wrote:
it's not how a real controller works
Sorta. True that controllers do not just ignore extra latches within a given frame, but TASes that explicitly do not use sub-frame inputs, assume that multiple polls/latches within a given frame, will get the same input repeated for each poll. On replay devices, this is implemented using a latch filter (usually 8ms is used, approx. half a frame). Any subsequent latches after the first, will receive the same data, until the end of the latch filter period.
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
1 2 3 4 5 6 7