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klmz wrote:
My more interesting (0:30 with 23 parts, faster and smaller, but neither the fastest nor the smallest) solution for Robo-children:
?lvl=18&code=y12:3f3;p12:5f3;c10:6f1;r14:5f1;b10:5f1;c10:4f2;c12:4f3;c14:4f0;p13:7f3;p12:7f3;c12:11f3;q12:6f2;p11:7f3;c14:6f1;y14:7f1;y10:7f1;c12:10f3;p11:5f3;p13:5f3;c11:4f2;c13:4f0;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;
This is indeed interesting because you can chain it:
?lvl=18&code=y12:3f3;p12:5f3;c12:4f3;p13:7f3;p12:7f3;c12:11f3;q12:6f2;p11:7f3;c12:10f3;p11:5f3;p13:5f3;c11:4f2;c13:4f0;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c7:4f2;b7:5f1;c7:6f1;y7:7f1;c17:4f0;r17:5f1;c17:6f1;y17:7f1;p10:5f3;p8:5f3;p9:5f3;p10:7f3;p9:7f3;p8:7f3;p14:7f3;p15:7f3;p16:7f3;p14:5f3;p15:5f3;p16:5f3;c8:4f2;c9:4f2;c10:4f2;c14:4f0;c15:4f0;c16:4f0;
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This game is one of those means to find out exactly where you rank in a particular scale.
And I'm not surprised of the result. I'm "okay", as in I can solve the levels, and I understand the principles of optimization, but I'm nowhere near the "stunning and cunning" class where people bring up solutions that are half shorter than mine and often half faster too. Exactly where I need to be. Sometimes it gets frustrating that this applies in nearly every possible area of life, but I guess there's a blessing in that, too.
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Pointless Boy wrote:
Bisqwit wrote:
Also, Academics! in 3:21, 31 parts
?lvl=23&code=y12:2f3;q11:3f5;q13:3f1;r11:5f3;p11:6f4;b11:7f1;c12:5f3;p12:6f7;c12:7f3;b13:5f3;p13:6f6;r13:7f1;q10:6f6;q14:6f0;r10:4f1;y10:5f1;b14:4f1;y14:5f1;r14:2f3;p14:3f4;b10:2f3;p10:3f6;g12:3f3;c12:4f3;b11:9f2;p12:9f3;q12:10f0;c12:11f3;r13:9f0;c12:8f3;c12:12f3;
Another C++ translation. C++ helps because it saves the trouble of having to rewrite the conveyer belts / arrow directions again and again while optimizing branches.
Very nice. You can cut the number of transcribers in the main portion in half, though :)
I know. I just couldn't figure out a way that doesn't actually increase the number of parts. Conveyer belts count towards the cost, too.
See here:
?lvl=23&code=c10:9f3;r9:1f2;y9:2f1;p10:1f7;q10:2f0;g10:3f3;c10:4f3;p10:5f7;c10:6f3;b11:1f0;y11:2f1;i11:3f0;c11:4f1;q11:5f6;b12:4f3;p12:5f0;r12:6f1;c12:2f3;y12:3f0;c10:7f3;c10:8f3;r8:4f3;p8:5f2;b8:6f1;c9:4f1;q9:5f0;c9:3f1;c10:13f2;c11:13f2;r9:11f2;p10:11f7;q10:12f0;b11:11f0;c10:10f3;
I know that you know the way around this problem. It's just that I don't :)
(I was able to make it better, reaching 31 parts again, but it was slower, and then I accidentally erased it as I've done many times. Whose idea was it to make the eraser the default tool?)
Also, Seraphim! in 0:42, 31 parts. The very same problem applies in this table.
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Pointless Boy wrote:
Now that you have seen my solution to Robomecha (28) though, I think you can see what I mean.
Thank you for the informative posting. Incidentally, your post describes more or less exactly the manner in which I solved that particular stage, except that I do merging continuously instead of lastly. Naturally, the result is almost identical too. The only difference is that my red/blue colors are a mirror image to yours, and that my engine starts one step higher.
I've used the C++ method only with the more complicated engines where I need to make notes to begin with.
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Here's "Teachers!" in 0:59, 26 parts assuming that X may also be zero.
?lvl=21&code=p12:2f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;c12:11f3;c12:12f3;c12:8f3;q12:7f7;p13:2f2;r13:1f3;c12:6f3;p12:5f3;c12:4f3;c12:3f3;y11:2f2;c13:3f2;i13:4f2;p13:5f6;r13:6f1;b15:2f3;p15:3f6;i15:4f1;q16:3f2;q16:4f4;y16:5f1;c14:3f2;c14:4f0;
EDIT: Replaced with a version that has no bugs.
Speaking of bugs, Patashu, your 12-part Robobugs, below, fails on input 00001.
?lvl=5&code=c12:9f3;c12:10f3;c11:5f3;c12:4f3;p12:5f3;c13:5f3;c13:6f0;p11:6f3;p12:6f3;c11:7f2;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;
Here's Robobugs in 0:28, 13 parts with no bugs.
?lvl=5&code=p11:6f7;p12:6f7;p12:4f7;c11:4f3;c11:5f3;c13:4f3;c13:5f0;c12:5f3;c11:7f2;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;
Also, Academics! in 3:21, 31 parts
?lvl=23&code=y12:2f3;q11:3f5;q13:3f1;r11:5f3;p11:6f4;b11:7f1;c12:5f3;p12:6f7;c12:7f3;b13:5f3;p13:6f6;r13:7f1;q10:6f6;q14:6f0;r10:4f1;y10:5f1;b14:4f1;y14:5f1;r14:2f3;p14:3f4;b10:2f3;p10:3f6;g12:3f3;c12:4f3;b11:9f2;p12:9f3;q12:10f0;c12:11f3;r13:9f0;c12:8f3;c12:12f3;
Another C++ translation. C++ helps because it saves the trouble of having to rewrite the conveyer belts / arrow directions again and again while optimizing branches.
Also, Engineers! in 1:16, 39 parts
Source code withheld. It was rather trivial at this point, though.
Achievement unlocked: Epilog.
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pirate_sephiroth wrote:
I'm still trying to find a way to find out what's the last element in a string.
hints?
Insert a delimiter at the beginning of the program (it goes to the end of the string), and search for the delimiter. The element right before the delimiter is the last element.
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Pointless Boy wrote:
Bisqwit wrote:
I first coded this in C++, then translated it into Manufactoria. The first revision was 66 parts long and took 2:41 to execute. Then I optimized it progressively.
This is surprising to me, though congratulations for finding a nontraditional solving method that exploits your personal strengths. One weakness your method may have in general, though, is that you don't stumble upon "intelligent" methods of optimization you might naturally find if you weren't constructing your solutions so mechanically. I'll try to show you what I mean in my next post.
I will be interested to see what you mean.
For reference, here's the C++ code I wrote for the "Officers!" stage.
Apologies about the shoddy indents and row spacing; I tightened it a bit to make it fit on screen for a screenshot (which takes less visual space on the forums than a code paste does).
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Gunty wrote:
Bisqwit wrote:
I got 3:07, 42 parts, on "Police!". I admit that my algorithm, too, is very basic. It just does its stuff. And it's got plenty of repeaters.
I improved my solution to "Police!" to 2:50, using 35 parts. I think it uses the same algorithm as your solution, in a more compact layout:
Interesting. In my program, the "basic" structure of the buffer at the start of every iteration is "nnYremainderYnnG".
In yours, it is "remainderYnnGnnY".
My program goes "find first Y -> move it forward -> find next Y -> move it backward -> find G -> start again".
Your program goes "find next Y -> move it backward -> find next Y (observe G in the middle) -> move it forward -> start again".
Very cool! Congratulations.
EDIT: With affectionate apologies to Gunty, here's Judiciary revised; 3:42, 60 parts. :(
?lvl=20&code=p12:12f3;p11:12f4;p13:12f2;p10:10f6;p9:10f1;p14:10f0;p15:10f1;r11:11f3;r13:11f3;r14:11f1;r10:11f1;c9:11f1;c11:10f2;c13:10f0;q12:10f3;c15:11f1;b11:13f1;b13:13f1;b10:9f3;b14:9f3;g12:11f3;y9:12f1;y15:12f1;q10:12f3;q14:12f7;b11:9f2;p12:9f3;r13:9f0;q12:8f2;b10:5f2;c10:6f1;y10:7f1;c11:5f2;b11:6f2;q11:7f5;y12:4f3;i12:5f7;c12:6f3;p12:7f3;c13:5f2;r13:6f0;q13:7f1;g12:3f3;y12:2f3;c15:4f1;q15:5f6;g15:6f1;b16:4f3;p16:5f0;r16:6f1;c14:5f2;c13:4f0;c13:2f3;c13:3f3;b14:4f0;r14:2f0;p14:3f4;c15:3f0;y14:7f1;r14:6f1;
Here's the speed-optimized version. 3:27, 69 parts:
?lvl=20&code=p12:12f3;p11:12f4;p13:12f2;p10:10f6;p9:10f1;p14:10f0;p15:10f1;r11:11f3;r13:11f3;r14:11f1;r10:11f1;c9:11f1;c11:10f2;c13:10f0;q12:10f3;c15:11f1;b11:13f1;b13:13f1;b10:9f3;b14:9f3;g12:11f3;y9:12f1;y15:12f1;q10:12f3;q14:12f7;b11:9f2;p12:9f3;r13:9f0;q12:8f2;b11:6f2;q11:7f5;c12:6f3;p12:7f3;r13:6f0;q13:7f1;g12:3f3;y12:2f3;q15:5f6;g15:6f1;b16:4f3;p16:5f0;r16:6f1;c15:7f2;c14:7f2;y16:7f1;c10:7f0;c9:7f0;y8:7f1;b8:6f1;r8:4f3;p8:5f2;q9:5f0;g9:6f1;c9:4f2;r10:3f2;p10:4f2;b10:5f2;c11:3f3;c11:4f3;c11:5f2;c13:3f3;c13:4f3;c13:5f0;r14:3f0;p14:4f4;b14:5f0;c15:4f0;y12:5f3;c12:4f3;
EDIT: In the same train of thought, here's the speed-optimized version of Police!, 2:38, 40 parts:
?lvl=19&code=c12:11f3;g12:3f3;y12:2f3;y12:6f3;c12:4f3;c12:5f3;c12:10f3;c14:5f0;q12:12f6;p13:12f4;r13:11f3;b13:13f1;c10:5f2;q14:6f6;g14:7f1;c14:8f2;b15:5f3;p15:6f0;r15:7f1;y15:8f1;r9:5f3;p9:6f2;b9:7f1;y9:8f1;q10:6f0;g10:7f1;c10:8f0;b11:7f2;q11:8f5;c12:7f3;p12:8f3;r13:7f0;q13:8f1;c12:9f3;r11:4f2;b11:6f2;p11:5f2;r13:4f0;b13:6f0;p13:5f4;
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Bisqwit wrote:
Officers!
Generals! is very similar:
0:52, 33 parts
?lvl=14&code=i12:3f5;g12:2f3;i12:4f5;i12:6f1;c12:12f3;y13:3f1;c13:2f0;q11:2f5;q11:3f3;c11:5f1;c13:5f3;y10:3f1;c11:1f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;q13:8f1;c13:7f3;c12:7f2;c12:11f3;b10:2f1;p10:1f2;r12:8f3;r14:8f3;b14:9f0;p13:9f7;p12:5f7;b11:6f1;b14:6f0;p13:6f7;p11:4f1;r13:4f3;r10:4f2;q13:10f1;
This test does not seem to require removing leading zeros, but if you want it, it's here. Slightly longer, of course, at 1:08 and 37 parts.
?lvl=14&code=i12:3f5;g12:2f3;i12:4f5;i12:6f1;y13:3f1;c13:2f0;q11:3f3;c11:5f1;c13:5f3;y10:3f1;c12:9f3;q13:8f1;c13:7f3;c12:7f2;b10:2f1;p10:1f2;r12:8f3;r14:8f3;b14:9f0;p13:9f7;p12:5f7;b11:6f1;b14:6f0;p13:6f7;p11:4f1;r13:4f3;r10:4f2;q11:1f6;c11:2f2;q13:10f1;r11:13f1;p11:12f6;b11:11f3;p12:11f3;g12:10f3;c13:11f0;q12:12f0;
Parts optimization 0:39, 28 parts on Robotanks (where Patashu has "optimized for speed" record):
?lvl=15&code=c13:3f0;p12:3f5;c11:12f2;c13:12f0;p12:10f3;c11:11f3;c11:10f3;c13:10f3;c13:11f3;p12:8f3;c11:8f3;c13:8f3;c12:9f3;c11:9f2;c13:9f0;c11:3f3;p11:4f3;c12:4f3;c10:4f3;c10:5f2;c11:6f3;c13:6f3;c12:7f3;c11:7f2;c13:7f0;c12:5f3;p12:6f3;c11:5f2;
Here's 0:17, 12 parts if you can cheat (needs luck manipulation too):
?lvl=15&code=c13:3f0;c12:9f3;c11:3f3;c12:7f3;c12:5f3;p12:3f5;p11:4f3;c12:4f3;p12:8f0;p12:10f0;c12:11f3;p12:6f0;
Speed optimization, 0:20, 9 parts on Robospies (where Patashu has "optimized for parts" record):
?lvl=16&code=p12:4f2;c12:5f3;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;p12:6f7;p11:6f4;c11:5f2;
Gunty wrote:
Does anyone have an elegant solution for "Police!"?
The best I got is 3:14 using 51 parts, but I have a feeling that's not very optimal.
I got 3:07, 42 parts, on "Police!". I admit that my algorithm, too, is very basic. It just does its stuff. And it's got plenty of repeaters.
?lvl=19&code=r11:3f2;y12:2f3;b13:3f0;b11:6f2;g12:5f3;p12:6f3;r13:6f0;y12:4f3;i11:9f1;q12:7f5;c11:7f3;c12:8f3;p12:3f7;r12:9f0;b10:8f3;p11:8f3;q9:7f7;q7:7f3;c8:8f1;y10:7f1;c9:9f0;c10:9f0;y8:9f1;y6:7f1;c10:5f2;c7:6f2;c6:6f2;q9:5f5;c11:5f2;b10:6f0;r8:6f2;p9:6f1;p8:7f1;b9:8f0;r7:8f2;b10:11f2;y10:12f2;p11:11f3;r12:11f0;c12:12f3;c11:10f3;q11:12f5;
In the same breath, here is my Judiciary; 3:35, 62 parts. You may notice the modular structure.
?lvl=20&code=y14:2f3;y12:2f2;c9:5f2;q9:6f3;r9:7f2;r10:5f2;p10:6f1;c10:7f1;y10:8f1;q11:4f5;p11:5f1;q11:6f7;b11:7f0;c11:8f0;c12:4f2;b12:5f0;y12:6f1;b12:7f3;c12:8f0;c13:4f2;b13:5f2;c13:6f3;p13:7f3;i13:8f1;g14:4f3;p14:5f3;q14:6f5;c14:7f3;r14:8f0;r15:5f0;c14:3f3;q10:12f7;c11:10f2;q12:10f7;y12:11f3;p12:12f3;c13:10f0;r13:11f3;p13:12f2;b13:13f1;q14:12f3;c13:9f3;p9:10f1;c9:11f1;g9:12f1;b14:9f3;p14:10f0;r14:11f1;p15:10f1;c15:11f1;g15:12f1;r11:11f3;r10:11f1;b11:13f1;b10:9f3;p10:10f6;p11:12f4;y8:5f2;c8:6f1;b13:3f1;r13:1f3;p13:2f2;
I also tried to make these maximally aesthetic. Means things such as no air-hanging conveyer belt ends (where possible within goals), and maximal symmetry in adjacent writer colors.
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Patashu wrote:
0:31 - 11 on Robocats:
?lvl=6&code=p12:10f3;c11:10f2;c13:10f1;c12:4f3;c12:5f3;c12:6f3;p12:8f4;p12:9f2;c13:8f0;c13:9f1;c12:7f3;
0:28 - 11 on Robocats. More or less the same as yours, except as a mirror image and closer to the beginning.
?lvl=6&code=c12:4f3;p12:5f2;p12:7f7;p12:6f4;c13:7f0;c11:6f1;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;c11:7f1;c11:5f2;
0:04 - 7 on "Soldiers!":
?lvl=12&code=r12:4f3;r12:5f3;r12:6f3;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;
:)
Re: Officers!, I first made a "solution" that assumes a reverse endianess. Turned out to be a wrong assumption.
?lvl=13&code=c12:9f3;c12:10f3;c12:11f3;c12:12f3;c12:6f3;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;r11:2f2;p12:2f3;b12:3f3;c12:4f3;y13:2f2;b13:3f2;c13:4f0;b14:2f3;p14:3f3;q14:4f3;r15:3f0;c12:5f3;
Fixing for the correct endianess, I get:
2:03 -- 33 parts
?lvl=13&code=i12:3f5;g12:2f3;i12:4f5;p12:5f3;i12:6f1;c12:12f3;b13:4f3;r11:6f1;y13:3f1;c13:2f0;b10:4f2;q11:2f5;q11:3f3;p11:4f5;c11:5f1;c13:5f3;p13:6f3;r14:6f0;y10:3f1;r10:2f1;p10:1f6;c11:1f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;q13:8f1;p13:9f3;b14:8f3;r14:9f0;c13:7f3;c12:7f2;c12:11f3;b12:8f3;q13:10f1;
I first coded this in C++, then translated it into Manufactoria. The first revision was 66 parts long and took 2:41 to execute. Then I optimized it progressively.
Note: This program has three blue arrows leading to "rejection". None of the testcases triggered them, and I think none ever will, so I removed the rules that handles those branches. They're in my C++ code, though.
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If you so like, go ahead and create your site and publish movies with this ambition of yours!
There can be more tool-assisted to the world than just TASVideos.
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Status update: I'm still redoing the last stage of this movie, but I tweaked some of the bot parameters and it's going unexpectedly slowly.
It is recalculating the first two shots (which is to pocket two balls on the second shot, both of them into an ad-hoc black hole, if it goes the same way as it did before), and it is currently calculating angle 109/255. For some reason, it is going very slowly; yesterday, it was 105/255. The first 90 or so went very quickly. I'm not sure what exactly I changed to cause this to be so slow, but… oh well.
To my understanding, I only changed it so that for the last shot, it no longer considers the timing after the launch to be important, so the movie could end sooner.
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neo_omegon wrote:
To tell the truth, I have experiences of TASing, though I’m Newbie.
Today I’ll introduce my FF5j and FF6j dual TAS. I was very hesitate to introduce it due to language version and known improvements, but I decided to introduce it.
Warning! Warning! Uematsu overdose!
Thanks for the input display.
You've certainly done a large job.
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GlitchMan wrote:
Hey everybody! Guess what? I have finished all 8 regular stages!!
Finally, this game's TAS begins to appear on-par with the Rockman 1-2 TASes on the level of entertainment. Consider yourself congratulated!*
*) To my surprise, this expression has been used by many others before me.
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Chef Stef wrote:
I noticed that the cursor position is retained between boards - did this ever save time on any board? i.e. did you ever put the cursor in a sub-optimal position in the last shot on board x so that you could have a better starting shot for board x+1?
No, I didn't. Optimizing that fact is a TODO for future contestants. In my understanding, it would have exponentially increased the production time further (i.e. instead of 1 year, it'd take 100 years or so).
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Velitha wrote:
Sorry this one took so long, I trial-and-errored the version of FCEU. 98.12/13 had audio-sync problems with the video, and 98.16 wouldn't use the Table #60 glitch. 98.15 on the other hand, not only does the glitch, but also the audio syncs even in turbo mode.
Thanks Velitha.
However, it looks rather audio-desyncy to me. By the end of the movie, audio is about 0.3s late. In stage 40, it's about 0.6s late. (Visual, unverified estimates only.)
Also, I said I'm probably going to replace this submission, depending on how it turns out after the bot redoes stage 60; as such, it should have been considered a temporary encode, and archive.org should probably not have been used for it. Oh well.
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Velitha wrote:
One last thing, occasionally, the balls are covered with random "bars" that fade them in/out. (good example is on table 40 around 15 minutes in) It's not an encoding problem, I triple-checked.
It is called the "8 sprite limit". A hardware limit in the NES, which means that the PPU can only render a maximum of eight sprites on a single scanline. The ninth and so forth are not displayed at all. To avoid things appearing completely invisible, most games rotate the sprite list so that in case of the limit being met, each sprite on the scanline "blinks" rather than some of them being completely invisible. This happens in any game where large groups of actors are lined horizontally. (For an example, you can see this occurring in Solomon's Key room 7, though not in the Famtasia movie, because Famtasia does not emulate the 8-sprite limit.) The blinking affects only those scanlines where the limit is hit; not the entire objects. Hence rectangular "bars".
On the topic of blinking -- blinking can also occur due to the other limit: The PPU can only receive a list of a maximum of 64 sprites for the entire screen. Again, most games rotate the sprite list to avoid some actors being left completely invisible for a large time. This is what you get in Mega Man 2 or Rygar when you scroll the screen such as to invite the same enemy multiple times to the same screen, many times enough. Not applicable in Lunar Ball, because the object count is fixed.
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Looks like the desync is emulator version specific; the bug in the game might be timing-sensitive much like those scrolling glitches in Megaman 2.
I am redoing stage 60, but it looks like the same initial sequence is going to be used, which means it will still continue to desync on wrong emulator versions. Apologies. Please use the right emulator version instead of the wrong one.
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Note to whomever it concerns: This is a standard-friction movie. The other is a no-friction movie. The times are not comparable. This is not a 12-minute improvement.
Note to self: The rerecord count was accidentally modified after I reset it to 0. I will replace the submission later, after verifying something in board 60. Might take a week though.
Note to everyone: This movie was in the making for 24/7 for over a year in total. (Though there was a pause of 1,5 years in the middle of it!) Yes, this means that it took more than 8760 hours of 100% capacity work on 4 CPU cores to produce this movie. Besides the programming, some manual work was also involved. The "cursor movements" reported in the submission message were done by me, not the bot.
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Sonikkustar wrote:
So, Is there still interest of obsoleting Solomon's Key? I remember TASing Room 1 and posting on the forums if anyone wants to start.
In my usual contrived manner, I welcome* anyone to submit a movie of this game, but not with Famtasia extermination being the sole motive.
I expect to see an optimized movie, not one that just replaces a Famtasia movie.
And I take no pleasure in knowing all too well that optimizing in this game is quite painful.
In the game of Go, there's a term called whole-board tsumego which describes situations sometimes arising where a life-and-death problem, that usually occurs in some self-contained little area, such as some 6x6 area in some corner, suddenly involves the entire contents of the 19x19 board.
As an optimization challenge, Solomon's Key is a whole-room-tsumego. Except that in some circumstances it's more like a whole-game-tsumego, when the last moves in the previous room affect your first moves in the next room.
*) Not that I have a say to whether someone can submit something or not.
Apologies about the shoddy indents and row spacing; I tightened it a bit to make it fit on screen for a screenshot (which takes less visual space on the forums than a code paste does).
