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MTA wrote:
Made a test of this at the beginning of this month, it enters hyrule field the exact same frame as the last any% tas did, but i think what i did is improvable, so i think doing zora's river this way would be faster by just a few frames
Link to video
I came close to trying this strategy after the last any% but I thought it'd be too unlikely to be faster, but if this actually does end on the same frame (and this looks greatly improvable) I may TAS this in the coming days.
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Synx wrote:
Also: Is OoT TAS'ing dead? No activity here in like for ever and bloob/grunz/swordless show no interest in making a new TAS and nobody else seem to be able to make one.
I've been inactive for 3 months now, but the general consensus for the GIM any% route was that it's simply too boring to be worth optimizing. This doesn't mean people aren't working on other routes or the any% by now. Being inactive on TASVideos doesn't mean nobody is TASing anymore.
Synx wrote:
Maybe TASing OoT is just too hard and too much work
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The full wrong warp:
Link to video
I used a savestate with 2-3-1 skipped and the warp moved closer to the entrance.
I'm pretty sure the warp doesn't have to be this close to the entrance. Also, the first chu should explode without any waiting, even if it means colliding it with a third chu. The timer manipulation here was also crap. If we're still unsure whether getting chus is faster we need to optimize this including the Gohma fight before timing anything.
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Synx wrote:
For example the slide from zoras river to kakariko village through hyrule fields and the slide into the cutscene outside the great dekutree. The latter doesn't seem to work with a stick?
The DT cutscene trick is possible with a stick, but you don't run very far without breaking it. Then HF -> Kak is slightly faster with a stick. They should even out, more or less.
Grunz's idea was indeed to crouch stab recoil without breaking the stick. As far as we know that is only possible on enemies.
Edit: You actually can get the optimal boost into the DT cutscene without breaking the stick. It just requires an extremely precise position and angle.
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I've shown already that skipping the sword is 10 to 15 seconds faster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSRn5A59ji4
TAS will still use 4 sticks like RTA (Grunz's idea for preserving sticks didn't work out).
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It's possible and pretty easy to do. Anyway I'm certain at this point that it's gonna be way slower than just skipping Mido normally. I'll still time it though, probably tomorrow.
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It isn't hard to make it instant, and IIRC the skulltula timer runs during the bug recatch. It still is a long time though.
Also if Grunz's idea fails then spending the extra 10 rupees on nuts is worth considering.
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Slowking wrote:
Dropping bugs at the magic bean hole then megaflipping off the skulltulla.
That's not a terrible idea actually... You could turn it into a HISS and slide past Mido. Then of course continue it over to the babas and farm them. Probably still slower but it is definitely worth timing.
Slowking wrote:
Can ISG stay active in water?
Even if it could you'd have to jumpslash back into the water anyway :\
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MrGrunz wrote:
Ok, so in our current route we get 4 Sticks (buy 3 and one from the Baba) and 3 get used for the HF Slide, Mido Skip and B1 Skip, right? I also know how to skip losing the Stick for the HF Slide, I think. It's hard to explain how exactly it works. I hope I can test it by.Thursday, but I'm so convinced, that you can actually start planning a route, that only gets 2 Sticks ;)
If you're thinking of using a crouchstab similar to the first hit on Ganon, I'm pretty sure that only works on enemies. Would be nice to be proven wrong though.
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MrGrunz wrote:
You forgot to include the first jumpslash in Zora's River, which should at least save half a second or a bit more. Did anyone test yet, whether the B1 Skip works the way we are planning using one stick? Just to make sure everything really works the way we are assuming.
I didn't feel like timing the small things, rather to only show that swordless is faster. Cuccos can be improved enough to cover the ZR recoils and much more. And then swordless has a faster HF slide advantage which I didn't time. And yeah, the same B1 skip works with just one stick.
MrGrunz wrote:
I'm also pretty sure, that I know a way to skip Mido without losing one of our precious Deku Sticks. I haven't thought about the actual route much yet, but I think we only need 2 sticks then, right? Dunno how much time this will save in the end, depends on how well my idea is going to work out. I barely have any time at the moment, I'll try to upload a video as soon as possible. Give me 2 days ;)
How so? I think it would be something like skip the 7 rupees after the shop and the 3 from the rock, then only buy one stick from the 2nd shop visit.
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Yep I noticed that :) Decided to do the complete comparison with much better swordless cuccos. Trying to get it uploaded now.
The video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSRn5A59ji4
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I removed the video because it didn't take into account that the TAS B1 skip requires an extra stick and that the optimal B2 entrance requires another. Swordless is probably still slightly faster but it's unlikely I'll be doing an updated comparison.
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Rocks only drop up to 3 rupees as a child (same as with bushes). Even still, getting rupees there without a shield takes about 2 seconds, since you have to throw the rock against a wall and wait for the rupees to fall, while the blue rupee on the way to the shop takes just a little over a second (63-69 frames). A potential alternative would be to slash an extra bush after the maze and get 3 rupees from each for 12 (Grunz slashed 3 and got 7). With amazing manipulation it could save like half a second. We didn't think of this until after we finished the run though.
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TASeditor wrote:
Easy Yes vote.
A Question: Have you not tried to improve the parts before cucco collecting?
Everything up to Kakariko has since been redone and matched several times by both Grunz and I. It's simply a convenience to copy the input until we're able to improve upon it.
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Excuse my late involvement...I haven't had much of a chance to review the thread. Thank you all for the amazing feedback! I'm really glad you were entertained. The comments about the more subtle optimizations are especially enjoyed. We really pushed ourselves in taking it this far.
Here's the suggested screenshot by the both of us (but we're still open to ideas):
[URL=http://s3.photobucket.com/user/joe1mama/media/ZeldanoDensetsu-TokinoOcarinaJsnap0022.jpg.html][/URL]
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An 18-frame sacrifice wouldn't be too terrible, but as of now we're hoping to bring it down to at least 10. Of course the time could always come that we're simply too sick of doing attempts and will have to move on with whatever we have.
RachelB wrote:
Shouldn't this be very easy to do with a bot?
Is that actually possible with the current Mupen? We've talked about this before but have always assumed it wasn't. A bot for manipulation grinding would be helpful for other areas of the any% as well. DT nut + skullwalltula being one example.
If you beat a world, then clip into another world and beat it without returning the first world's crystal, do you return 2 crystals at once?
Nope, unfortunately you still only get to insert one crystal. I'm thinking that the only improvement to the current route would involve either duplicating the ball, or by keeping the ball after inserting a crystal and using it to insert all six. I haven't even a guess as to how to achieve this though.
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Here are two more barrier skips:
World 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=909FiZFmxYI&feature=youtu.be (TAS only, I think)
Final world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsaOPx-LS6M&feature=youtu.be
These are currently useless, though. Beating a boss early will only let you open the next barrier in the usual sequence, and even if we could open them out of order we'd still need every gem to run the credits.
Warp loading zones aren't there after you've just beaten a boss and need to place a gem, and since skipping to the final level uses the ball it can only be done at the very start of the game.
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