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I got word from Nibelung that he's not doing it anymore. Myself and/or Tompa (more emphasis on or) may pick this up way down the road if no one else has done so.
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I certainly hope not, that'd suck. But there's some battlefield stages in world 3 that I've visited, and they don't seem to have this problem. Oh well. We'll see when I get there, and I've contacted someone specialized in video plugins that may be able to create/modify a plugin to 100% accurately emulate the game.
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zdude255 wrote:
Ok, I did more RAM finding, here's a bigger list. All are unsigned short.
(addresses)
I didn't go back to find some of the earlier bosses, but you can probably find it in one of the above addresses. If you still need anything else just let me know.
I also now have a saved game with all levels if you want it. PM me where and I'll email it.
Dies Happyily With a Smile on Face.
One question: do any of the world 4/5 worlds have any problems with the stages, like problematic backgrounds/graphics, massive unnatural lag due to too many sprites (i.e. 2-03, 2-08, 3-10 dash/hurdle events), or anything of that sort that's out of the ordinary?
I don't actually test the shit out of a level until I reach it, and constantly rerecording would mean the save file might get deleted at some point, so I guess it's not needed for me to have at the moment.
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The mega flip, in either MM or OoT, can you activate the infinite glitch before hand, then do a megaflip over a huge gap, then mid air drop a bombchu to get you stuck in mid air, where you can continue to bomb/chu hover the rest of the way?
HP and MP: I can see MP being helpful. BUt HP is just your health, right? it's visually displayed right there on the screen, even subtracting by 1/4ths if necessary.
For those x/y, you really need to know what you are looking for and what x/y pixel in 3D games does to know if you have the right one. X/Y/Z really os funky with 3D games since it's never clear what the frame of reference is or where the axles are aligned, but if you're moving along a straight line and one address shows your pixel position along that line, then yeah.
I also had an idea: someone can co-author looking specifically to test new things and create precision benchmarks of temples/areas/what have you, and then make an .avi starting from a savestate of the beginning of that area, whereupon the other author can spend his time assessing the .avi, and work with the actual .m64 and make sure it all synchs up.
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C'mon! All 3 of the Beast Sector's 2nd fights have beast machines that they ride that transform! Of course we need a Transformers quote.
My guess with Tarus is that when you throw the rock up and catch it again, it's spending more time in the air, and this is adding to the damage that the one single rock can do (maybe each time you throw it up and catch, you're adding on more damage it can deal). Or, it's an unintentional "sweet strat" that so many of the bosses have. Maybe not as you've told me this does not work in other fights (that we know of, but HP watching may reveal this affect in other boss fights too)
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I actually don't have any savestates past world 3 myself, but I'll try. I'm not incredibly good with the game (I've only in real time playing gotten up to the day of events), but I'll give it a shot.
I kid you not, that Migen jr. address is the exact same one I found before I started the fight. It seems to be a value that changes the exact frame that he is hit, but it does not conform to a HP number that Migen has. However, he's one of the bosses where HP watching is not needed that much, he always has 6 rounds of catchable punches after Migen sr. is defeated. (I just need to find how to shorten the amount of time spent between each catchable punch. What I originally had is 3+ seconds faster than Nitsuja's fight, but I have that itchy feeling it might be able to go lower still.)
But Chilly Dog, Lunar, Cerebus Alpha; good finds there, that'll be mighty helpful.
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In order to find out all of the secrets of the super backflip, I guess a few points need to be addressed:
-What buttons are pressed? (This is important)
-Is it caused by backflipping during/after a source of damage, or do you need to activate the infinite sword (like with the bomb-stored jump)
If it's caused by damage:
From what I saw in one video with using Nayru's love, A bomb was placed, and during the explosion Link was knocked backwards without taking damage (because of NL.) During the time when Link is sliding back, a normal backflip is done, and he performs the mega flip.
If it's caused by infinite glitch:
I remember a MM vid doing this, dropping a bomb, inifite off of the bomb, then switch to Zora, then backflip. If it requires the inifnite without NL, then maybe you need to find a grabable object or a monster in the room, activate inifnite, then mega flip.
but like I said, we don't have a conclusive method of how to do it. all we have are:
-a vid for it in MM
-a vid for OoT with NL
- a vid for OoT, fuzzy, hard to see (Link rolls through a bomb as it explodes, then does a megaflip shooting down some stairs for major distance gain.)
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I'm going to be a meanie-poo and not show anything until submission, as I promised. You'll love the surprise factor, trust me. Sorry if that's not the answer you wanted.
BUT.
I am 35 in-game frames ahead currently at 1-10. So redoing was not a wasted effort, I improved 5 stages, some by significant amounts (if you count 0.37 hundredths of a second significant.*) Plus, I have ideas for more time saved in world 2. And I constantly watch the vids of future levels and think of improvements.
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stone tower: is it faster to hookshot the very top of the target blocks and climb up on top of them (a very quick motion iirc), then shoot to the next (you'll be higher up and closer to the next target), or is it better to do what you did, which seems slow since you have to fall down, then look back up and have to shoot a farther distance then what I described.
I think you need to be on the ground to hookshot. but it should work with the bow. where it'd save time, I dunno, but I also know that you can fire in the middle of a sidehop. The way you do this is by pressing the C button to be in the "aiming" 1st person view, and then you can hold z and backwalk, sidehop, whatever.
Hm. Maybe I should actively help out in some way when the v2 starts...
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I think the backflip slingshot trick Guano did use in the v2 WIP. I wonder if that trick has an overall use in many places, or if it's just for getting monsters high above you. (I think the MM TAS should use it.)
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I talked with Reik and he believes this strat was already tested to be slower. Good creative thinking though.
Almost at world 2 now... shouldn't be too long hopefully before I'm back where I was, except with faster times for most of the stages.
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Um.... it'd be glitchless any%, and 'no BLJing' was already agreed to be the restriction of the movie to make sense for why you'd have to collect 70 stars.
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I got it to work, and the sky looks perfect. However, I believe you get a few problems with seeing some things through walls, so there's a tradeoff I guess.
See for yourself: Runway Demo Encode
I highly recommend for everyone to at least re-watch the movie with rice 6.1.1, just to see the run without any crap sky effects. It might turn a no/meh vote or two.
Bisqwit wrote:
I don't apparently have that plugin, so I'll postpone my encoding.
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AKA wrote:
plus how come the NES submissions never recieved this kind of treatment.
They did back in the day. This isn't a boo-hoo from people complaining only because it's a N64 frame war.
Also, I don't think I'm going to vote on any 1 star anymore. I'd probably vote yes, but I just don't care too much. I'll wait until a 0, 70, or 120 star new submission is made.
Also, to those that want the 16 star back... from a site standpoint, it really can't come back ever. There's just no way to have it as a legit category. It's goal was "fastest time using glitches" and 1 star is "fastest time using the same glitches". If you want glitchless, you have to settle for 70 star. So there's no real way it can come back, because the category itself has been obsoleted.
Someone can make one for fun though, and not submit it but merely post it in the SM64 thread.
I would have mentioned Sonic Advance 2, as that's what I think of for the best GBA run ever. Despite it being submitted a long time ago, it's also very optimal; I once tried out of curiosity and couldn't save any frames anywhere, period.
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That's certainly a strat to think about and test. You can catch and drop those laser balls very fast, so if what you say is true, you can get on top and catch/drop until he's dead and this would beat the WR. How do you make Lunar keep doing the laser blast though? I thought he did a certain number of blasts, then went back to firing missiles like in Nitsuja's WIP.
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The modified plugin still has problems (it even added one of its own, though it wasn't supposed to) so I'm still working on that. The general idea is that I'll keep TASing with jabo's for now, and along the way or prior to submission the right plugin/settings will be found, and those will be hexed in/used in the sub text.
I actually should be stressing about frame counts; more accurately about reducing the time for each stage, since this game is played competitively to get the lowest S-Ranks as possible. The MM speedrunners will see a 3 frame difference, and untrained eyes might not notice, but myself and the speedrunners will know if a certain stage's time can be faster; and viewers will see lower times far shorter than the previous TAS WIP or compared to the WRs; and I'll be able to confidently say that most of the stages have been lowered to the absolute limit. Also, I've gotten so good with the game that I can procure improvements in my head, as well as figure out what the theoretical limits to some stages are. And lastly, I want this run to be absolutely perfect, and while I've redone this twice now, this 3rd version is doing incredibly well.
As for the bosses, the most important are:
-Migen jr.
-Go Marzen 64
-Chilly Dog
-Lunar
-Cerebus Alpha
-Toadly Raw
-Moley Cow
-Sasquatch Beta
-Merco
-Phoenix Gamma
-Final Fight
The rest are either easy 1 hit KO's or require a certain number of hits that I can easily memorize. But these specific fights either have varying ways to receive different amounts of damage, or a different technique might be faster that could be found with HP watching. Big thanks in advance if you do find any of these.
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Halamantariel is correct. Also, IF a stage can be improved by at least 1 frame (1 input frame), that will be in-game time saved, unless you possibly reduce the lag in doing so and the timer ends up longer anyways (only happened to me once on 1-03.)
Also, zdude255, can you use your awesome magical powers and help me find some HP values for the bosses and mini bosses of this game? (I suspect knowing all of the HP addresses will help me in these most random of fights. How perfect this movie becomes heavily depends on this I suspect.)
-Wormin' up (not needed, since we know OHKO to exist)
-The gun clancer in Western World
-Flambee
-Migen Jr. (I think I have this one, but it's not consisten damage wise)
-Clance War (is there an overarching HP address for all of these robot type mini bosses?)
-Go Marzen 64
-Chilly Dog
-Lunar
-Cerebus Alpha
-Toadly Raw
-The 7 clancer kids
-Clarina
-Tarus (not needed)
-Moley Cow
-Sasquatch Beta
-Clance War II
-Counterattack (not needed?)
-Merco
-Trapped
-Phoenix Gamma
-Inner Struggle
-Final Fight
If you can find (any of) these, that'd be totally awesome.
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andrewg wrote:
luigi's misfire in ssbm makes him move pretty fast, but thats for GCN.
Isn't Samus's Super Wave Dash faster? It outpaces Jigglypuff's fastest move, which holds the unassisted WR for that F-Zero X 'beat the clock' stage in adventure mode...
Edit: I know you weren't considering N64 games but I just remembered that Marina's down C boost move can put her at a vertical speed of -12 pixels per frame (iirc)
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Bisqwit wrote:
Also, I wonder what's up with pointing the camera towards the floor when running. It doesn't look very cool.
This is a speedrunning method that is used in real time in order to reduce lag from not having the game drawing lots of polygons in some levels, and if I remember correctly, isn't needed on mupen (for some reason which escapes me.) However, RT found this out a little while later after some stage; I'm not sure at what point, but he stopped doing it as much (as compared to if he would have looked down the entire time, as originally planned.)
I do know that looking down can help you make some tighter turns around corners, and you can move the camera up or down oh so slightly to affect luck, and while it looks weird at first do know it's use was originally to reduce lag (which ended up not being needed) and to prevent the audience from seeing the screwed up sky textures. A future TAS should not have it all (unless for really tight turnarounds and luck manip) because of fixed graphics.
I hope that was clear.
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bkDJ wrote:
comicalflop wrote:
I want everyone's thoughts on this matter.
You a 4channer, or do you have other means of obtaining all those macros you like posting? :)
Anyway, I'm having flashbacks to your DKC2 TAS which was redone... what, 10 times? Either way, that product came out amazing, so if the effort you put into this is anything similar, then I'm sure any redo will be worth it.
Though, shouldn't you check to see if the plugin you're using actually renders more of the game correctly than any other plugin, before getting too far again?
Bisqwit wrote:
That way, you can be saved from doing wasted work even if nobody happens to guess your mind like Comicalflop did.
My mind reading should never be in doubt ^^
It was redone 8 times. And even then it still needs one final redo, as it was good when it came out, but became bad in comparison to Arne's. I believe I'm putting far more effort into this; the rerecord count is higher, everything is super-uber-duber optimized, I test out far more things, redo when necessary, and keep using outside-the-box-thinking to come up with new techniques and time savers. I've changed and improved a lot since fall last year.
I mentioned before about the plugins... TASing wise, I'll keep going with what I have, all of the plugins as far as I know are fully synch compatible and can be hexed into the .m64 at will. Over the course of the TAS if a superior plugin is found, then it will be used for submission/recommended.
It seems that some plugins correctly emulate some parts, but there's no one overarching plugin that covers everything the TAS needs, which is:
-world 2's background textures
-world 4's lighting effects
-mathfun's questions
-intro cutscene when Theo is kidnapped
-invisible boulder in 4-01 (the TAS doesn't need this actually, since even the speedrun goes too fast before it appears, but it's worth mentioning.)
The mixture of plugins available might correctly emulate some, but then incorrectly emulate something else.
If anyone wants to noodle around some, feel free. Nitsuja's gln64 0.4.1.1 came closest, so if anyone wants to mess around with the source code please do so. I have little computer skills and messed up my rice plugin the last time I tried screwing around with settings.
Redoing was an awesome idea... 1-01, 1-02, 1-04 all saved some frames, and 1-05 is saving major time. And that's just the beginning...
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Hm dunno what to think. I wasn't bored, and I watched through it all and didn't fast forward or anything. I think it's a good run and you seem to be doing it pretty well (I think there's a few spots where I tried to analyze, but I know nothing of PoP mechanics so I have no idea), so keep it up. Oh, and don't turbo if you can help it, frame advance ensures perfection.
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Deja vu! why?
-Another SM64 submission
-Yes vote from me (I don't think I'd ever vote no on these runs, there's not enough for me to give it a no)
-Hated the camera angles
These three things never change.
What I want now:
-An absolute proven fastest time for 1 star, or a 0 star submission, so that the low% category for SM64 can be left alone and other categories focused on
-Use MHS and memory watching for extreme optimzation. I found an address that shows speed on a sub pixel scale. Use it!
-Please, Please, Please, better camera angles. FODA and spezzafer STILL have the best camera angles, watch what they do and keep the camera a good distance away from Mario and pan it around so you see the direction he's going and a good portion of the level showing.
I'm going to be a meanie-poo and not show anything until submission, as I promised. You'll love the surprise factor, trust me. Sorry if that's not the answer you wanted.
BUT.
I am 35 in-game frames ahead currently at 1-10. So redoing was not a wasted effort, I improved 5 stages, some by significant amounts (if you count 0.37 hundredths of a second significant.*) Plus, I have ideas for more time saved in world 2. And I constantly watch the vids of future levels and think of improvements.