Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I unfortunately deleted all of my SMK vids when I switched to MK64. A google search also did not bring up anything, but I can try noodling around a little more to see if I can find an infi-boost vid.
I also created a page that I'll use for a compilation of all TASes of the courses in SMK, MK64, and SC (if someone will do that... I'm surprised no one has, GBA is rerecording.)
Edit: my encode of MC1 came out much better than I expected, so I'll be encoding all courses..
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I discussed with both Fried and Weatherton over IM and both agreed that MMF is very tricky, so it's going to be hard regardless of who does it. Given time, it'll get done, no worries, but perfection comes first. This is what I signed up for.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
youtube won't fit them all in one avi. individual levels I can see (10 courses so far).
youtube screws up the quality, so no need to make a DeHackEd encode go to waste... Huffers, if you PM me the entire .smv I can confirm it works and encode each seperate course, and possible create a site that documents each separate course for both SMK and MK64 as one large compilation with youtube embeds. (might be very helpful for those following along... SMK is halfway done but MK64 is still a long ways to go.)
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I think this best describes the circular progress of this game in general. It takes hours to gain seconds of driving, and then I have to go back and try it in a different way, or optimize it more. (I'm actually thinking test runs of each stage aka 120 Star would be beneficial, I'll look into that.)
There's a theoretical shortcut, which 1) hasn't been done yet, and 2) I mentally calculated to be slightly slower. So no shortcut for this stage. In the end, too many courses all with the same boost off CPU trick will get boring, and don't you want to see some killer expert driving as well?
MMF is tricky; it's very bouncy. you get too much speed, and you'll be in the air and then tossed like a rag doll. sometimes you'll want to go down a steep hill, but you're going too fast, and you're in the air; you go faster on downhills. Knowing which hills to go up and which to go down takes a lot of testing. I have to constantly watch my speed (I am actually very in favor of the end .m64 having the beginning C-right input being taken out so that the entire run is shown with the mini map.) The moles are luck manipulatable, which also means that at random times I'll have shroomed around a fence and WHAM! get suddenly hit by one.
Lessee, tack on some mushroom manipulating troubles every now and then, throw on a sprinkle of family reasons that can make me not work on this (early bed time, "get off computer!", etc. I swear, I can get more done at college), and have a final topping of Fried-making-sure-I-redo-segments-to-gain tiny-amounts-of-frames? That right there is the Mario Kart 64 150cc GP TAS Sundae Ice Cream in a nutshell!
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I never expected to see:
Zurreco wrote:
I'm glad that you don't deny your failure, at least. If you already knew that the picture wasn't him, though, then that demonstrates a lot of desperation on your part. “I must somehow poke fun at erroky's quotes, despite their scathing nature towards me, without looking like I'm just bumping my postcount!”
Someone who utterly, completely, despises me for absolutely no reason at all.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
This also happens to be the second topic started within 20 minutes of "someone take this not-so popular Mario game and TAS it."
what you should try to answer when starting posts of that intention is: "why should we?"
There is a difference between making requests of us which we would be disinclined to make, and persuading us otherwise.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
The MT's in this game are undocumented, but existent. you could say it works similar to MK64, if you hold left/right, and either L/R, and hold two of both of those at all times for 65 frames, you'll get a turbo.
and they're called mini boosts, not mini-turbos. my bad.
Super Mario Kart Physics
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I have heard nothing of the game, and I suppose this is true for others. maybe a quick description of the game, and anything about the game itself that would make it a good TAS candidate?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
the 'infi boost' where a mini turbo does not die down is caused by releasing an MT into a speed strip, and then not pressing R/L. as soon as you jump, charge up another MT, or bump into a wall/another kart it'll be lost.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
wait, so should the game use 2 controllers?
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Now that I see this run is going for real time but has already wasted 20 seconds, I’m not that interested anymore and I find it hard to support the goal of real time anymore.
it relle was not my intention at all to force you to lose interest in this run. I just feel that there was too much bickering about real time vs. mission time, and this site more prefers real time. it should not be a deterrent for you to not like it, because I'm hoping that whether someone or not will like this run will be based on the action itself, not discrepancies about time.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
ooh, nice to hear that you're still working on this. I thought that the arguments and you getting bored of stuff that people wanted submitted had thrown you off but nice improvements.
BtP is saved from going through the platform... but 11 frames saved in DK, how'd you pull that off?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I have to take those new discoveries and 100% optimize them, which can be a real pain for me. I'm not going to lie, the KD shortcut Weatherton and I developed scares the crap out of me for finding the perfect frame to do everything. (hint: think Yoshi's Island caliber of shooting eggs at perfect angles, being in the right time/place, and having everything work perfectly. Except in 3 dimensions.)
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Spider-Waffle wrote:
That is completely false, this run is going for mission time only. Real time can't be an objective on this run or he wouldn't have quit out of the first level. Also he is going to wait out cinemas for up to 20 seconds in order to save a few seconds on mission time. Mission time is all that matters. This is how speedruns are timed at SDA too.
the quitting was to change the controls to be easier to TAS if I remember correctly. This isn't SDA, we have different rules/expectations.
bkDJ wrote:
Wouter: the rules state that a TAS must begin from first power-on with no sram. that means that in most games, cinematics that are usually skipped in speedruns can't be skipped in a TAS, but that's the way it is. The only exception I know of is the super mario kart which was allowed to start from an sram with 150cc unlocked.
As far as whether this game goes for in-level time or real-time... if it's the former, like Sonic games (sometimes real-time ends up being slower if arriving too soon gives you a huge bonus countdown) then there should probably be at least one frame where the time for each level can be seen once it's done, or at least a list or something. if it's the latter then, well that's obvious.
There are other games that start from SRAM (generally it's to be avoided though, unless nescessray or will produce better results.) but so far mupen does not seem to have this function.
also, as I've mentioned before, in the submission text the mission times can be posted/listed, it's not that hard and easy to verify with someone who pauses the game with mupen and checks. plus Rising Tempest does not strike me as dishonest.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
All the TASes of individual levels so far have waited out cinemas when it would shorten the mission time. I'm pretty sure rising tempest made it quite clear he was going for mission times. If he cared at all about real time he wouldn't have quit out. Sorry to say this but I think the vast majority of the comunity cares about mission time more than anything else. That's the way it's always been.
Even the perfect dark TASer decided going for real was a bad idea and went in favor of mission time.
The TASes of individual levels were the latest level in the .m64, so RT can play around and show off the in-game time and head kills because the next level isn't started yet (most wips have this sort of playaround capability.) The vast majority of the GE speedrunners probably care about mission time, not so much the TAS viewers/members. This is because (I'm assuming) GE runners play individual levels, and try to optimize one level to have the lowest mission time possible. On this site, we try to beat the game as fast as possible.
And the PD run is not aiming for mission time:
L4yer wrote:
It's not possible in the first level because of a glitch.. the only way could have been bailing out of the speech skip halfway but even then sub 1:30 is doubtful as time can't be regained from not doing the skip. And I'd rather not have the opening cinema the first thing you see. 1:20 should be possible for a time though, but very hard obviously.
L4yer spend aggravated months and couldn't get the lowest mission time strategy to work due to a glitch with the programmer. so he made the level be beaten in the fastest real time, as evidenced by not using copious amounts of pressing start for text skips. the 1"57 he accomplished is fastest time and is the only way possible in mupen; a shorter in-game time (the time of which I don't know) will take longer in real time and doesn't work as well, nor be as entertaining (the pause menu bores the crap out of me, despite being pretty.)
he also goes through menus really fast and doesn't spend too much real time showing off "I got this mission time!" by skipping to the next mission as fast as possible.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Yes, I think the-elite did too, the-elite is the strongest speedrunning community for any set of games. But you have to think it would end up that way after the game was made. I mean people were going for fast mission times right away because they could unlock cheats. I don't think anyone was trying to see how fast they could go through the menus. Or comparing how fast they could go through menus to other people, that just ridiculous. The menus have never been considered part of the speedrunning element of the game.
I think GE was one of the first games to inspire speedrunning on a large level, due to the target mission times.
Do try to keep in mind that this website has different goals in mind for what they want their movies to accomplish. The runs should get through the games as entertaining and as fast as possible. The speedrunning community does not consider the menus to be a part because, again, they do individual levels. There's one GE full game single segment speedrun, where Wouter skips through menus as fast as he can because he's trying to get the overall fastest time of beating the game. there is no PD single segment of the entire game yet (I want that to change...)
Both of those games (and many other N64 "get the fastest in-game time/score/whatever" types of games, of which there is too many to name) have at least some speedrunning community, and centered around individual segments of the game and optimizing everything within that time frame. everything outside that time frame- menus, showing times, etc. is ignored. Runs on this site want the entire game- menus, levels, everything- to be done as fast as possible so that the overall fastest time for the game is achieved, from power on to the last input that reaches the credits.
Rising Tempest wrote:
I've had a brilliant idea which could make 35 or even 34 seconds possible on runway, but it's going to take some time because the grenades are ridiculously tiny targets.
And whoever mentioned waiting through the cinemas, it's only going to happen at two stages. Silo, so both of the first fuel rooms will be open when I get there (this will cancel out the time spent waiting if my numbers are right), and Cradle because Trev will need a head start to get to the control dealie ahead of me.
Excellent that a 34/35 time might be possible! I hope you can nail that, and that each of the levels you've already done find some sort of improvement.
waiting through the cinemas for 2 stages doesn't to me sound too much mission time oriented, considering that's only 10% of all the 20 levels.
Also, I am a little against the quitting of the first mission, because that also has the objective to change the controls correct? I know it's easier to TAS with the "C-buttons move me" style, but it is time wasted and with tools, you should be expected to create the same amount of precision no matter which controls you use, since you're playing the game frame by frame. (especially with the TAS input plugin, you shouldn't need to change the controls.) but that's in the past, and I guess if it's easier for you, then the end product will come sooner. and who will want to obsolete an entire difficult run just to improve 7 seconds on a change of controls?
phew, I hope that covered it all. This is of course my opinion based on the differences between this site's goals and the goals of non-single segment speedrunning communities.
I'm fully willing to clarify or justify anything else that's brought up.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I couldn't get the sound to work properly for either video, so I made my own encode. (I was going to do this much earlier but forgot.)
I forgot to stop at the end of defection, so I kept encoding through to the end.
laughing_gas wrote:
comicalflop wrote:
I know it's easier to TAS with the "C-buttons move me" style, but it is time wasted and with tools, you should be expected to create the same amount of precision no matter which controls you use, since you're playing the game frame by frame. (especially with the TAS input plugin, you shouldn't need to change the controls.)
I remember that there was an article on the elite forums or something like that which "proved" that control style 1.2 was superior to 1.1, because you don't lose speed while turning / changing strafes.
I also remember from watching your input in-level that you were using 1.1... in the main menu can't you switch to 1.2 in a couple of frames? (better than GE where you have to do it in level.)
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I'd assume that the mission times are going to be listed in the submission text, and that each .m64 is going to end input on the mission status page, so that viewers can see the mission time in the way that the first vids were encoded. for the actual run, it shouldn't waste time just to show mission times, because that wastes real time and the point is to get to the end credits as fast as possible.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
He's not releasing them publicly. at least not submitting them here. (posting youtube I believe.)
Interestingly, it's showing how tight the real TT's are (as I suspected a TT TAS would be which is why I chose GP.)
some times of his:
LR 3 shroom nonsc: 31"30
LR SC no shroom: 23"15
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
you can tell when Fried is driving because the input plugin changes from max of 99 to 62. (weatherton uses the same plugin as me.) and it's not your fault for the discrepency, my bad for not initially mentioning it. (I thought I had.) Fried is now off doing some TT TAS's, aiming to beat WR flaps, and hopefully Weatherton will get the ball rolling on a 2P vs. run in addition to testing future courses.
TheFrigz: spot on. exactly that shortcut that no one had ever successfully nailed.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
What about just doing everything in speedometer, then hex edit in two different versions, one for each display type. Or you could just do more hex editing to take out the mid-level view changes.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I use it and they/anyone else don't spam me ever.
But my previous statement still stands; if someone needs an AVI to watch, there's nothing wrong with it.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Some people just can't bother getting the ROM/emulator to work either. it's just the way it is.
If someone thinks something is too much work, that's fine.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Micro management is a pain. however, just wait until you have to macro as well.
Concept demo? nah, it should fit in the N64 section. one campaign will, for the time being, count as a game completion, as you get to end credits and all. it should move to the concept if at a later time all 6 missions are completed.
In-game time is checked at the end, when it shows the stats of the mission i.e. how many units killed, points, buildings razed, etc.
How's the desynch situation?
I think this best describes the circular progress of this game in general. It takes hours to gain seconds of driving, and then I have to go back and try it in a different way, or optimize it more. (I'm actually thinking test runs of each stage aka 120 Star would be beneficial, I'll look into that.)
There's a theoretical shortcut, which 1) hasn't been done yet, and 2) I mentally calculated to be slightly slower. So no shortcut for this stage. In the end, too many courses all with the same boost off CPU trick will get boring, and don't you want to see some killer expert driving as well?
MMF is tricky; it's very bouncy. you get too much speed, and you'll be in the air and then tossed like a rag doll. sometimes you'll want to go down a steep hill, but you're going too fast, and you're in the air; you go faster on downhills. Knowing which hills to go up and which to go down takes a lot of testing. I have to constantly watch my speed (I am actually very in favor of the end .m64 having the beginning C-right input being taken out so that the entire run is shown with the mini map.) The moles are luck manipulatable, which also means that at random times I'll have shroomed around a fence and WHAM! get suddenly hit by one.
Lessee, tack on some mushroom manipulating troubles every now and then, throw on a sprinkle of family reasons that can make me not work on this (early bed time, "get off computer!", etc. I swear, I can get more done at college), and have a final topping of Fried-making-sure-I-redo-segments-to-gain tiny-amounts-of-frames? That right there is the Mario Kart 64 150cc GP TAS Sundae Ice Cream in a nutshell!
just keep at it!