Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Great news! Goldwood is done!!
wow that took a while and a lot of effort. phew.
Starting on SS Anubis tonight. Hopefully some rooms can be done WAY faster than SDA, already studying how each room is done, planning strategies. it's here when Marshmallow's mistakes start losing time. However, the truly faster speed will come in Tawfret and afterwards, when more explosive weapons and Floyd becomes accesible.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
They were tool assisted-lite. it used savestates, not slowdown, so it was in real time. So he redid levels over and over until he got the desired effect, but they weren't optimal. In the Super Smash Bros. thread he actually posts a link to his movie, you'll notice a huge difference between our movies.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
the optimal pacifist kills (I beat the video I was studying by ~1 second for each pacifist kill); I got 2 seconds on Pikachu and Metal Mario; BtT and BtP were done in record time; Samus fight; all the Team fights, with perfect cutter placements; the masterhand hand fight. Those are all impossible to replicate the way I did in real time.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
yeah it's too late with the interpreter, I'm a little too far ahead to restart again. Hope that's ok and that you can get it to work, but interpreter was giving me some graphic problems as well and would've been more taxing on my computer.
about the red key guy... the loading point that makes him start to walk towards you is huge. he has a wide radius, so at the time I figured trying to be closer to him by jumping and landing next to him is trivial, because I have to walk the opposite direction anyways. And I tested it, and they take the same amount of time to reposition themsleves to talk to you, no matter your location. If you're right next to them by jumping, they'll walk away a distance and take the same amount of time to wait before talking.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Juno's jump is not much at gaining distance. But in that scenario I could probably save about, say, 10 frames, not worth it IMO. In general jumping makes you lose a little bit of momentum. You'll notice I jump around that big guy with the rockets, but I did that because at that angle he blocks my way. I also take that shot into the wall to get past him without slowing down at all, which you can see in frame advance, without shooting he'd drop to 1/2 speed in one frame.
The machine gun to trigger the door segement was difficult, it was pure luck that at time that I started shooting I could enter the door just as it was opening. That was a tricky shot. I'm curious as to how aiming at aerial units will work with the machine gun- I'm hoping I can direct the recoil to directly aim the next shot at the next enemy, but maybe that's wishful thinking. Gotta finish a few more rooms before I get to see.
Currently I'm at the second ruins, and it's tough because the ants that you have to kill to trigger the door don't seem to have the "one shot head-shot" so I have to make extra shots, with the machine gun and pistol, to ghost 'em. And There's two that I missed initially, and I have to make sure to get them all. But with planning I think I ghosted em all so far, so as long as I keep firing at a drone until the exact frame to stop it's "overkill" and they ghost. I truly hope the one shot headshot can kill later drones needed for trigger doors. Thank god explosionss do that for big enemies.
Edit: phew just finished those ruins. the route looks a little weird, but I saved mucho time. It was tricky, because two of the drones were hiding. One I had to aim and shoot at with the machine gun, then switch and snipe the sniper, save the tribal, then strafe around the structure to get another hiding drone. marshmallow was right in that they hide sometimes in weird places. (an overscreen map with enemy/you positions would do wonders for this game.) It was a taste of some of the levels to come where I need to trigger doors, but those'll usually be more squarish and I'll have better weapons.
Currently roughly 1 minute 34 seconds ahead of the SDA run. Tool assistance does wonders to this game.
Just three more areas to go, and then Goldwood (not Goldenwood as I miscalled it) will be done. Thank god.
Oh, another thing: when strafing I face a weird angle, so when I switch to aiming I have to turn around a lot to face fowards. That happens three times in this area. In the future I'll try to find a way around this. (possibly normal walk with C-buttons while aiming?) I don't lose too much time when doing this, but it's something to remember for the future.
And strafe running is proven to be faster- in the exit doorway, I tested running and straferunning, and saved 8 frames in a small distance with strafing. So that'll accumalate over time nicely, but will make some shots difficult.
Here's a WIP for anyone interested:
Goldwood WIP second ruins cleared, 3 rooms to goSavestate
if anyone wants to review it while I'm sleeping in that'd be nice, if anyone finds major flaws before I finish the last 3 areas let me know. (I'm hoping it's flawless so that it'd be unnescessary. me and restarting do not equate very well. Blame DKC2 102% v1-7.)
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
That .m64 using interpreter (jetforcegemini-comicalflopv2.m64) does not desynch for me. It selects the start screen, then selects z as the name, and goes to the intro. did you delete the .fla file? do you have right settings etc. etc. that stuff? are you using my current .m64 (jetforcegemini-comicalflop2controller.m64) because that's the one I'm working on.
Speaking of which:
latest WIP (the current one, 2 controller decompiler)
thoughts?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
oh.
the .m64 with interpreter doesn't desynch for me when I replay it on my mupen, but when I replay it it runs incredibly slowly on my computer. I dunno, I'm a little confused, I'm just going to keep going with the .m64 that I have with the recompiler, is that ok?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Yeah I see what you mean... So interpreter makes it desynch?
I'll just stick to what I have with the decompiler and keep going. No sense in another restart if it wouldn't work.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
This is true. Fortunately (for me) the game I'm running is a combo between third person and first person shooting, and third person shooting shooting still gives a great view of the character and his/her surroundings.
For this game, I actually noticed Turok's strafe speed is so fast, that seeing a lot of the environment/enemeis is not possible. I had to stop watching like 3 times because I was starting to get a midl headache form the screen going by so fast. (in a good way most of the time.)
One more thing is entertainment. I noticed in nfq's run that the only nescessary enemies in the levels that he killed were the ones that triggered sequences or the ones in the caverns that he killed with the knife. Lots of kills he made purely for fun, because he could and not lsoe speed. Definetly go for that, and see if you can kill as many enemies on the side for entertainment as possible without losing ammo options for bosses.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I remember downloading the ROM and it not working very well at all. (or maybe it was another Star Wars game that didn't work. wouldn't hurt to check.) but of all 4 star wars N64 games, (shadows of the empire, Naboo mission, podracer, rogue squadron) rogue squadron would be the best because you fly around in the ships all the time and it'd be similar to Starfox.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Alright. In order to make progress resume (since this is a long project, and every day working on it counts) is it alright if I continue working on the current WIP that I have?
Edit: The AVI has the intro run slowly because the FPS during that segment is incredibly high I'm guessing. However, for gameplay and during cutscenes it runs extremely fine (because those both ran at FPS or 40-60), so if under the recompiler that I used it starts to work that's what I'm sticking with, the slow intro can be ignored because the gameplay and cutscenes were perfect.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I actually did not receive any desynchs while making it without interpreter. But, IF (and only IF) it really will make the AVI easiest to make (i.e. without it the AVI quality will be terrible/unable to be made) then I guess, despite the great progress I made that I'll redo again. But I really do not want to have to redo again, this is a lot of work. and it took me all day today to have gotten this far... although I have all of tomorrow and plenty of time for the next few days.
Edit: ok, here's a .m64 using interpreter. I noticed that the intro ran much slower for me, and that in general the FPS was lower. I don't think that, for me vieweing on the emulator that it would look good. The gameplay would definetly suffer on my part, going in frame advance it'll seem a little choppy and reviewing it in real time I don't know how it'd turn out. Could you make an AVI of that and see how the intro turns out?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I recall Mukki's Gex 64 had similar problems where he had to end his movie. So something to remember. I tried ending input so that the "area cleared" stats would show.
I was disappointed that some drones, no matter which frames I shot, wouldn't get a head shot on first try, which is why I had to shoot them 2 or 3 times. But many rapid shots like I did with a few of them would make their head pop off, so that's fortunate. And the machine gun does a great job, if most of the bullets connect of acheiving that. Only question is whether or not if I snipe a drone from far away whether it'll make them take a long time to die or not, from my 1 controler .m64 I actually turned around and sniped a drone in one area, and his head went clear off, so I dunno.
Edit: using interpreter makes it desynch, after I shoot the flying drones. so that's no good. switching it back to decompiler made it not desynch, so that's what I'll be using.
Does that mean that anyone who sets their mupen to interpreter is going to have it desynch as well?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Alright did some testing, so as I make it have the general setting as interpreter? Or is not nescessary on my part? I assume it would be convenient for others, because they can change the setting in their mupen. Or does it not work that way?
I'll keep the setting in my mupen as interpreter from now on, see if it works. Unless it starts to tax my laptop, then I'm just going to have to keep it with what I had.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
How do I use interpreter or pure interpreter? (.... and what is it?) I hope it's not something I have to set at the beginning.
And yeah I noticed the intro was a bit shorter.
as promised, WIP: Goldenwood "first area cleared"
11 seconds faster than marshmallow's, and ~1 second faster than my previous version.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Twisted eye: Thanks a bunch, I'll take a look at the movie. The TAS Input Plugin is my friend, I'm starting to less and less use my gamepad and more and more use the plugin. It's become about 50/50 now. I use the gamepad for pusing the fire/weapon switch buttons, and for the plugin to hold down buttons and tilt the analog. and the keyboard for frame advance.
DeHackEd: Mupen blew itself up? hehe... thnx for AVI, hopefully you'll find right settings for making it work.
I restarted the run using two controllers ingrained. I've already made improvements and just finished the underground section in Goldenwood, but thanks for offering to try and insert two controllers into the 1 controller .m64. I got it covered.
I can submit a WIP of the first "area cleared" as soon as I finish *within* the next hour. (estimated.)
Edit: That AVI was very high quality, it didn't have the weird thing in the upper left corner and the graphic bug of weird colors spikes was gone. What's weird is that I didn't start moving for a while as soon as I had control, hopefully that won't show up in the new .m64 I'm working on. My guess is to make the analog moving beforehand to ensure that the character moves on the first possible frame.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
The TAS input plugin does have auto hold, with the popup window by clicking the check box of a button it becomes held down, and right clicking the box turns it to turbo. Really helps me for my strafing in Jet Force Gemini, and will definetly help here.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Sure, that'd be great.
Just got to the underground section, killed more drones for entertainment purposes without losing any speed, all head shots so far, and killed the sniper drone earlier to activate the door sooner. The only thin that looks like a mistake is rescuing tribal #2 and 3, but Juno has veyr poor traction when changing direction espececially if starfing, so I normal walk to get to a better position and I think saved a teensy bit of time as compared to the last one in that regard, and probably saved 1-2 seconds overall, though I haven't checked.
Overall, it looks smoother, and more drones meet a grisly head shot fate without losing speed which is more entertaining. In fact, I make 3 fast kills right after the two tribals (one of them you have to use frame advance to see, I was suprised I shot him at the angle) and 5 frames later kill the sniper, which looks pretty cool IMO. I'll work all of tonight and see how far I get, and get a WIP up before I call it a night.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
well, good to see you posting again Arne. I'm obviously going to be improving my 102%, I was thinking about any% but even though I had saved 10 frames from inside the warps, I had absoluetely no luck with the boss. So I'm probably going to drop any%, especially since I'm also doing Jet Force Gemini which is going to take up a lot of time, so doing any% as well is a bad idea.
so yeah work on any% unless you get too frustrated. (In which case I'll pick it up.) I didn't think start+select after hitting the target would work. I wonder if there's anything new that you've discovered about the game.
Tompa has discovered a few things with DKC1 101%, so that'd be something to think about also.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Because of high demand, I am restarting using 2 controllers. Good thing I had my backup 2nd .m64 all ready and waiting for me. Just got to the huge introduction within Goldenwood that explains to kill the drones, free the tribals, etc. After exiting my ship I try to travel in a straighter line, and in the area with the first trigger door I killed the flying drones faster, and shoot the green guy to avoid having to jump over him (I can't do that the first time, because I don't have a good angle to shoot him. Those drones die to explosions as well, so I only take two shots in their direction, and the first one that dies kills the third one. hehe.
I'm a little miffed to starting over, but it's for the best I guess. I can probably improve the sniper drone kill, by shooting him earlier, improve the crate by a half second, probably run in straighter lines in a few areas and maybe some other miniscule improvements.
Here's a WIP to satisfy curiosity:
Jet Force Gemini V2
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
1.2 ROM, if I recall from your post way back in the N64 wishlist, correct? Anyways, in selecting the movie file it'll say if you have the right ROM or not with the CRC ID#.
Also, I wanted to see that run for a while after seeing that it had expired. I'll take a look.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
bkDJ wrote:
shouldn't you play through the game before you tas it? I just can't imagine playing optimally through something if it's my first time playing ever. (note I haven't looked at the wip yet nor have I played the game so I'm not one to judge quality, I'm just saying.)
edit: also adding a second controller would require inserting four empty bytes every four bytes, and also changing the bytes that represent the number of controllers to two and maybe other stuff (it's been a while since I've looked at the exact making of a .m64) and most importantly you'd have to hope that having an idle second controller would not affect the random elements.
Somone else brought this up in the SDA... it's just my style, I did play with the ROM a bunch when I first downloaded it, and while I haven't played the game through I've become familiar enough with TASing it.
to solve the problem of not having played it:
1) I have Twisted Eye's route and the SDA run, I am extremely good at knowing where stuff is and how to do things by watching real time videos, as evident by my DKC2 102%, and SSB Kirby High Score
2) I'm going to in each room/area play normally, before I start TASing to just noodle around and see if I can find the trigger for the door. those playing around in rooms will be my test runs, since a "test run" of the entire game is not possible at all, because it requires memorization of the whole game- I'm memorizing parts of the game on little bit at a time.
3) I'm using personal intuition and playing style to find the fastest way to do things.
And, apparently my friend Tony mentioned that he has JFG and that he'll bring it to the dorms, we have a N64 in the room next to ours. So there'll be that, but I'm more about test running for barely more than a minute ahead and TASing/focusing per room, already knowing that the route I have laid out is perfect. (Which we'll need to determine btw, I think Twisted Eye's is good, but we'll see.)
About the second controller, I have a 2nd .m64 with 2 controllers that ends right at the very start of Goldenwood. I found that, it'd be a much larger file, and the frame count is all messed up, it goes by twos instead of ones, which throws me off a little. Nitsuja's plugin should work, but here's a big thing:
I don't know what Floyd in action looks like, I don't remember him being used in the SDA run. If I had a clear concept of what it looks like when he's used, I'd have more reason to use him. I just keep getting the idea of him blocking up the screen and shooting with a weak double plasma pistol. if someone could get a video or can accurately describe what it looks like when he's in action (he doesn't come until the swamp world so I can't reach him) that'd greatly affect my decision.
Also any way to incorporate 2 controllers without affecting my progress would be great. I don't know how inserting bytes into it to make 2nd controller work, or if it would screw everything up. I hope I won't have to redo with my 2nd .m64 already set up, but if I can't get my 1 controller .m64 to get a 2nd controller and if everyone proves that Floyd is going to save time, then I'll try to get it in.
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Hmm, yeah, have you given a lot of thought to which weapons, weapon refills, and weapon capacity upgrades to pick up along the way? (I seem to recall that the treasure chests containing the weapons will give out more than one copy of the weapon if you can get more than one character to that chest, but each capacity upgrade can only be taken once ever.)
Yes I've spent a great deal thinking about it. I've tried thinking about which weapons to skip, and for speed I think, similar to MMX 2 that picking up upgrades can only speed things up in the end. Weapon refills are not a biggie, the enemies frop ammo for whatever gun you're holding at the moment, I'll be saving shots anyways, and most ammo in crates are a long the way. Capacity upgrades are a big deal, meaning with my conserving of shots that less ammo is needed to be picked up. the geminiy capacity is good to increase health, because life is going to be a resource, I know I was able to redo the underground without taking damage at all but that's not going to hold for the next 4 hours of play. (I already got hit when getting the machine gun, although I manipulated the drone standing in the way to not block my path.)
Twisted Eye wrote:
Oh, someone's going to pick this up? Awesome. The SDA run did an excellent job but with these techniques I'm not surprised you've already saved, what, almost a minute?
Seriously though, if you're going to get the fastest time, you need to use Floyd. There's really no going around it. It's not just the double plasma ammo, it's also the ability to play around during the long running sequences. Zoom in with R and you have two crosshairs that can dance around each other or chase each other or write words etc. etc. while you're running running running, which you'll be doing a lot of. It'll keep the movie watchable.
I'm going to check out your WIP now, looking forward to good stuff!
OH and to whomever was complaining about desyncs: Uncheck Raw Data. That's the key. Make sure it stays off when you're making the run, too.
--Alright, I really loved the run so far! Even with the strafing there wasn't a whole lot of "hey let's look at the wall textures repeat" and all those heads bouncing around are always fun. Pro tip: On levels that don't require you collecting the tribals, shoot them instead! Their heads come off and are collectible, though they don't give you 'cheats' every 100 collected like the bug heads do.
Busting open that box for the yellow key could be done better I would hope, but I'm not going to nitty-gritty you and ruin your motivation. Losing half a second at the start of a four-hour-plus run isn't going to kill anyone.
I stand by my earlier statement about Floyd. With this spiffy TAS input plugin it seems like he would be easier to control! Wish I had that back when I did my testrun with a half-broken gamecube controller...
Just use the path I outlined in the text file in the first post, and do the in level parts how the SDA run does them, but in any area where you only have to kill one or two guys, it's cooler to just ignore everyone else ;) And try to never get hit, trust me, it won't be impossible. Really, with Floyd around, no one should ever even get close to you. With him you can kill two guys per input--oh I can't WAIT to watch those screens of flying enemies get decimated in a smooth pattern and in the space of a second while still walking sideways to the door. Woohoo! I don't really know if he'll help during the bosses--spamming those tri-rockets is going to be laggy enough yet strong enough--but the in-level stuff will definitely be helped.
If you need any help figuring out that text file I sloppily wrote for myself or anything, I'm willing to help. I might peruse the SDA run again to think of better ways to do things but I really believe he nailed it, as far as in-level stuff is concerned.
Good luck with this, you are a braver, more patient man than I could hope to be ;)
Yep, I've just signed away the rights to all of my free time for the next 1-2 years. :P
The Strafing is a little difficult, because I have to test 360 different degrees, and also whether I should be pressing left or right C. I try to run in straight lines as much as possible, but obviously corners must be turned. I hope the strafing so far looks very smooth.
For shooting tribals, is that when you're just going through a level and not collecting them? Is it when you go back and save them with a different character? I'd have to look for cases like that, if I can squeeze that in, otherwise if it wastest times than not. I love the AI of this game, the tribals stop their work, and run towards you. :)
The yellow key segment was 3 seconds faster than an earlier version I did. I shot the crate twice beforehand, and from the angle I was going at I had to wait and run up against it a little bit or else I'd miss the crate, plus I also shot the drone with a headshot by accident and was at the optimal angle to get both tribals in one strafe, so I'm keeping it.
Remember, when strafing the aiming of the shots is a little weird. Unless you're close to an enemy, you shoot at a very strange angle, not straight in front of you if you were normal running.
Your text file looks like a great route, but it could be a little more detailed, it definetly was confusing. If you could explain it or update it to be much more detailed that'd be great.
Titus Kwok wrote:
w00t
not sure how, but I got it working, and I have a good savestate
good to hear!
This is going to be the best and most difficult run that I have ever or probably will ever work on. I really look foward to it. I also will absolutely love everyone to contribute everything and anything possible- routes, test runs, ideas, strategies, techniques, input, etc.
