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MAJOR UPDATE (at least in my opinion it's major):
I've been playing around with getting CD games functioning in JPC-rr.
I've created a new FreeDOS boot image (HDD instead of floppy) that installs the CD-ROM driver.
Then I made a CD image of Warcraft (well the data portion at least--JPC doesn't support CD-DA discs).
I then assembled JPC with the following settings:
*The new FreeDOS boot image mounted in the hda slot
*A blank 256mb disk image mounted in hdb slot
*the warcraft data CD image mounted in the CD-ROM slot
*changed boot device to hda instead of fda
I was able to perform a full-install of the game from the CD to the blank drive and run it.
Further, I was able to then dump the drive with the installed game on it to a new disk image and then re-import that dump for a new mountable game image.
I can run the game from this new game image as well (even using the floppy FreeDOS boot image) as seen below: The mouse movement is weird on this because it uses the old floppy FreeDOS without the corrected ctmouse command.Link to video
Sorry about the odd sound (it may be resulting from using a different boot disk than what I installed with).
I don't yet know about games that need to access the CD drive for data during gameplay, but this is at least a good start.
In my opinion, this may be a big step toward getting many other games to work with JPC-rr.
Still can't get Star Trek to work though....but I'm not giving up yet.
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UPDATE:
I've successfully created a FreeDOS boot image (based on the most recent FreeDOS 1.2 release) that automatically recognizes the CD drive for JPC-rr. As an added bonus, it loads ctmouse with the /r32 linear settings by default.
There are a few catches:
*The boot image is a HDD image, not a floppy image.
*Unfortunately, I still cannot get Star Trek to work properly.
Any progress is progress!
I'm going to try some other CD based games and see what I can accomplish.
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I was able to contact Ilari on IRC.
ST 25th Anniversary uses CD-DA for the music. CD-DA is not emulated in JPC-rr.
So even if we could use the CD version of the game, it wouldn't help with the music.
He also said that the problem with getting the CD to work in the first place is that most of the floppy images of FreeDOS used for booting don't contain CD-ROM drivers.
I'm looking into seeing if I can make a boot image that would offer this functionality.
I'll keep you guys updated.
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You guys are awesome. I love the collaboration here.
Arc wrote:
The extra point attempts can be completed faster by running forward and letting the other team tackle the kicker.
I actually figured this one out myself while testing out the stuff mentioned above. I've already updated my run,I just need someone with power to update the submission file. EDIT: Thank you, Mothrayas END EDIT
Running out of bounds did yield faster halves. As did getting tackled instead of extra points. This extra point strat specifically allowed for a major reduction of frames (that I could have done before if I had thought about it); I stopped input mid way through the kick return on the 2nd half of the super bowl, cutting out a TON of frames.
The run will still play through to the 'game over' screen. The score total is just smaller due to missed PAT opportunities.
I'll be updating the submission text and temp encode asap.
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hopper wrote:
So, here's what I've decided. I'm going to post my findings here. If you're willing to learn the craft and make a high quality TAS with that information, you can make your run and have the glory of having the first published Yars' Revenge TAS. The clock will be ticking, though. If you're unwilling or unable to make a TAS to this site's standards, I'm going to start working on mine very soon.
Donnaken15, if you indeed use hopper's info to complete a TAS, be sure to give credit for that info in the submission notes.
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Kenttsu wrote:
Early issues:
1) I haven't been able to get the sound blaster to work. I'm getting this message:
Does the game work with any other sound settings, or do they all produce this error? (obviously works without sound).
Kenttsu wrote:
2) It's one of those games that run notably faster with a faster CPU. Despite being a late era DOS game, I feel that the default 20MHz CPU speed is optimal for this run as it makes the run still relatively easy to follow despite being quite fast (with the fastest in-game speed setting).
New processors in 1995 averaged in the 150-200mhz range (see here). Even for the few years before that they were well above 20mhz. I'd bump the CPU speed up myself. This can be done by decreasing the CPU divider during assembly in JPC-rr. A CPU divider of 5 will yield a 200mhz system; 6.6.... will yield a 150 mhz system (I don't remember if you can do decimals in the CPU divider setting or not).
While the resulting video at this speed may be incomprehensible a slowed down version can be encoded as well to watch what's actually happening while still getting the shorter time for the completed TAS itself.
Kenttsu wrote:
Early observations and strategies:
-Levels can be viewed in game's editor. I'll post pics later.
-Before starting the game I set the game speed to 100% and number of players to 1 (otherwise it would start a death match mode).
-Item boxes contain random amount(?) of random items. Box's content is decided when player picks it up so RNG manipulation will be really important as some items are very expensive and can be sold.
-Getting enough money for good digging equipment and armor is probably worth it
-Player can buy teleport items (round hole) that can be used to move to the teleports that are already on the map (the second level in the test run skips half of the level)
-The fourth level and some of the later levels got several exits. But it appears that only one is available. I haven't yet tested if the exit location is random.
Use RNG manipulation as efficiently as possible to yield your best box contents within reason for frames lost to manipulation.
Look into the teleport stuff more. You may be able to cut a lot of game out using these.
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phoenix1291 wrote:
Probably a silly question, again, but how to use fastloaders?
I asked about fastloaders back in July. SaxxonPike tested a few with the core and said that some worked, but I don't believe specifics on how to use them were detailed.
I had suggested it might be implementable as an optional part of the firmware setup (assuming this is possible from a coding perspective).
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Chamale wrote:
Why is it faster to use RTA strats after the first three halves? Is it just that it's not possible to outmaneuver the AI defenders without releasing the Up button? Or is it related to the clock having only 30 seconds on it?
Correct on the timer. I tested through every half until it stopped being beneficial to run a regular play; after the first 3 halves.
Also, did you test running out of bounds instead of running directly into the defenders? For example, in High School first half, that stops the first play at your 41-yard line instead of your 44-yard line, so it's slightly sooner and will let the clock run down a bit more.
I did not consider running out of bounds.
I may look into this, but it will have to wait. I'm focused on other projects at the moment.
I'm guessing that going OOB instead of being tackled will change the RNG of what formation the defense chooses. If so, all the dodging will then need redone from scratch. If not, it may be easy to update and re-sync by simply adding L or R to go OOB then add a few frames for the extra few yards to reach the endzone.
EDIT: Ok I had a few brief moments to look at this. Running out of bounds does indeed result in a different defensive formation. I didn't yet have time to TAS in all the dodging to see if it indeed yields a faster half or not than in the current submission.
As the defense is definitely a different formation it will require at least 2-3 halves of completely redone TAS work if it is indeed faster. The reason I say 2-3 is that in the first half of college, the extra distance to run might fully run out the clock and result in a slower half than running the play as currently submitted.
I will test further as I am able. Leaving the current submission for now.
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MUGG wrote:
About the read+write thing, my problem was as follows:
I lost my leading savestates, so I played back the movie and got new savestates.
But when I loaded those states, the emulator would play until the movie's original end each time.
I deleted the movie file and the savestate's backup file, but it didn't fix the problem.
The "Truncate" option worked for me though.
"Truncate event stream" simply removes all input events beyond the current point in the loaded movie.
Savestates will always have all their input events. When loaded as a movie instead of a savestate, it will play to the end of the savestate's event stream. The savestate itself will retain its event stream even if you truncate the currently running movie. To change the savestate, overwrite it with a new save after truncating.
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I've made some progress.
Within jpc-rr, I edited the fdconfig.sys file to contain the line
device=emm386.exe RAM
I then had to edit the autoexec.bat file and delete
cutemouse
I reset the system (from the file menu).
Then tried to run the game.
This got me past the memory problem....but now freedos doesn't have the CD drive installed....I don't know how to do that part.
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MUGG wrote:
When creating an image, JPC only lets me choose between floppy and hard disk. It does not let me choose CD. (If that makes sense.)
When importing a disk image, select your CD .cue/.iso file as your 'Image file/Directory'
It should then add 'CD-ROM Disc' to the 'Image Type' drop-down box.
EDIT:MUGG wrote:
@DrD2k9
I tried to run an HD image of the (trimmed) CD version.
It tells me the game needs 560K of free low memory and 1024k of free EMS (expanded) memory.
I currently have 610K free low memory and 0K free EMS memory.
How can I set up enough memory to run the image?
Try not skipping autoexec.bat at startup. That should load the needed memory.
There's also slight possibility that memory amount in the PC settings is actually set too high. This can occasionally cause some games to think there's not enough.
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MUGG wrote:
How can I make sure the game gets enough cycles in JPC-rr?
You can set the CPU speed by adjusting the 'CPU Divider' during assembly. A higher number yields a slower emulated CPU. Divide 1 GHz by the divider number to get the effective CPU speed.
As this game was released in 1992, the default CPU speed in JPC-rr should be fairly accurate already.
As a note: the faster the emulated CPU speed is set, the slower it will appear to run while TASing or playing a movie in the emulator itself. The dumped AVI will play in a media player at the appropriate rate for the CPU speed settings.
I hope all that made sense.
Also, if I want to run the CD version, and I have the game as a .bin and .cue file, how should I proceed to run it in JPC?
I've not yet done a CD based game that required the CD to play. But I believe you can make a JPC-rr image of the CD as you do an HDD image of the installed game.
In the assembly settings I think you can set the CD drive image similar to setting the HDD image.
c-square or slamo may have better info on this.
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MUGG wrote:
I can select neither Save>Movie nor Start Dumping while I'm running the game. I can save movie before "starting" but when I "load" it later, it doesn't seem to play back.
Stop/pause the game (T) and both of those options will become available.
When you save a movie, it essentially makes a file similar to a savestate with all inputs up to the point where you save the movie. The difference between the files is the savestate file has extra information; the movie file will have minimal necessary info and input events.
Savestate files and movie files are the same file type just with slightly different information. You can open/playback a savestate as a movie file.
Once you have a saved movie file/savestate with inputs; load the movie and start dumping before starting the movie. Once the movie runs as far as you want to dump, you can stop the movie then stop dumping (also, I believe it's possible to simply close the emulator and the dump will be good).
Once you have a dump file then you can convert that to a temporary encode (avi, etc.) that you can watch on VLC or other appropriate video player.
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c-square wrote:
DrD2k9 wrote:
One note on this. Some programs accelerate the mouse movement in weird ways, so clicking and dragging doesn't always drop the cursor exactly where you stop.
This could be for two reasons.
First, ctmouse by default accelerates mouse movement, meaning that moving x by 100 has much more than double the effect of moving it by 50. You can turn off this setting by unloading ctmouse and reloading it using "ctmouse /r32". That will make it scale linearly, meaning 100 will be exactly double the movement of 50.
To check if this is the case, use the 'M' key to bring up the manual mouse movement screen and move your mouse's x by 10. Reload and move by 20. Reload and move by 30. If it's linear, then it should move equal distances between the three. If it's not, then 30 will be much bigger than three times 10.
Second, if the resolution of the mouse area is different than the games I've been playing, then it will move differently. You can adjust the sensitivity of the mouse movement by using the 'Y' key to bring up the mouse speed screen and alter the numbers till you find ones that work. Note that this will only work if the mouse is moving linearly.
Thanks! I'm pretty sure mine wasn't running linearly. Glad I wasn't very far into the Indy run. I'll try the different settings.
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c-square wrote:
Also, to move the cursor, now you just have to click on it and drag it with your own mouse cursor. No luascript needed. :)
One note on this. Some programs accelerate the mouse movement in weird ways, so clicking and dragging doesn't always drop the cursor exactly where you stop. Sometimes the resulting location will be farther than you dragged, but it will still be in the correct direction.
Example Game: Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis (yes I've started a run of this among my 20 or so other projects).
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link_7777 wrote:
Looked good to me, voted yes. I assume missing the field goal either takes longer or doesn't end the half?
I didn't think I missed any, but it doesn't matter right now. I'm cancelling this submission.
My thought on running a play and letting the timer start does indeed save a few frames in the timer countdown...at least through the first half. I'll be checking to see how many halves of play it saves time on and will re-submit a better run.
At least this time, I found my own improvements instead of someone else directly pointing out a time-saver.
The new run will look significantly different at least through the first half or so. I'll be dodging many more opponents and saving a few frames in the process. It should also be more obvious why the new method would be much harder for a human player.
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ViGadeomes wrote:
Wasn't it possible to try something more dangerous, ambitious than speedrunners around opponent's tackles ? Because here, there is not a lot of changes between matches. It's not against you but the repetition of the sound when your score increases is ugly. Good job on but not very entertaining sorry... "meh" vote.
Possible, yes. But. I didn't feel it would add enough entertainment value to bump the run to moon status, so I just did what was less time consuming for me and aimed for a Vault run. It's also significantly more time consuming to TAS more dangerous dodging of the defense while still maintaining constant vertical speed.
The annoying sound of the score is unfortunately unavoidable as the timer doesn't decrease on kick returns as it does on normal plays. Running around more won't fix that. I even tried getting tackled and running a normal play to get the timer going, but it took longer to get the touchdown that way. Though now that I think about it, the timer running may save the lost frames by having less time to count down after the touchdown. I'm going to go test this right away and will upload a new run if I find it's faster.
I'm not offended with a 'meh' vote; I'm actually surprised as I expected mostly 'no' votes on entertainment.
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I highly suggest using c-square's modified emulator. It's MUCH easier to actually complete a TAS with than trying to use menu/keyboard commands to move the mouse cursor.
I've never played the game, but I'll help out with what I can.
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Battles of World Runner has a built-in anaglyph stereoscopic 3D effect. It's activated by pressing 'Select' during play. It splits the video into R/L images that produces a 3D effect when viewed through cyan/red filter glasses as seen below.
I was curious what the programmed anaglyph stereoscopic effect combined with the 3DNES effects would look like.
Edit Side Note: I also notice that your score/info bar is on the top of the screen where on my version of BOWR it is on the bottom.
Edit Side Note: I also notice that your score/info bar is on the top of the screen where on my version of BOWR it is on the bottom.