Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
Radiant wrote:
Does the run sync if you change the RTC time value? That may be the easiest way to adjust the Arnoid. I think that anything randomized before that is only cosmetic.
I haven't tried...yet. My current WIP syncs through where I am thus far. The old run desyncs (as expected) on Phleebhut as that is the first place where RNG impacts routing.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
c-square wrote:
Okay, I've got it running, however my file list is very different than yours:
More files than mine....different (newer?) version?
Mine is from GOG; I deleted all the GOG stuff from the directory including the useless .INF files. Basically all the files that are in all CAPS are game files and the files with lower case are the added GOG stuff (exception is the .inf files).
Send me a save file and I'll try finding the rng address.
You could just pull the old submission file.
EDIT: Unless you want a save-state instead of a movie file.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
FYI: I'm about 2 seconds improved by the time the Aluminum Mallard finds Phleebhut on the Navigation scanner. Better, but not by alot.
I'm also doing what I can to keep the mouse pointer out of the way of the action (something I didn't do last time). I may have missed a place here or there though.
I also have and idea for the wait time at the survey site.
As far as RNG, if we can deduce it by the time I start messing with Arnoid, I'll manipulate RTC to get the ideal spawn.
Considering the shortest path to the pod screen is the path I took before (minus the extra screen transition), if we can guarantee he'll arrive the first time that I'm there, that'd be great.
As strange as it seems, the shortest delay on his arrival may be too quick, because Roger is arriving from the top of the screen which takes a bit of time to get to the pod-cave. A longer time delay for Arnoid's arrival may be necessary to avoid getting caught before getting past him and into the cave. I think when Arnoid arrives from the north as well, he spawns behind the leg of the cave arch.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
c-square wrote:
DrD2k9 wrote:
Great. Is there an easy way to modify C-Square's lua for displaying the random seed that will work with the SCI games?
First we need to figure out the memory address for the seed. I could do that if I could get the game to run in Jpc-rr (which I’ve been unsuccessful so far) and then get a save game file from you.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
Radiant wrote:
No luck so far in finding out the randomness algorithm for SQ3. Unlike for AGI, the reverse engineering for SCI appears to be incomplete, and the sole new implementation I've found (FreeSCI / ScummVM) implements its own randomness.
I'm not too worried about it, now that I know that waiting for the pirates to leave the survey site is a set time. The Arnoid timing is the only RNG i'd be worried about. Theoretically, using the same paths I did before should yield the same RNG for him which was pretty fast.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
c-square wrote:
The Two Guys' whining is somewhat skipable! This should at least be worth investigating since it's right at the end of the run. Also, I noticed that in the video he shot even before it was locked on and it hit. You could try taking shots before lock on too.
The time before the battle warning is frame-equal whether or not you watch the Two Guys dialogue. Even requiring the extra text command doesn't affect this timer. I chose to watch the dialogue for entertainment reasons.
As far as shooting before lock: the ships won't be destroyed even if the bullets pass right through the ship. I'm guessing the animation of the ships being destroyed is set to the center of the viewscreen and thus only a locked shot will work. The bullets can be fired before the lock occurs as long as the lock sets before the bullets get to the ship.
Radiant wrote:
Minor note - the Arnoid robot is chasing Roger because of vending machine fraud (says so on his visor), i.e. the whistle in SQ2; not the slot machine in SQ1. Breaking the slot machine is optional, anyway.
It's probably a bit of both as Gippazoid is the owner of the Slot Machine as well.
If the VGA remake of SQ1 is retconned, using the widget to defeat the slot machine would be fraudulent.
I'll update the submission text on the next submission.
Radiant wrote:
During the wait time on Ortega, you could do something funny with the mouse cursor, perhaps. Such as around the 30 second mark in the SQIV run, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKm42lwk0JM
I'll have to look into that....not sure what I'd do yet.
Radiant wrote:
And I agree with c-square that your first run is probably publishable; just because there's a known improvement doesn't mean you have to redo everything.
I realize it won't be a huge difference. But since I know about the improvement possibility before the current run was even claimed for judging, I'll redo it.
It's more of wanting the best for my own work than anything else. I really don't mind taking the time, as much as I sarcastically whine about it in other posts.
And redoing it now will prevent a publisher/encoder from having to do it twice. My temp encodes take over 2 hours to dump as it is. (My PC is slow)
One last thing.
This would be awesome (for any SQ games) if completed!
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
c-square wrote:
Even before that, have you done a quick test to see if what FF says is true? I was just trying the game on DosBox, and clicking on the command box does absolutely nothing.
If you can't get it to work either, then your run is optimal and you can submit it!
It works, but you have to click inside the small box where the text command is, not just inside the general box.
Oh, and BTW, the wait for the surveyors to leave is hard set to 30 something (cycles? seconds? both?).
Well good, that's one less RNG to worry about. Too bad it takes them so long to leave. Maybe I'll have Roger pace back and forth while he's waiting.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
Alyosha wrote:
At some point we really should formally deprecate old BizHawk versions. Pretty much every core, both ported and in house, has been substanitally improved since 1.11.6.
My only comment on this is to delay depreciating 1.13.x for quite a while. Some of us don't have 64 bit systems and aren't able to upgrade to BizHawk 2.x.x
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
And now I'm back to square one on this run. FractalFusion pointed out a faster way to input text commands.
It unfortunately affects every single text input in the run meaning I have to start from scratch. But it also means it could save a significant chunk of time.
EDIT: Radiant, are you interested in helping dig into the RNG some more since I have to start over anyway?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
FractalFusion wrote:
did you try clicking on the text input bar after you type out a command? Because that I think should be faster than pressing the Return key.
I had not tried this as I didn't know it was possible. But now I have....and I think I'm going to pout in the corner.
Using this will probably save 5-7 frames per text command as well as some time that would otherwise be spent between multiple commands performed in series. (i.e. the stand/jump sequence on the conveyor belt in the freighter.)
TASing this game was TEDIOUS, and I'm not very excited about having to start it all again from scratch. But I guess I have no choice as this run is now known to be sub-optimal.
Thank you for the suggestion; It's always helpful even when it hurts.
Cancelling due to anticipated improvements. :.-(
EDIT: Clicking the mouse instead of pressing 'Enter' is not going to save as many frames as I expected, but it is still slightly faster. After the first 4 commands (through getting the power supply with the grabber) I'm only about 3 frames ahead. At that rate, it's only going to save about 1 second off the total time.
I, however, am curious to see how this pans out over the course of the run and will thus continue with the improved method.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
c-square wrote:
Great run! I’m really impressed how short you got the robot battle to be. Yes vote for sure.
The key I found with the robot battle was actually retreating instead of blocking a couple of Elmo's punches. This allowed me to avoid being hit while also depleting his energy and positioning myself to attack quickly.
I'm also not sure how many runners of this game know that it's possible to still use the mouse for robot movement instead of directional keys. This allows for more efficient movement. Unfortunately attacking/blocking is still limited to slow keyboard input.
Sadly, due to the 7-frame input issue, Elmo can attack twice faster than Roger can block twice.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
c-square wrote:
I wonder if the wait for the surveyors to leave is random.
Perhaps. I tried a few different paths to the site, but all my attempts resulted in them leaving at roughly the same time. Perhaps no random calls on Ortega happen before then so RNG would need to be manipulated earlier if they are indeed random.
I'm really hoping I don't have to re-run this game.
I’m guessing the Two Guys’ text bubbles can’t be skipped.
Nope. I think it's around 45 seconds from leaving Pestulon before the warning for the battle with the space bandits.
Are you thinking of hitting the KQ series next?
I will probably look into it eventually. I'll likely attempt to finish out the SQ series first though.
I'm also considering some Lucas Arts games (Indy and the Fate of Atlantis for one).
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
...and done.
I'll upload the temp encode and submit the run tomorrow.
Temp encode runs 16:38. Final input is much earlier as there is quite a bit of endgame cut-scene and credits.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
AAAAARGH, I did the whole trash zapping sequence typing 'zap' each time instead of using F3. Crud...that was a bunch of wasted time....oh well, going back and redoing.
As far as Arnoid is concerned. The scorpazoid showed up a few times in my trials which changed RNG in some paths. I did use one extra screen transition to get the RNG to make him spawn very quickly, but it also yielded him arriving from the top of the screen and getting to the pods faster than other directions. This was the fastest way I could find from the different permutations of paths to kill him with the pods.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
Update: I've gotten Arnoid to appear at the pod screen by doing a couple extra screen transitions. I'm going to play around some more and try to minimize this until we can find a more controllable method of manipulating the RNG.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
Radiant wrote:
Of course, the initial random seed is going to depend on the system timer again.
But how did we know the calculation? I've been looking everywhere i can think of and searching online and can't find anything.
How did you find it for SQ1?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2081)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1017
Location: US
c-square wrote:
Looks like what you want to do is get rng numbers set up so that he appears, and it's after only two seconds before he starts coming for you. Looks like we might want to go hunting for that rng again. Unfortunately, this is SCI not AGI, so it may be a different calculation.
If it takes much RNG manipulation (other than altering the initial RTC time) it probably isn't worth it. I.E. changing screens a few extra times may negate the savings in time for the arrival delay.
