http://tasvideos.org/2588M.html <-- Low% Super Mario Bros. 3
http://tasvideos.org/4315S.html <-- Low% Super Mario World
http://tasvideos.org/2431M.html <-- Low% Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
http://tasvideos.org/4304S.html <-- Low% Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins
http://tasvideos.org/2449M.html <-- Low% The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past ("out of bounds" makes more sense than warp glitch or game-end glitch. No "warping" is done to beat the game, and walking into the Triforce room is supposed to end the game so I hesitate to say "game end glitch" is accurate either.)
http://tasvideos.org/2457M.html <-- Low% Pokemon Blue (who decided "warp glitch" over "game end glitch"? Neither are particularly accurate, but still...)
http://tasvideos.org/4287S.html <-- Low% Kirby Super Star
If you want inaccurate or just plain wrong descriptions, you should at least strive to make them consistent.
If the run took a few more seconds to execute further code to flag the five Robot Masters as beaten and Magnet Beam as obtained, would that be a valid "any%" or "100%" run, or something?
While yes, "glitched" wasn't very accurate, neither are the new "warp glitch" (which I haven't found a single instance in which it was used properly) or "game end glitch".
When I saw "glitched" I knew what to expect - either save corruption or partial/full ACE to rush to the ending (especially if it had the added tag(s) "Heavy glitch abuse" and "Corrupts memory").
Why is this labeled "low%"? If it has to be kept a separate branch from the current run that skips over a quarter of the game... why not "game end glitch"?
Please read the judgment.
To elaborate further:
In the course of seeing what was done here, it was realized two problems with game-end glitch alone:
1) It is not necessarily a clear tag.
2) It doesn't identify that the run is in fact low%, which in most cases is reported by the game with some completion number appearing somewhere.
Especially see the last sentence in the judgment.
Who cares about what the overall completion looks like afterward? Did we label the current Pokemon Yellow or ALttP runs "low%"?
It should've been an obsoletion (any%) to the other MM/RM1 TAS we have.
This isn't low% or anything close to it. You can't beat it any faster while getting more items. It's an any%, just like the rest of the "game end glitches"/ACE/pseudo-ACE runthroughs we have.
If anything, and I'd disagree with this too, label the current 12-minute Rockman TAS as "low%", seeing as how it uses the same glitch(es) here but slower as it only skips three stages, not all ten.
http://tasvideos.org/1103M.html This is the run that should be kept published with the current ACE one. It doesn't skip stages (Magnet Beam abuse, yes, but it doesn't outright skip stages) via pseudo-ACE glitches, it just... completes the game.
I would be more open to a "glitchless" (no zipping) TAS accompanying the ACE one, but Deign's run is the best we have for an accompanying run.
After all, there's a reason we have the save corruption/ACE finish of Pokemon Yellow, the ACE finish of Pokemon Red (with Cooltrainer currently, I think), and finally the "normal" one that completes the game.
Why is this labeled "low%"? If it has to be kept a separate branch from the current run that skips over a quarter of the game... why not "game end glitch"?
So, any opinions about having a movie published to Moons that is currently obsoleted by a movie that's in the Vault? In other words, can we have an obsolete movie show up in the official "current publications"?
Well, I didn't quite parse that, but technically the limits are:
- A run can only be obsoleted by one run (not multiple)
- One run can obsolete multiple runs.
- Obsoletions don't need to be in time order.
- Obsoletion chains need to be non-cyclic.
I was obliquely suggesting that we keep the current SMW run in the Moons category, while also publishing this run (which obsoletes it) in the Vault category. This would mean having a currently-published-but-obsolete run on the website, which I don't think has been done before. A similar approach would work for the Rockman 1 run as well.
Mm, to clarify, by "published" I mean "currently accessible from the Movies tab of the site". I guess obsoleted movies are still technically published, but they aren't as readily accessible.
Except Rockman 1 shouldn't be using the currently listed TAS, but rather the one by Deign that got obsoleted.
The current one features three stages getting skipped via RAM corruption with a glitch very similar to the one that triggers ACE, and to the user it looks like the same glitch being used less efficiently.
(imagine a side-by-side of this run of SMW and the "11 exit" one on April Fool's day)
Have you looked at the post I linked? Battletoads 2P warps was "obsoleted" for the same reason you're suggesting. And unobsoleted back, because of the reasons from that thread.
Also, how can 23 seconds be 25% of 12 minutes?
Did it use the game-end glitch in a less-efficient manner, or did it just use a different form of warp glitch? I know little of the more recent Battletoads glitches like the game-end one, so I apologize if it's a common thing that several levels have access to weird RAM corruption like that.
Also, this: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=376224#376224
In particular, he says the movie before the current one (so the one by Deign, which DOES complete all stages) should be the current record while the ACE run obsoletes the currently listed one.
You're right, it's not exactly 25% as not all of Wily Stage 2 is skipped, but the majority of it. The point still stands though. Even though the Wily Stage 2 glitch is a different one, to the viewer it isn't.
Regardless, Bomb Man's stage in that one ends the stage via the exact method that's triggering the ACE ending in the current runthrough. It's using the same glitch less efficiently.
I thought of a better comparison for this: if the fourth and final Light World dungeon in A Link to the Past and one or two Dark World dungeons were entirely/mostly skipped (the latter can happen if you trigger the Crystals to appear in other dungeon's already-completed boss rooms), and have it coexist with the current 2-minute run.
The only way any of the above could happen is if it used the exact same multidirectional glitches to warp around, just in a far less efficient manner.
The same glitch is featured in both runs. It's just used in a less efficient manner. Should Masterjun's "11 exit" ACE run of SMW be allowed to coexist because it used the same glitch as the less-than-two-minute run, but less efficiently?
EDIT: Yet again I was wrong. After a rewatch of both Deign's run and the current one, the glitch leading to ACE is actually used three times.
Deign's run is the one to feature a quirk involving Cutman, the current one published doesn't. The RAM corruption that leads to ACE is used three times to skip three stages (two entirely, one it skips the last half + boss). I really don't see why it wouldn't get obsoleted.
I think it should definitely be obsoleted. As it stands... you have a run that uses the glitch to skip two stages or a run that uses it to skip the rest of the game? Why keep the former?
Because it's a Star content. The "skip to end" run doesn't obsolete the content the run got a Star for. I'd say, content overlap is about 5%. How can other 95% be obsoleted by a run that doesn't even contain any alternative, let alone better optimization?
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=356300#356300
It also skips the majority of the game through other means such as zipping.
Content overlap would be about 25%, actually. Two stages get skipped of the available ten, instead of ten stages getting skipped, that's not even including the fact that almost every other stage isn't even played but zipped through.
The more important thing to note though is that they both utilize the same glitch.
I think my Pokemon Yellow example above is still a good example. The same glitch(es) being utilized to prolong the game compared to an alternative, but it's still the same glitches in the end.
Do Stars runs have an exemption from being obsoleted?
I dont' know that i would classify the 12 minute movie as having megaman "gameplay" anyway.
Especially considering in two stages it uses a very similar/same (?) glitch as the ACE one, but uses it to end two stages instead of beating the game.
I think it should definitely be obsoleted. As it stands... you have a run that uses the glitch to skip two stages or a run that uses it to skip the rest of the game? Why keep the former?
It'd be like keeping a Pokemon Yellow TAS that, instead of using ACE to beat the game ASAP, disables random encounters, enables walk-through-walls and disables trainer battles to get to the Elite Four and beat the game.
A "zipless" memory corruptionless (no Magnet Beam zipping/premature endings of the game/stage) TAS would likely be the better companion.
I hope this doesn't come across that I dislike glitches or ACE, as I find both entertaining. But glitchless/"low glitch" (avoiding warps, memory corruption or other relevant forms of glitching) TASes also have high potential to be entertaining.
It should be accepted because there is no doubt it does complete the game (what happens after credits is irrelevant. Look at our two minute ALttP TAS and how "complete" that looks post-credits), however...
I don't know if it should coexist with the current twelve-minute run which uses similar methods to (mostly) skip two levels as opposed to the whole game. A glitch/warp-less runthrough seems to be the better companion to it than a run that only partially uses ACE/RAM corruption like the current twelve-minute run.
If our two-minute TAS of A Link to the Past constitutes as completing the game even though it is far from complete when you reload the game, I fail to see why this wouldn't count.
Short, and entertaining. And it includes ACE on the NES which is impressive.
Though... should it obsolete the other run? The other run uses some sketchy RAM corruption to end stages early, which is awfully similar to this.
I would vote No on the upgrades, personally. It's not a hard process (especially with the types of movements a TAS is capable of), but it would be painfully long and boring.
Entertainment should be the main goal---it seems a bit too purist to include the upgrades when getting them just means an insanely long grind no one is going to watch. Other than that, it would probably be an interesting TAS to watch. I liked the Zelda 1 "all items" TAS a lot just because of how different it was.
So far, I can't find it on their site but they have this to say about the XPS 15, the XPS 15 (why it's listed twice I'm not sure) and the XPS L502X (my computer is listed as a XPS 15 L502X... not sure why it's in three categories on their site?) on their Memory Finder:
Maximum Memory » 8Gb
Expansion Slots » 2
So I guess 8GB really is my limit? I wonder how people managed to get 16GB recognized by the computer, then... (Unmentioned) motherboard replacing I suppose?
I'll redownload Everest and see if it outputs any of that info, pretty sure it would as it's quite thorough.
EDIT:
Okay, Everest wasn't very helpful unless I had the non-trial version, but some Googling about what motherboard came with my laptop revealed this. (slightly wrong laptop model it has listed: I use a L502X but it lists L501X, but other searches reveal the same motherboard used for L502X so I assume it makes no difference)
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-Mainboard-for-XPS-15-L502X-C47NF-0C47NF-CN-0C47NF-HM67-N12P-GE-A1-Non-Integrated/209042_841517391.html
Chipset Manufacturer:
Intel
Brand Name:
Intel
Memory Type:
DDR3
Model Number:
XPS L501X 0C47NF
Any of this helpful?
No free slots, two maximum. Not sure what type of RAM, but it's probably two 3 GB sticks as I only have 6 GB.
Is there any way to look up my motherboard (preferably without opening my laptop? :)) to see how much RAM could be supported?
My manufacturer states it can only handle up to 8GB of RAM but it originally shipped with Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit), which I know has a lower RAM limit than 8.1 Pro/Enterprise.
Wouldn't a fair compromise (to avoid clutter on the SNES listing) be for Super Metroid to have its own page of the various runs? And only a run in one of the categories can obsolete a run in said category?
I think Super Metroid has proven that there's many entertaining ways the games can be completed.
If said runs are really that different from each other but have different times and ways that they entertain, it doesn't seem right to not have them. We have a Swordless run of Zelda 1, for instance, which was vastly different from the current any% or 100%/"all items" runs. I imagine such is the case for Super Metroid runs?
EDIT: Actually, a better example is Pokemon R/B/Y. We have Y beating the game in one minute using ACE, but Blue (or is it Red currently?) uses alternative methods of executing code to beat it in under 30 minutes (I can't recall the exact time off the top of my head). Both vastly different and entertaining for different reasons.
ACE/Total control are entertaining in their own rights but I don't really think they should obsolete categories that don't include memory/savefile glitches to begin with. What they're used for is a different story, but the things I find entertaining about ACE/Total control runs are generally what's done up to that point and to trigger the necessary glitch(es).
That's not to say I didn't enjoy the payload of some videos here (like the Pokemon Yellow Pi Day one, or the SMW one displayed at AGDQ 2014), but some other ones (Super Metroid/Pokemon Gold/Silver) so far I've thought the method of execution was more interesting than the result.
If an ACE method was found for A Link to the Past, or something, and it beat the current time by 30s (a Zelda game in under two minutes? lol), I don't think it should obsolete the current runthrough, for instance.
Anything can happen after you can execute your own code/gain total control. Ending the game is honestly pretty mundane when you think of the possibilities. (especially when we have things like SMW where there IS a lot of things you can do!)
I initially only installed 8.1 Enterprise over my current operation system of Windows 7 because I wanted to see if it would fix a persistent video card error with another game (which it didn't, sadly), and it was free (they offer a 90 day free trial) so I decided to just go ahead, especially after reading that it was the same as/better than regular 8.1 Pro.
By the 32-bit version, do you mean BizHawk or Windows 8.1? I never had an option for 32-bit for Windows 8.1 so I think I'm locked into 64-bit.
No (visible) errors, it just... doesn't start.
It appears briefly in Task Manager, then auto-closes.
I tried putting the .dll files in the main folder instead of the .dll folder but that didn't work, either. None of the Compatibility Modes I selected (XP, Vista, 7, etc) worked, and I also tried running it as an administrator.
My .NET Framework is apparently 4.0 (or higher) as the installer for .NET Framework 4.0 said it was either "the same version or higher".
How are you planning to hop from the Tower of Hera to the Swamp Dungeon? I thought none of the rooms in Swamp Dungeon worked properly if you glitched into them.
Is the S+Q glitch going to be used to glitch out of the Tower of Hera?
If you use the Exploration Glitch from a dungeon into the next, with correctly loading the next dungeon, you can however use keys in other dungeons.
And if glitch from a cave into a dungeon, you'll be able to open key locks and the big chest without having any keys at all (Which the new TAS will display).
I'm interested to see some practical purposes of this. I've known about it for years but didn't think it could help in terms of speed. Which dungeon(s) will be using this? Is Misery Mire one of them?
If we had a Swordless runthrough on the GBA one uploaded here, would having the Four Swords Dungeon and its boss replace Ganon be an acceptable move to allow it to be published, or should it only result from beating the real final boss, and not a bonus one?
I'm curious is there a way to go there without exploration glitches. Maybe somehow clipping in?
I'm pretty sure via the Magic Mirror Exploration Glitch you can clip very cleanly into one of the earlier rooms on the eastern part then work your way to the entrance (without leaving, of course) and finish the dungeon normally.
The MMEG is a very stable exploration glitch, blue/red switches behave normally, graphics will display properly (if they don't just bring up the map real fast, they'll reload properly then), obstacles, sprites and enemies appear and interact normally, etc.