Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(575)
Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina
Thanks for the tips marzo, we hope not to have to do this again, I prefer to do the zones in the correct order to avoid these problems, the project is up to ICZ2 actually
and here is Kaan AIZ 2
Link to video
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(575)
Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina
I checked the lag frames in the next zones and this not look bad at all.
MGZ1: 1
MGZ2: 4
CNZ1: 0
CNZ2: 7
ICZ1: 4
ICZ2: 1
Seing that Hydrocity is the most lagged zone no wonder is out of sync
Most of the lag frames are from doors , platform and ice cubes breaked (this is normal). with a little of luck the movie don't desync anymore. I hope
Personally I'm curious about marzo thinks about this movie since is the most experienced genesis TASer here :3
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(575)
Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina
The movie desyncs for some extra lag frames for the game's RNG events
The problem with gens is outdated and no body is interested to updated it, We need Sonic TAS tools for perfect frame tricks and management of the characters.
I don't know about scripting and I dont interested to learn, I don't have time for that, but if someone one day decide port Sonic hud and Solidity display to BizHawk is welcome.
Not to mention that Solidity display modifies gens.exe specifically for only 1 game, we have 4 gens.exe with Solidity +Camhack display for Sonic 1, 2, 3 and CD.
These tools are indispensable for TASing genesis/CD Sonic games
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(575)
Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina
Tails missed a floating ring at frame 43780, be careful with this situations
If the desyncs continue cause problems we have 3 options.
1. Waiting for a little of luck from MGZ don't desynchs
2. I will redo all zones again (I do not really have much free time to do this again)
3. Continue with the normal movie and we can note as "possible improvements" that AIZ2 can collect certain Knuckles rings in the submission text. for who want to work in a "improvement" in the future
Personally I opt more for the option 3 if you do not have luck sync all zones
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(575)
Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina
TAS editor: www.mediafire.com/file/36e9fwldhxcwvcq/TAS+editor.rar
Yeah that the weirdest part, It give me angry that for 1 lag frame all the run is ruined for the water fall ejection
A quick TAS Editor guide:
1. You can delete frames with "DEL" button in keyboard above the arrows.
2. You can copy or delete sections of frames holding: Shift and click the frame section with the mouse, Ex: if you want to delete or copy 50 frames, click on frame 1 and frame 50 later, and copy or delete
about the involuntary input entry I think is a gens problem, this happen to me always when I use multitraks, idk if this happens in another emulators. you can fix the involuntary "C" button with TAS editor
For now this is what I remember at the time of TAS editor, I hope you have luck in MGZ and the rest of the ACTs, It can be a hard work, do not try hard yourself
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(575)
Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina
* Facepalm * Yep, I missed this detail, stupid from my part, well I will proceed to finish AIZ2 and try to copy all possible input with TASeditor, most probably to be desynchronized in MGZ2 or CNZ, these are the less friendly levels in S3 part
Sorry joshep but for the moment I can't help you, maybe in the future I'll be able to focus on the Knuckles ring attack when I finish this TAS
I think you have the potential to do it alone, you make good TASes when you propose it, the only tip I can give you is to see theyogwog movie for a good feedback and check positions frame-by-frame
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(575)
Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina
The TAS looks fine, the bad side I can see I can't skip knuckles cutscene because Tails has the water velocity glitch, I can brake properly.
I can boost myself with a spindash in the final part but I would lose much more time in In-game time adjusting the positions but it would save a little more of realtime ... who you guys think?
Here is HHS explanation of how skip AIZ2 cutscene
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(575)
Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina
Take your time, don't hurry yourself :)
When making a TAS, keep in mind that you have all the time you want to analyze the map and the situations and routes.
A tiny example: in your last video, leave Sonic inside the ground and Tails first grab the rings on the right and wait for Tails to reappear and then grab the rings on the left and then eject Sonic from the wall at a hight speed (maybe?), I think this would be an example.
When you reach the final part of AIZ2 near the tunnel, let me do this part, you may have difficulties making the tunnel jump and activate the transition glitch.
And try to have Tails without the glitch of when it disappears under water and then appears on the ground, Tails has the speed as if it were under water, this can be fixed by letting Tails go in and out of the water again without disappearing
Maybe it does not matter much but it can be annoying sometimes
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(575)
Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina
Edit: I will be a little busy this week until friday, maybe you want to try a testrun in AIZ 2? To save time, so I can see if you testrun need small improvements or directly paste your input into the movie
Try to do your best ;)
Edit 2: Sorry I forgot the gmv and savestate, here is.
GMV fileRing-attack savestateI recommend you start AIZ2 at frame 9300, don't worry if you can't perform the transition glitch at the end, I can do it.
And... put this sound setting as seen in the image below to avoid desyncs and distorted sounds
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(575)
Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina
I think sonic and tails can grab this rings too, I only see AIZ 2 map I'm not tested this
I'll be busy this week, I think that from Friday I can be able to redo AIZ
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(575)
Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina
The ring table looks good, the only thing that would change would be "ACT 3" at the end, I would put a "total" or add everything directly down the table, and would put the full name of the levels and statistics, I do not think it is necessary only is my way of being :P
In MGZ1 the total rings is 1046, but me I decided to break the signpost monitor in ACT2 only for 10 extra rings and more score for caprice, I think it does not matter, the final ring count is the same. So, here the Total rings in MGZ1 are 1036 rings, and MGZ2 593 instead of 583
And ICZ, well, for me the rings I picked up from 1:59 (check the ICZ1 TAS above) are literally part of ACZ2, because ACT1 finished when you enter in the tunel and you can see thanks to the zip jump how the ACT2 is loaded, for me the signpost monitors are part of ACT2 too, but It is preferable to be guided by the scoreboard at the end of each ACT so it is not much of a problem. the final ring counter in this TAS for ICZ1 will be 319 rings as S+T for me.
About doomsday zone I done a ring-attack here too fortunately, but it's not quite optimized.
Link to video
I use the asteroids to slow me down and be able to grab some rings that normally could not be collected in the first part. and in the Part 2 I decided to grab first the rings would normally lose by hitting eggman and then hit him when the road is free of rings and repeating until to defeat him.
If I calculed correctly, I collected 268 rings in DDZ here and losse 112 rings for the ring drain effect, but I think the result may vary, the TAS is not fully optimized because it was a test run
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(575)
Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina
Personally I like how can be broken MGZ specially at the end, have some interesting things. but yeah, ICZ is the most broken zone so far
@TheYogWog - Well, you are the original author and you give me a considerable big help with you old notes and Kaan55 for his nice descoveries, I'm only the guy who have free time to TASing it :P, If you want you can do the submission text and me the stage comments.
WST requested an artwork for this project, here is the link if you want to see: http://averkov.web.id/tmp/st-sandopolis-rings.png
The artist post this commision in his page and is public, so I do not care to share here
The main reason of this project is going fast is: personally, is very fun doing this ring attack specially for 2 players and I do not burn my head with optimization because there are no time registers in this type of TAS as S+T, but I do my best.
And you give me a big boost with the first zones, I only improved your times and better Tails management, and I have planned almost all routes but I'm nervous about Sandopolis (only left this zone to route), maybe you or kaan55 can do a route? speacially Kaan, I want to see how he develops in a route planning, don't worry there is not deadline :)
I really don't like give deadlines in my projects because never know what can happen in the future, but yeah it will be nice if the TAS got finished at the beginning of 2018 or before.
I prefer to be relaxed and rest some days before the next levels, when I feel want to do a TAS I do it.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(575)
Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina
Sonic games only take in mind in-game time, but I think I can add the frames after destroy KTE boss to the last hit ACT 2 boss.
I assume that I "finished" ICZ 2 in 2:30.00 - then add the frames in real time, Example: 2:30.00 + 5000 frames RTA
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(575)
Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina
I was re-planing ICZ 2 route and test new things, Tails can fall back to KTE boss with the ice cube in Sonic start, he put in the middle of the object and when Sonic forced to appear the ice cube Tails jump and can fall. The only bad thing is the music ends after the score table ( because ICZ music is so nice :< )
You guys want to be co-authors? Maybe the movie has no input from you (for now), but its contribution is considerable (I would be happy), and maybe work in a improvement of the KTE ring-attack in a future, I have done AIZ only because I concentrate with S + T TAS now
Link to video
I'm not sure to continue with it actually, but if someone want to work with it is welcome, I'm sure AIZ is optimized as hell (but ring-attacks are almost imposible to do perfect time levels)
Knuckles Ring-attack improvement GMV
Joseph say he want to work in a improvement, I have no problem giving basic tips with Knuckles
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(575)
Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina
more discoverys
Kaan55 managed how to collect all signpost ring monitors in ICZ1
Link to video
Me: I recorded how to grab unreachable rings in SO1 using Orkal's method
Link to video
Well, the final ring counter increased 20 rings