Fun run.
Is everything so far all part of the actual TAS you will be submitting, someday? You're so far already. I hope your save file is good, and I hope someone has verified it as acceptable.
Looks like you'll definitely pass 1,000,000 points before the end. Easily.
Be prepared for some rings count fuckery going into ICZ. It has overlapping Act 1/2 rings, and don't forget there's a double ring (or two) on the S/T path above KTE's first exclusive area.
Looks like you'll definitely pass 1,000,000 points before the end. Easily.
Oh yeah. Didn't yours end up at like 950K? iirc he'll be getting 555k extra from big rings alone. (111 big rings at 50 rings a piece each worth 100 points?)edit- nope, as Evil 3d points out bellow its 77 big rings, thus it's 385K points from them alone.
Not to mention Sonic having extra level ending score tallies for LR2, SS and DE1.
Fun run.
Is everything so far all part of the actual TAS you will be submitting, someday? You're so far already. I hope your save file is good, and I hope someone has verified it as acceptable.
Looks like you'll definitely pass 1,000,000 points before the end. Easily.
Be prepared for some rings count fuckery going into ICZ. It has overlapping Act 1/2 rings, and don't forget there's a double ring (or two) on the S/T path above KTE's first exclusive area.
yes, this zones are already part of the full TAS. I think the save state is good, I use marzojr newgame+ savestate for gens 11b, I only changed the name xD
I'm not sure how much the total score will be, I do not plan to add it for now, I prefer to keep that in expectation, but I estimate it will be around 1,500,000 for give a number. Most ACTs will surely exceed 500+ rings for the giant rings
And thanks for the tip about ICZ, I am always watching your ring-attack minutely to be aware of the ring counter.
Checking all the zones, I think Sonic and Tails can grab all rings in every zone, except for 2 mutually exclusive singpost monitors in ICZ1 - and AIZ 2 KTE rings and 3 exclusive rings in SS KTE final battle
Paused wrote:
Great work as ever Evil!
TheYogWog wrote:
Looks like you'll definitely pass 1,000,000 points before the end. Easily.
Oh yeah. Didn't yours end up at like 950K? iirc he'll be getting 555k extra from big rings alone. (111 big rings at 50 rings a piece each worth 100 points?) Not to mention Sonic having extra level ending score tallies for LR2, SS and DE1.
thanks man, I think there are 77 giant rings in total if I remember
more discoverys
Kaan55 managed how to collect all signpost ring monitors in ICZ1
Link to video
Me: I recorded how to grab unreachable rings in SO1 using Orkal's method
Link to video
Well, the final ring counter increased 20 rings
It started out crazy, and then at precisely 1:37 it went completely insane and never looked back.
Now I wonder how Act 2 will be? I mean, will you have to slow down for it to follow you all the way back to Sonic's Act 1 area, or can you race ahead and it will conveniently reappear there on its own? It will be entertaining either way.
Now I wonder how Act 2 will be? I mean, will you have to slow down for it to follow you all the way back to Sonic's Act 1 area, or can you race ahead and it will conveniently reappear there on its own? It will be entertaining either way.
Well from what I've seen that boss will stay where it is because of the way its AI works and never ever despawn. So he can just carry on normally without any penalties.
Oh yes, I watched your tutorial video again, now I see (not sure what I was thinking). So cool. Good work finding that. Maybe you should try your hand getting Knuckles into Sonic and Tails' area in Lava Reef 1, sometime.
Oh yes, I watched your tutorial video again, now I see (not sure what I was thinking). So cool. Good work finding that. Maybe you should try your hand getting Knuckles into Sonic and Tails' area in Lava Reef 1, sometime.
Thanks :)
I actually have looked into that starting area in Lava Reef 1 at one point because I was curious on why you couldn't get into there yourself. Sadly I had no success, but I do have a few new ideas so I might try again later today (I can't do it right now because of irl stuff).
One of those ideas involve me possibly getting slope glitch with those spike platforms in a similar way you got it with the falling platforms in Launch Base.
I was re-planing ICZ 2 route and test new things, Tails can fall back to KTE boss with the ice cube in Sonic start, he put in the middle of the object and when Sonic forced to appear the ice cube Tails jump and can fall. The only bad thing is the music ends after the score table ( because ICZ music is so nice :< )
You guys want to be co-authors? Maybe the movie has no input from you (for now), but its contribution is considerable (I would be happy), and maybe work in a improvement of the KTE ring-attack in a future, I have done AIZ only because I concentrate with S + T TAS now
Link to video
I'm not sure to continue with it actually, but if someone want to work with it is welcome, I'm sure AIZ is optimized as hell (but ring-attacks are almost imposible to do perfect time levels)
Knuckles Ring-attack improvement GMV
Joseph say he want to work in a improvement, I have no problem giving basic tips with Knuckles
Yeah the music thing really does suck. Breaking an invincibility monitor will bring it back though (after the invincibility itself runs out).
I'm actually kinda curious on how you'll handle timing ICZ2 since the ingame timer will be frozen after you kill knuckles' miniboss. Maybe calculate the final time as if it was never frozen there in the first place?
Be a co-author? Sure
Sonic games only take in mind in-game time, but I think I can add the frames after destroy KTE boss to the last hit ACT 2 boss.
I assume that I "finished" ICZ 2 in 2:30.00 - then add the frames in real time, Example: 2:30.00 + 5000 frames RTA
You guys want to be co-authors? Maybe the movie has no input from you (for now), but its contribution is considerable (I would be happy), and maybe work in a improvement of the KTE ring-attack in a future, I have done AIZ only because I concentrate with S + T TAS now
I had only hoped to get my name in the credits, but if you mean to offer to put it in the title... well, what else could I say except thank you, that's so cool of you. If you want, I can begin writing up some parts of the general submission text, including a ring table with the same formatting I used in mine. Actually, I had already begun working on the ring table because I thought I might offer it to you in the future, but, so I could continue doing that, I mean.
AIZ looks great, maybe someday I would be able to contribute some inputs on future levels, but unless the project happens to take off first I'm personally content to wait until you finish the Sonic and Tails run, so as not to distract you or delay that. It's amazing you have come this far, and so quickly too. At this rate you could be done by the end of the year, and be a shoe-in for TAS of the year, IMO. But of course, it is best not to worry about that, and not to rush things.
What are the chances that ICZ2 will end up being the most broken level in the whole run?
Personally I like how can be broken MGZ specially at the end, have some interesting things. but yeah, ICZ is the most broken zone so far
@TheYogWog - Well, you are the original author and you give me a considerable big help with you old notes and Kaan55 for his nice descoveries, I'm only the guy who have free time to TASing it :P, If you want you can do the submission text and me the stage comments.
WST requested an artwork for this project, here is the link if you want to see: http://averkov.web.id/tmp/st-sandopolis-rings.png
The artist post this commision in his page and is public, so I do not care to share here
The main reason of this project is going fast is: personally, is very fun doing this ring attack specially for 2 players and I do not burn my head with optimization because there are no time registers in this type of TAS as S+T, but I do my best.
And you give me a big boost with the first zones, I only improved your times and better Tails management, and I have planned almost all routes but I'm nervous about Sandopolis (only left this zone to route), maybe you or kaan55 can do a route? speacially Kaan, I want to see how he develops in a route planning, don't worry there is not deadline :)
I really don't like give deadlines in my projects because never know what can happen in the future, but yeah it will be nice if the TAS got finished at the beginning of 2018 or before.
I prefer to be relaxed and rest some days before the next levels, when I feel want to do a TAS I do it.
That artwork looks awesome. I might add in some of my submission text as well.
Yeah don't rush your project. The run won't be as well optimized and you'll burn yourself out which won't be good for you. Just keep doing what your doing.
Route Sandopolis? I assume you mean both acts. I'll do it. I'm not worried about a deadline since I'll probably have the route done long before you reach this zone. I may even tas it to be honest.
Oh yeah that reminds me. I made S+T ring attacks of LBZ2, MGZ2, and FBZ1 some time ago. I can share them if you guys are interested.
Here is a WIP of the rings table.
I'll refrain from posting additional submission text-related items until the time comes, but I thought Evil_3D might find the rings table in particular useful before then. Just note that signpost monitor rings are always listed as part of Act 1 (IIRC). And don't fret about AIZ and ICZ Act 1/2 values, they are off because of overlapping rings; just worry about Zone totals (3rd row for each).
I should really have done this in Excel, but I don't know how to use the software so I did it all by hand. I can't guarantee it's free from human error, but it should be, hopefully; I double and triple checked everything. If it is, that would probably make this the single most comprehensive and accurate S3K rings table on the internet right now.
Let's see... in making the table, several important questions came to mind:
-MGZ1: In-game ring count maxes out at 999. Is it possible to verify the excess 37 rings were collected, perhaps with RAM watch, or by any other means?
-LBZ1: Might it be possible to get all signpost monitors here, using a method similar to that used in ICZ? See more about what I mean in the Orkal videos here,here, and here.
-DDZ: This stage consists of an on-the-rails auto-scrolling section followed by an infinitely looping section with theoretically infinite rings, subject to time constraints, correct? What would be the best way of determining the ring values for the ring table, if that's the case? And, technically, shouldn't the battle be prolonged deliberately, in order to collect as many infinitely looping rings as possible, so as to finish with only a single or a few ring(s) at the last possible second? I imagine it wouldn't be the full ten minutes, because the ring loss over time effect depletes rings faster than infinitely looping rings appear to restore them, right?
Lastly, Evil_3D, and I know I've mentioned this already, but once again, I should caution you to be very careful you do in fact collect all the rings you're supposed to in ICZ. I can't tell for sure because of the screwy Act totals there, but there seems to be 13 rings I can't account for based on your video's Act 1 ring total.
P.S.: Here's a couple rings-related memory addresses from my old notes, taken from Sonic Retro. I never actually got around to using them myself, so I don't know if or how well they would work (ring count according to memory might differ from, or be incompatible with, our method of counting rings), but here they are anyway just in case anyone might find these useful.
$FEC8-$FEC9 Rings collected since level load. Resets if you enter Special/Bonus stage. Starts recounting from 0 when level is reentered. Unknown use.
$FF04-$FF05 Total rings remaining to be collected in a level. No perfect bonus is actually given for collecting all the rings, making this variable virtually useless.
-LBZ1: Might it be possible to get all signpost monitors here, using a method similar to that used in ICZ? See more about what I mean in the Orkal videos here,here, and here.
I actually did look into this not too long after I figured out how to get all the signpost ring monitors in ICZ. I couldn't find a way to do it and I think it might be impossible because of a few factors.
1) You'd have to get Sonic's signpost monitors first because terrain completely blocks off that area in Act 2. Ideally you'd want to bring Knuckles' bosses up there in Act 1 but I couldn't find a way to get them out of their boss boundaries.
2) The signpost monitor objects gets deloaded in Act 2 if you get too far away from them. The reason this doesn't happen in ICZ is because those objects are a part of the Act 2 map.
3) Even with debug mode I couldn't find a way to get Knuckles' signpost ring monitor.
Also here's a fun fact about the signpost monitors in ICZ. It's theoretically possible to collect them indefinitely by continuously reloading them and then dropping the signpost on them over and over. But of course we won't be doing that in a run like this.
btw here are those Sonic and Tails ring attacks I mentioned earlier. Evil already saw them because I shared these with him before I got an account on these forums. I made them into links so that they don't take up too much space.
Launch Base 2Mushroom Hill 2Flying Battery 1
The ring table looks good, the only thing that would change would be "ACT 3" at the end, I would put a "total" or add everything directly down the table, and would put the full name of the levels and statistics, I do not think it is necessary only is my way of being :P
In MGZ1 the total rings is 1046, but me I decided to break the signpost monitor in ACT2 only for 10 extra rings and more score for caprice, I think it does not matter, the final ring count is the same. So, here the Total rings in MGZ1 are 1036 rings, and MGZ2 593 instead of 583
And ICZ, well, for me the rings I picked up from 1:59 (check the ICZ1 TAS above) are literally part of ACZ2, because ACT1 finished when you enter in the tunel and you can see thanks to the zip jump how the ACT2 is loaded, for me the signpost monitors are part of ACT2 too, but It is preferable to be guided by the scoreboard at the end of each ACT so it is not much of a problem. the final ring counter in this TAS for ICZ1 will be 319 rings as S+T for me.
About doomsday zone I done a ring-attack here too fortunately, but it's not quite optimized.
Link to video
I use the asteroids to slow me down and be able to grab some rings that normally could not be collected in the first part. and in the Part 2 I decided to grab first the rings would normally lose by hitting eggman and then hit him when the road is free of rings and repeating until to defeat him.
If I calculed correctly, I collected 268 rings in DDZ here and losse 112 rings for the ring drain effect, but I think the result may vary, the TAS is not fully optimized because it was a test run
Well let's see. The Icecap zone total in the knuckles run is 711. Add 270 to that from 5 big rings and 2 extra signpost ring monitors and you get 981 as listed in the table.
I did quick run of ICZ1 in real time (with a little bit of debug) grabbing all the rings in the route. 319 is what I ended up with so I think he's good on that. btw there are 2 overlapping rings (EDIT: overlapping in the sense that they're stacked on top of another ring) in this level.
So from knowing this you should end up with 662 rings (981 minus 319) in Act 2.
