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Someone on discord sent me a binary of VoidSW for Linux about a year ago, that's how I tested it. Hopefully all you need to get VoidSW running is the GRP file for the game and eDuke32. That's something I'll test when I start dual booting. As for pkDuke3D, Apparently it's not available for Linux at the moment. Maybe one day it will be. A couple of people on the Build Engine speedrun discord have talked about trying to port it, but It's been a while since they posted that and I don't know what's going on with it today, if anything. Late last year, Pogokeen said something about third-party libs needing to be looked at, but that all goes a bit over my head.
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Dimon12321 wrote:
Dimon12321 wrote:
Alright then. Wish you luck! BTW, I noticed BuildGDX supports Shadow Warrior as well, but tasvideos doesn't say if the engine works fine or not. Would you please try it out on libTAS?
I got it launched, but looks like none of the games read input. VirtualBox also barely handles anything beyond regular surfing. Having "Native events" enabled lets some fantom mouse reading, but the keyboard is still off. "Prevent writing to disk" has to be on or Java Runtime won't deploy necessary libraries to run the game. Rest of the options doesn't seem to affect anything.
Ah, that's a shame. I was hoping GDX would work in libTAS. In the near future I'll be building a new PC and I'll dual-boot Linux, so I won't have to mess with virtual machines or WSL to get libTAS working. I'll try some games like Duke Nukem 3D and Shadow Warrior and see what I can come up with. At the very least, Shadow Warrior should work in voidSW since that port is based on eDuke32, which works in libTAS. I'm not sure about Duke Nukem 3D, though, since all the speedrunners use pkDuke3D. I assume it'll work but I can't say for sure until I try it. I want to try out a bunch of other games, too, just to see how they all work. A good chunk of my Steam library runs natively on Linux, which is nice. Also, I finished the first map in Zone 2 a few days ago, and I'm a little over halfway done with z2a2. Here's a video of z2a1 beaten in 8 seconds flat. Check the video description for how I did it. https://youtu.be/teUYTJkfvdg
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Link to video I've started working on a full-game Ion Fury TAS! Here is the first zone of seven.
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Wow, this is hilarious. I love how fast-paced everything is! I love that this version still has portal peeking. That's just awesome.
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feos wrote:
FitterSpace wrote:
I think as long as it plays better than you would expect a speedrunner to play in real time, it should be okay.
This could be hard to figure out. For acceptance for publication, we consider the movie rejectably sloppy if in a lot of places we can easily save a lot of time. For Playground, I'm thinking of "there should be no obviously visible sloppy play", and as long as it looks clean, it's fine.
I agree. That's kind of what I was getting at because I also thought about games that people haven't done speedruns of. I think as long as you look at the TAS and don't think "come on, even I could do better than that", then I think it's fine.
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I don't think the bar for optimization should be too high. I think as long as it plays better than you would expect a speedrunner to play in real time, it should be okay. That would open the door for a lot of these "LOTAD" runs you see every now and then, and potentially even human theory TASes of really hard challenges in games like Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Aside from that, I think having a pretty low bar for optimization would mean we would encourage people to spend less time worrying about frames and more time making entertaining videos.
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This is really cool! I love how the camera smoothing works.
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KennyMan666 wrote:
though I can't help but find this statement a little ironic on a site where all the content is highly dependent on emulators and ROMs, even if the former is legal in and of itself and the latter can't be found on the site. But it can't be denied that it's still piracy-adjacent.
I don't want to derail the topic, but I just wanted to comment on this real quick. I'm sure many, probably the majority, of TASes on this site were made by people that downloaded the games instead of dumping them from their own copy of the game. But it doesn't really matter how the TASes were made since the inputs sync on copies of the game that were dumped legally. Many of them even sync up on real hardware. But emulation unfortunately has a bad reputation because of its association with piracy, even if a lot of people dump their own games legally. I don't think that's something TASVideos can change on its own, but getting rid of torrents is something they can do to help with that at least. inb4 "citation needed"
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
And here is a practical example of bad advertising for the site (look at paragraph "8. TASVideos "): https://www.fossguru.com/best-torrent-sites-that-are-legal/
Wow. It's hard to believe that article was written only a few months ago. It's easy to think the person that wrote it is just an idiot, but they can't be the only one that thinks TASVideos distributes games.
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I agree with the decision to remove them. Based on this thread that feos posted recently, basically everybody watched published TASes on YouTube anyway. Anybody that doesn't can still download them on archive.org. TASVideos providing torrents for videos is an old relic of a time when hosting videos wasn't something everybody could do. It's a lot of work to maintain an old feature nobody uses anymore.
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jlun2 wrote:
I agree, but at the same time I really hope this doesn't lead to some games basically with no full game TAS and only individual level ones (with perfect RNG that would otherwise not be possible if full run due to luck manip time loss).
I don't think it'll be much of a problem because there are already a ton of popular games that don't have a full-game TAS, at least, not on TASVideos. The main reason is that it takes so much work to make a TAS that is up to a big community's standards. Individual levels are great because it lowers the barrier to entry on TASVideos, and they take much less time to finish. It's the type of small project that a single person without much experience can work on for pretty much any game. I'd love to see more of that on TASVideos.
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The playground is a great idea. Being able to look up a game and see the things the community has put on there would be really cool. Having it maintained (mostly) by the game's community is just icing on the cake. At that point it reminds me of game pages on speedrun.com, in a good way. Also what ikuyo mentioned about individual level TASes sounds awesome. Tons of communities care about IL's and TASVideos doesn't have a good way to cater to those people right now. For example, people have been TASing Super Smash Bros. Melee's Break the Targets, Home Run Contest, Multi-Man Melee, etc. for years and there isn't a good way to feature that here without those players putting in the time and effort to get it all in one input file. The way the game-specific pages work right now technically works but the playground sounds like a great way to expand on that. Think about the number of games with active TAS communities that only focus on single stages, because it's so much easier to start and finish a TAS that way.
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feos wrote:
Personally I can't say that blindly accepting all modes makes sense to me. And only accepting those that get feedback agreement, means it doesn't feel like an obvious and popular, standard goal.
This is something I didn't really consider. I guess what I mean is that there should be rules for how things are organized but I think it's okay to bend the rules if a submissions comes around that challenges it. You're right that workbench submissions don't always get a lot of feedback, and that feedback can change based on who happened to post at the time, so that can't be the only way publications are decided. In the past, TASVideos had rigid rules and it was annoying to deal with. But from what I can tell it looks like TASVideos is moving in a more inclusive direction, and I fully support that. So I think you all are doing a good job. I don't have any strong opinions about specific rules (that I can think of), just the rules in general. As long as the rules are more inclusive and can change with the times, I'm good.
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ikuyo wrote:
I think this problem ultimately solves itself because it has to be justified in video submissions. As in "you can submit whatever you want, just be prepared to explain it and make it interesting for judges".
This is how I've always thought about it. I feel that the workbench does a good job of filtering out bad or uninteresting submissions already, without worrying about movie rules. In general, I think rules about the content of a TAS should be less restrictive so there are more good TASes being submitted and accepted to the site. But if a TAS in the workbench is too similar to a published one, people will be quick to point that out no matter what the rules say. So I don't think there needs to be a rule about that because the audience will decide anyway if it's not interesting or different enough for the site.
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Looks great! I didn't expect the trick with the black key, and the screen wrapping you do with the purple item, whatever it's called, is really cool.
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Here's another new z1a1 TAS from deeperjungle. This time, he's playing on an older version of the game, so there are a few differences here I need to explain. This is likely a problem with libTAS, but the 1.02 version seems to be locked at 30 frames per second. We don't know why this is happening, but nobody noticed it until now because all Ion Fury TASes up to this point have been done on the later version of the game. This shouldn't affect gameplay all that much, but it makes it a worse version to TAS. As far as real gameplay differences, the two biggest ones are the sprite collision changes and the clipping changes. Version 1.02 had some really nasty clipping code which allowed you to clip through walls more easily. They totally revamped that code for version 1.1 so a lot of the potential tricks in 1.02 don't work anymore. In this version, it's also easier to jump over sprites, and there are a lot of weird situations where you can walk over sprites without jumping over them. Pretty weird stuff. Overall, v1.1 is still faster for speedruns but there are cases where an older version might be better for a specific level. In this level, deeperjungle takes advantage of the bad clipping code in this version and clips through a fence and a wall in ways he wouldn't be able to on version 1.1. He also doesn't pick up any food because he wanted to see how much of a difference it made. Also, the game looks like it's lagging a lot, because it is. That's not a problem with the video. Version 1.02 is missing a lot of optimizations that were made in later versions of the game, and libTAS isn't treating the game too well either. https://youtu.be/u3zwsw3kuq4
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Dimon12321 wrote:
FitterSpace wrote:
If you're the type of person that doesn't like glitches in speedrunning, the level after this one is for you.
Long level and no glitches!? Gee, that's bizarre
Right? The next level is Deep Descent, an underwater driving level. A speedrunner recently found a way to get out of bounds in a certain spot that level but it can't be used in All Tokens because it would skip a token. It also causes some problems later in the level that I don't think can be fixed in this category. Unfortunately the walls in this level are double sided so you can only get back inbounds in certain places. Good thing the on-foot levels aren't like that!
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Deeperjungle made a new TAS for z1a1 where he shows off a new clip to get to the end a little faster. He spent some time optimizing the food pickups as well. The reason is because you move a little faster if you have more than 100 health. The more health you have beyond 100, the faster you go. https://youtu.be/b6xYRo0zV98
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Link to video Another level down! I finished this one pretty quickly because it's the shortest level in the run. The next one is pretty long, though. If you're the type of person that doesn't like glitches in speedrunning, the level after this one is for you.
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https://youtu.be/uN8BCBy-hqg I've started working on the All Tokens TAS again. I was nearly done with this level at the end of 2019 but I lost motivation and I wasn't sure if I'd finish it. But things have changed and now I'm working on it again. I hope to finish the whole run this time. There aren't a lot of crazy tricks that I haven't explained here before. It's mostly just clever use of the out of bounds glitches and a few other things specific to this level. The grapple trick in the first section is pretty interesting. You can grapple up to the ceiling and get yourself up on the support beams, skipping a lot of travel time.
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I think that, in general, a TAS should aim to be better than RTA runners in all parts of the game, but how much better is really up to the author. What I mean is that I know a lot of TASers (myself included) get frustrated when they spend a lot of time on one small part of the game so they can save a fraction of a second. In most cases, I think it's better to do the best you can within a reasonable amount of time and then move on to the next part of the game. It's just about balancing how much time you spend working on something vs. how good the final product is. In other words, you get diminishing returns when it comes to optimizing a TAS. That's not specifically a problem with movie rules, it's just something I've noticed about TASers over the years. I can give you a good example of what I mean. For a little while, I was working on TASing the Wii version of Call of Duty 4, and I think I got really good at the movement. I won't go into all the specifics on how the game works, but the movement in that game is similar to how it is in Quake 3: Arena. So the movement for most of the game revolves around bunny hopping and air strafing, both of which are very complicated to optimize. This is made worse because Dolphin doesn't have good TAS tools compared to BizHawk or libTAS, and even the custom versions that have LUA scripting don't support the Wii motion controls this game requires. So all the inputs have to be done manually. The Wii version also runs at a lower framerate, which consistently loses time over speedrunners that play on other versions due to slower movement. However, even with all that, Wii TAS movement can beat PC speedrunners over short distances (but loses time over long distances for reasons I won't get into). The only problem is that air strafing is very annoying to optimize manually, and there's currently no way to do it automatically. That video I linked before took me days to make, and the F.N.G. training mission I TASed a few years ago took me over a month, for just 18 seconds of gameplay, and it wasn't even close to being optimized. Anyway, what I'm getting at is that an optimized TAS for Call of Duty 4 on Wii just isn't going to happen. A perfect strafe jump on Wii can get you up to 385 speed before you hit the ground, which is pretty good even for a player on PC. If I were going to TAS the Wii version, I wouldn't spend all the time trying to get that perfect amount of speed every time. Instead, I'd go for about 370 per jump, which is considered average for a PC speedrunner. Still, that's 96% as fast, which is not noticeable for any casual viewer, but the difference is that a good TAS with slightly slower movement could be made in a fraction of the time. A TAS where I run across the airstrip could be made in one sitting, and not over the course of several days. That training mission could have been made in a few days instead of over a month, and it would probably only be a fraction of a second slower. One small side note: A Wii TAS would probably be slower than the PC world record, but it's because there are a lot of version differences. So it being slower than a PC speedrun wouldn't necessarily mean the TAS is unoptimized. For other games where there aren't any major version differences, TASes should still strive to be faster than RTA runs in all parts of the game, but I don't believe they have to be perfect to have a good place on this site. I know I'm getting off topic because this thread is about movie rules, but I wanted to clear up what I meant about balancing the amount of time you spend making a TAS vs. how optimized a TAS needs to be.
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I didn't know this hack existed. I love it for how chaotic is it. Yes vote.
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I totally agree with everything you said. I've gone away from the site for a while because of that elitism I used to see here and on the discord every day. There's nothing more annoying than asking a question about publishing a TAS here then being pointed to why it can't be done, usually because of some rule that was written on the forums ten years ago. I'm really happy with the changes to the site and the general attitude the staff has had lately. It also helps that a lot of the problem users have been dealt with in the last year or so. You'll never totally get rid of elitism, since that same mindset also exists in speedrunning communities, but you all have done a good job of taking care of that recently. Making this site into a "TAS Repository" would be the best direction to go in. I don't see any reason why route demonstrations, weird goals, and even human theory TASes should be excluded from the site. TASVideos can still be that curator for awesome TASes while having space on the site for everything else. I've seen a lot of TASes get rejected over the years because the people at the time didn't want to "clutter the site". I don't agree with that. If someone puts time into making a TAS for an obscure rom hack, or a TAS with a really weird goal, it should have a place on the site if people liked watching it. I think one of the things that hurts TASing the most is the idea that everything has to be perfect. For the vast majority of viewers, there's barely any visual difference between a TAS that's 99% perfect and one that's 99.9% perfect. But the difference between making those TASes is that one might take a few weeks to make, but the other would take months or even years to make. For example, I spent three months TASing an autoscroller in 007: Nightfire because I wanted it to be entertaining, and there are really obscure tricks that save fractions of seconds here and there. I spent ages trying to find every possible time save there. In the end, the final time of the TAS was maybe two seconds lower because of it. That's the kind of thing that puts me off of finishing my other projects. I probably could have gotten 90% of the entertainment value in that part while only spending a week on it. I could go on with more personal examples, but I'll save it for another time. But there have been a lot of times where I've been put off of making a TAS because I know how much work it would take to make it perfect. I know I shouldn't think that way, but it's a really common mindset in TASing. Anyway, I really appreciate the direction the site is headed. It's something I've wanted to see here for a long time!
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I think people get too caught up in rules and category definitions, and they get too worried about whether or not categories are arbitrary. If it's fun and people enjoy it, let it be. For 16-star, clipping through the door with MIPS is the whole reason the category exists. If you allow other methods of clipping through the door, you don't need 16 stars. I'm just repeating what ikuyo said, though. But it's true. The goal is not to simply "beat the game with 16 stars." It's to follow a particular route. Yes, it's arbitrary, but the category exists that way for a good reason. The reason I don't think people should get caught up with rules and categories is that every game is unique, and one universal set of rules about categories can't possibly apply to every game. This site is designed so that weird, arbitrary goals can still be accepted if the audience enjoys them enough. So I'm happy with the direction the site is heading, being more open and all that.
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deeperjungle made a new z1a5 TAS. It's not incredibly optimized but it showcases a new way to finish the level a little faster. The clip itself actually saves a lot of time because you don't have to get the grenade launcher, but the grenade launcher lets you boost yourself with explosives, so the net time save isn't as much as it could be. https://youtu.be/R9HNetpth4E
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