If it helps, the game looks pretty much perfect in my setup. See if you can get it to work on re-recording Mupen.
emulator: 1964 ver 0.9.9
video plugin: Glide64 Wonder Plus
video card: Voodoo III
OS: Windows 98 S/E
The only graphical problems are the pause menu (brief glitches when you change categories -- e.g. badges to map) and the usual pause when you hit start during gameplay. Also, the characters aren't shaded in dark areas, but you still get the cool "shadow effect" when near a point of light like a candle.
Granted, Glide64 is designed for Voodoo cards like mine, but it comes with a wrapper that lets it work with any card (at the cost of a lot of speed). But if my 450 MHz computer can run the game at near 100% without sound (most of the time -- it slows to a crawl at Sushie's Tidal Wave, although the move itself looks perfect), then a modern computer can handle the slow-down that comes with the wrapper.
The spinning thing is a detail they added to coincide with Super Mario World -- there, spin-jumps would allow you jump on and damage enemies that you couldn't with a normal jump. With the jump shoes on, Mario spins during all 3 of his jump specials. Note that Super Jumps done while the Jump Shoes are equipped will not count towards getting the Attack Scarf/Super Suit in Monstro Town (marshmallow found this out midway through his unassisted console speedrun).
The thing with using a single, massive Super Jump is that the animation takes a long time. Every 8 bounces increases the base damage (0 bounces) by 100% -- in the same time, even considering the enemy attacking, you could get off several regular attacks that would probably end up doing more damage.
An any% would skip 6 jiggies, 90 notes, and all 24 empty honeycombs. You can also skip a few moves (e.g. you can beat the game, including Grunty, without the Beak Bomb), but I don't think it's worth it to do so.
I would recommend skipping the jiggies associated with one of Mumbo's transformations, as you also get to skip the token collecting and transformation scenes. If I recall correctly, the Bee costs a whopping 25 tokens, and it's only necessary for 2 jiggies -- the jinjo one and the witch-switch one. You can fly up to the one at the very top of the tree in Winter, right?
Or, try to skip timed minigames. The crocodile one takes a while....
Sorry to be treating you as an encyclopedia, but I have a few more critical-hit questions
- Wondershot, Valkerye, Siren are diff. from Marle/lucca's normal weapons?
- Robo's Crisis Arm has a low crit rate?
- Crono's Kali Blade have higher rate?
- Apparently, Ayla gets fist upgrades (with higher crits) at levels 24, 48, 72, and 96...?
- Does the Beserker actually increase the Crit Rate?
To be quite honest, I'd love to hear all of your hacking results. If I share this with anyone, I'll be sure to credit you.
Wait, if I'm counting right, does that mean Crono and Robo have an almost 13% critical hit rate? 33 numbers divided by 255....
I'm assuming that those listed crit-tables change if, say, Masamune-Frog equips the Hero Medal, or Crono equips the Rainbow?
Yeah, High Jump was really improved in this game. Just make sure you're very close (or very far, or underneath) when you jump, or the weaker "clouds" will get them instead.
I played on the north american versions of the games.
A fun movie with some boring stretches.
World 6 was definitely the best:
- 6-2 shell-beating/hovering
- beating Boom-Boom with a starman
- the high-speed and precision hammers in 6-6
Some things I'm disappointed didn't get in:
- didn't defeat any Rotodisks
- didn't roll a spinning-nut off of the rails into a pit
- didn't create an airship (just don't enter it, of course)
- didn't beat a boss as Frog Mario
I'm not going to go into a big discussion about version comparisions -- some powers turned out better, some worse; some bosses were harder, some worse. The main reason I like the NES version best is the physics engine -- the controls feel too loose in the GBA (Kirby turns too fast, etc.). Still, I would like a GBA any% just so that UFO isn't abused the whole time.
Anyways, the point of this post:
Following is a damage guide I did for fun a little while ago. This is all tested/observed data, not hacked from the ROM. If you're curious, I can also post the corresponding NES version.
Sorry about the formatting -- it's meant for mono-spaced font.
=====================================
Damage Guide, Kirby: Nightmare in Dreamland (GBA)
=====================================
Notes:
- As far as I know, only the Meta Knight Crew are vulnerable to air pellets,
dive attacks, or contact (simply touching kirby).
- The damage for Back Drop and contact-Throw refers to a boss touching Kirby
or his held object/victim. Once Kirby lets go, he becomes vulnerable again.
- For High Jump, "clouds" refers to the small clouds that appear to the sides
when Kirby jumps; "contact" refers to touching Kirby himself while hi-jumping.
- "Ice Block" (for Freeze and Ice) refers to knocking a frozen object into the
boss.
- The damage listed for Mike is for each individual hit.
- For Parasol, "contact" refers to anything that touches it while Kirby isn't
attacking with it.
- With the Star Rod, Kirby automatically performs "jump-spin" while jumping.
"Rod swing" refers to hitting the Nightmare Wizard with the Star Rod itself,
and not the shot star, when you press B.
Power | Damage (number & visual graph)
--------------+-----------------------------------
Normal | |
- contact | 2 | []
- air pellet | 2 | []
- dive attack | 2 | []
- water spout | 2 | []
- star shot | 10 | [][][][][]
- multi-star | 25 | [][][][][][][][][][][][][
| |
Back Drop | 12 | [][][][][][]
Ball | 16 | [][][][][][][][]
Beam | 4 | [][]
Burning | 5 | [][][
Crash | 28 | [][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
Cutter | 4 | [][]
Fire | 5 | [][][
Freeze | |
- shield | 5 | [][][
- ice block | 10 | [][][][][]
Hammer | 9 | [][][][][
Hi-jump | |
- contact | 10 | [][][][][]
- clouds | 6 | [][][]
Ice | |
- breath | 3 | [][
- ice block | 10 | [][][][][]
Laser | 3 | [][
Mike | 14 | [][][][][][][]
Needle | 8 | [][][][]
Parasol | |
- contact | 2 | []
- swing | 5 | [][][
Spark | 7 | [][][][
Star Rod | |
- jump-spin | 2 | []
- rod swing | 2 | []
- star shot | 10 | [][][][][]
Stone | 10 | [][][][][]
Sword | 6 | [][][]
Throw | |
- contact | 12 | [][][][][][]
- thrown star | 12 | [][][][][][]
Tornado | 4 | [][]
U.F.O. | |
- beam | 4 | [][]
- laser | 3 | [][
- beam | 10 | [][][][][]
- large beam | 18 | [][][][][][][][][]
Wheel | 4 | [][]
| |
Minibosses | HP
------------------+-----
Poppy Brother Sr. |
(blue, orange) | 24
(red) | 34
|
Mr. Frosty |
(pink, blue) | 22
(green) | 32
|
Wheelie |
(3-2, 5-5) | 35
(otherwise) | 25
|
Mr. Tick Tock |
(2-4) | 26
(otherwise) | 36
|
Bugzzy |
(arena) | 30
(otherwise) | 40
|
Bonkers |
(5-2, 6-3, arena)| 30
(otherwise) | 40
|
Phanphan |
(6-1) | 30
(otherwise) | 40
|
Fire Lion |
(brown) | 27
(purple, grey) | 37
|
Meta Knight Crew | HP
------------------+-----
Ax Knight | 6
|
Mace Knight | 8
|
Trident Knight | 6
|
Javelin Knight | 4
|
Level Bosses | HP
------------------+-----
Whispy Woods | 60
(Level 1) |
|
Paint Roller | 60
(Level 2) |
|
Mr. Shine | 30
& |
Mr. Bright | 30
(Level 3) |
|
Kracko | 60
(Level 4) |
|
Heavy Mole | 60
(Level 5) |
|
Meta Knight | 60
(Level 6) |
|
King Dedede | 100
(Level 7) |
|
Nightmare Orb | 600
& |
Nightmare Wizard | 56
(Level 8) |
|
Definitely more entertaining, as 2P co-op runs usually are. Great job! I've always thought the gameplay for this game wasn't that bad at all (if a little short).
Hmm... should you do the best ending? Getting past the guards at the end could be entertaining, but for the most part it would be a copy of the normal game with a few detours.
Very nice run. I couldn't help but giggle at Luigi's ladder-boost jumps in 3-3. That crazy plumber. Also, one-throw-knock-out'ing Clawglip ...er Clawgrip was sweet. Even if you did need to headbounce the rock.
What was that pausing on the ledge after beating Birdo in 2-1 for? Future luck manipulation? It doesn't seem like it takes as long for the other hawkmouth gates to open.
Also, as awesome as 3-2 was, why didn't you grab a Mushroom Block after beating Birdo for a faster spring to the gate? Or would the time taken to pick up the block negate the time saved?
Just saying that I'm looking forward to this video -- I can't watch the WIPs, so I'll be given a nice surprise later...
Anyways, I've done some thinking about 5-6 & Dedede. In that level, you can easily choose any partner to use, and since you're going for 100%, you've got little choice on the powers to beat the minibosses. You end up having to fight with all 8 except for Ice, and Needle is used for Dedede (who has a lot more health than the minibosses). There are 4 ways to do this:
1) Use Chuchu
- 3 of the 6 fights will have a 150% strong power, and 2 more will be 200% (make sure that Kirby temporarily hops off of Chuchu for parasol usage).
- Kirby tackles Dedede solo with Needle. (150% strength)
2) Use Rick
- only 1 of the fights has 150% power, and 1 more of the 6 has 200%.
- But then you have Rick + Needle (200% strength) for Dedede, who has a lot of HP.
3) Use any 200% strength power for all the fights
- This would require Gooey to grab and hold onto the correct powers for each feather.
- With Gooey present, your attacks do slightly less damage, so you'll need to hit one or more times.
4) Use Coo
- You've got 150% for 2 of the six fights, and Kirby also has to dismount from Coo for Parasol and Electric.
- Plus, you've only got 150% for Dedede.
- But, you've got Coo's faster movement for the between-fight areas....
It would seem to me that #3 would be best -- the 200% power used would depend on which power you have at/near the end of 5-5 -- any of Stone, Parasol, Needle, or Broom would do.
Note that Coo's fast movement might make option 4 faster, though.... I hope not, though, as you're already going to be using him a lot.
I'm really pleased that you're doing a 2-player run after all. Gooey will be the main form of entertainment.
I've never actually tested whether the final boss takes extra damage from being hit by the heart rod directly instead of the heart projectiles. At the very least, it does the same damage and looks more fancy, so abuse it. Of course, you have a while to wait before you need to bother testing this....
One thing in Kirby Superstar is that bosses have about 25% extra health if a helper is present at the start. I don't think that happens in this game, but I never use computer-controlled Gooey against bosses, so I'm not sure.
Sorry, you misunderstood me.
I meant that you should create Gooey, and then actually control him manually with controller 2 -- just like in the Kirby Superstar run on this site. The loss in health for Kirby shouldn't make a difference, as I can't see damage-boosting being useful in this game.
Of course Kirby isn't going to use many of the abilities. But Gooey can mess around with everything while Kirby moves forward.
e.g.:
- Kirby creates Gooey, who follows Kirby (or jumps in pits, or whatever...)
- Gooey stops to eat an enemy. This most likely causes him to fall behind Kirby, so he warps back and continues following Kirby.
- Gooey stops at an enemy (while Kirby keeps moving on) to showcase the power, then warps back to Kirby.
- Gooey sees another power or helper, and changes things up....
Of course, Gooey can't use a helper if Kirby is using it to travel faster. But there are a lot of auto-scrolls in this game, and during that time Kirby and Gooey (each with different powers) could trade the helper back and forth....
Gooey could even be used to speed up bosses. You said that you have to go out of your way to get parasol for Pon&Con. Well, Gooey could detour to get the power while Kirby doesn't slow down, and then Gooey could do the boss fighting -- or he could pass the ability to Kirby.
Do you plan on having a helper for Pon&Con? If not, then Gooey could grab Chuchu or Rick in a previous level, and then combine it with Kirby's parasol for a powerful weapon.
Of course, manually controlling Gooey will be a lot of extra work, but it will greatly increase the entertainment value of what would otherwise be a mostly not-too-exciting movie. And Gooey can help speed up some things (I'm thinking helping Kirby break through frozen blocks, for example).
Sorry, I couldn't watch as I have the wrong ROM version.
In case you're interested, I tested all 56 powers against King Dedede to compare their strength. Most of them did the same amount of damage as normal Kirby's star-shot (multi-star-shot does double, obviously).
50%:
- Kirby + Cutter
- Coo + Electric
- Nago + Fire
75%:
- Coo + Parasol
150%:
- Kirby/Coo/Kine + Needle
- Kirby + Parasol
- Chuchu + Fire
- Kirby/Rick/Coo + Broom
200%
- Rick + Needle/Parasol
- Nago + Stone (only 100% on the ground)
- Chuchu + Stone/Broom
Kine is another good partner to consider for level-running -- with Electric or Broom, he can rush forward and just plow through enemies at running speed. He jumps really high, too. Of course, I don't have to emphasize that he's the best for underwater....
Are you abusing headbutts on the enemies as you run around? You know, jump up and hit them from underneath... Also, when doing a running jump on level ground, you can safely land on walking enemies without slowing down.
Please control Gooey with 2P if you're not already! Unlike other Kirby games, grabbing/dropping a power/helper doesn't pause the game, so Gooey is free to mess around while Kirby continually runs forward -- this should make a lot of the movie more interesting. In fact, you may end up being able to showcase all 56 abilities during the run.... You do know that Gooey can ride helpers, too?
In fact, Gooey can help prepare for bosses by grabbing a power/helper that would otherwise slow Kirby down. During the boss battles, you can have fun with Kirby and Gooey trading powers/helpers. Make sure to have Kirby "kill" Gooey a couple of times, too.
Ugh, I hate those up+down or left+right glitches. Unless Nintendo ever officially released a controller that let you push both those directions at once, it will always be hardware modification (or, in this case, "breakification") in my eyes. Eh, whatever.
Just out of curiosity, MUGG, why are you using the Japanese ROM? Is there some gameplay difference? Also, you don't need to do Spring Breeze for an any% run.... Although, maybe you should quickly check that yourself -- it could be a Jap-to-Eng change....
Yu-ki_Hs wrote:
Thanks a lot for the link. It doesn't matter if Wheelie Rider is used, as long as it's the fastest way (which I doubt it is in most cases). The video isn't perfect, but now we have a ball-park figure -- shoot for below 2:30.
Anyways, thanks for letting us know that the timer stops during the Crash animations. When else does it stop? Mixing? Creating/Destroying helpers? Game lag slows it down?
In order to get 100% on the file selection screen, do you need to get all the abilities in Milky Way Wishes?
In order to get 100%, you must get all the abilities (including Copy), all 60 treasures in the cave, and both switches in Dynablade. Of course, you also have to beat all of the games (besides the 2 minigames).
MUGG wrote:
Apparently, the ingame timer doesn't run if the boss's HP Meter isn't loaded. [...]
I would aim for real time instead of ingame time.
Of course, if you're stringing everything together in one video, you're going to go for real time instead of ingame time.
But I think that it's completely stupid to do everything in one video. Spring Breeze, Gourmet Race, and Meta Knight will be completely identical to the any% video. Dynablade is barely different -- just detour for 2 switches.
In my opinion, there should only be a Great Cave offensive 100% and Milky Way Wishes 100%, nothing more. Does tasvideos not like having tables for runs like speeddemosarchive?
Another argument is that if an everything-at-once 100% run is done, then the Arena will have to be done in real time (after the unskippable Milky Way Wishes credits... *shudder*), which involves boringly spamming Wheelie Rider/Plasma/Stone on everything. Really, videos of those already exist. A minimum ingame timer one would be much more interesting, as you get a variety of powers -- TAC, Jet, Normal, Wheelie Rider, Stone, and possible Plasma/Bomb/Wing. Plus, it hasn't been done yet. Sonic games use the ingame timer precisely for this reason -- to increase the entertainment value.
I don't think it would be worth it even if the timer did stop during the Crash animation.
As far as I can tell, you can only get mixes against Chameleo Arm, Wham Bam Rock, Fatty Whale, Kracko, or Marx. In all cases (except Marx), stalling until it's possible to get a mix would take too long.
Anyways, a few revisions:
Miniboss #1/2:
- use Capsule-J to OHKO each miniboss with Ultra-Jet Jump, while Normal Kirby immediately eats the corpse.
Whispy Woods
- If Wing Bomber-Heading Ground Sparks are used, Birdon should join in with Kirby. Whispy then has some more HP, but you're throwing out sparks twice as fast. If Whispy's natural invincibility frames are too high to be hit that frequently, then Stone or Bomb-farts are probably the way to go. (Although, I do love that twitch he gets when you do the Parking Wheel attack by his mouth...).
All the videos that have been linked from here are awesome. But there's still no pure-speed Arena run.
Sure there are lots of videos around where the player only uses a particular ability. But I'm curious about a run that shows the absolute lowest time after beating Marx. And no, it would not just involve Wheelie Rider....
Some things to take into account:
Apparently, the ingame timer doesn't run if the boss's HP Meter isn't loaded. So you can waste as much time as you want in the rest area between fights, destroying helpers and getting powers. In fact, you can take your sweet time walking up the boss's area (such as the Computer Battle).
If you have a helper with you when the boss's HP meter loads, the boss will have about 25% extra HP. This isn't in all cases, however.
You don't just consider the amount of damage an attack does, you also consider the amount of invincibility frames the boss gets after being hit by a particular attack. This is why, in some cases, TAC helper can outdamage Wheelie Rider -- bosses are invincible for far fewer frames after being hit by TAC than after being hit by Wheelie Rider.
Anyways, here's a quick plan I whipped up to get everyone thinking:
Heart of Nova
- No helper, so has less HP
- attack close so diagonal shots also hit
- destroy first 4, weaken next 2, destroy last 2, backtrack to destroy weakened ones
Halberd Reactor
- no helper, so dies in 3 hits instead of 4
- probably Stone or Plasma (use Spark/Laser on cannon, not Wave Cannon -- longer invincibility frames for cannon)
- destroy the laser-blaster the split second after it starts shooting its laser -- brings up next attack quicker
- destroy the "under-the-ground" cannons as soon as possible to bring up next attack quicker
- destroy the main cannon as soon as possible -- hopefully before it fires the first time
Fatty Whale
Wham Bam Rock
Dynablade
Heavy Lobster
Meta Knight
- TAC rapid hits until Kirby can finish off with Stone, Jet Cracker, or Hammer Flip/Throw
- Kirby finishes off with Down Air Stab in case of Meta Knight
Waddle Doo
- rush up with Wheelie Rider.
- once hit (knocking Waddle into the air), Normal Kirby jumps off and eats
Lololo & Lalala
- each player takes a "Loa"
- helper either smashes with TAC hand or uses Kirby's Ice strategy
- Kirby either immediately grabs block with Suplex quick-stamping, or uses Freezer Ejection + Sprinkle + Blizzard combo
Twin Woods
- TAC rushes to one tree and smashes it
- Stone Kirby rushes to other, hits with Turbo Stone and follows up with 2 Stone Smashes
Combo Cannon
- TAC helper smashes cannon until it fires its first cannonball, which Kirby grabs
- Kirby would ideally use Air Body Down Slam (Suplex), as it hits for 90 damage, and can hit twice.... If not, Jet's Diving Rocket (80 damage per hit) (TAC attacks in downtime between hits)
Computer Virus
- use Stone - one-round witch and knight
- try to manipulate Mario and Samus statues in downtime
Miniboss #1
Miniboss #2
- Kirby uses Ultra-Jet Jump to OHKO each miniboss
- helper is positioned to quickly destroy corpse -- probably Plasma, Jet Cracker, Stone, or Bomb (place on enemy)
Whispy Woods
- no helper to reduce HP
- either 4 Stones, 8 Wing Bomber-Heading Ground Sparks, or 12 mid-air Bomb Farts (use down+Y when back touching enemy)
Kracko
Chameleo Arm
King Dedede
Marx
- Stone (no helper to reduce HP)
- try to throw in a Turbo Stone inbetween falling-stone attacks if it still takes the same number of attacks
- Wing Bomber-Heading Ground Sparks may work for Chameleo Arm
As you can see, Swallow is an extremely useful weapon for any CT speed run because it [...] also increases his critical hit rate by 10-15%.
Where is this master document where every game mechanic is listed? I'd love to read it (English only, please)! If one doesn't yet exist, then you should really make one. I'd be happy to clean up the english for you.
I would like to know how much Twin Charm boosts natural Charm. Also, some people at gamefaqs are confused over how much Drill Kick boosts Ayla's Rollo Kick tech.
Anyways, back on topic, I'm happy with whatever run you decide to do. Although... A 100% run would be awesome.... If we can decide what 100% exactly means...
If you're still doing Spring Breeze, then I would recommend dropping whatever power you have for Stone right before Kracko. Consider even destroying the helper (so Kracko and Dedede have fewer HP), at least for Dedede.
To see Stone in action, check out this run (may not be TAS): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpqLKznTbzQ
4:52 - Dedede
5:39 - Kracko
For Gourmet Race, you can do much better in the 3rd race. When using Wing, you can rise significantly faster by holding down and then alternating between B and Y.
Technical explanation:
- begin a mid-air Bomber Heading (down + Y)
- near the peak of the little loop Kirby starts the move with, cancel out by pressing B (Wing Flap)
- start a new Bomber Heading & repeat.
I think you must do Gourmet Race, but I can confirm that Spring Breeze is not necessary to get all the way to unlocking the Sound Test (you won't get 100% without Spring Breeze, though).
Now, I can't watch your video, so I just have one question:
Did you use Ice against Lololo/Lalala? Nitsuja's strategy is suboptimal: It's fastest to rush up to one of them (s/he must not be standing over a gap), grab the block and immediately use Freezer Ejection. Then follow-up with two hits from the breath (or a quick mid-air attack), and finish off with a blizzard attack.
Given the lack of luck-based battle tricks or precision platforming moves, this would hardly be better than a decent speedrun. Probably the only real advantages would be luck-manipulating final Bowser and skipping Bow entirely in Tubba's Castle.
Now, a TAS should really try for low% or 100% -- both would have some real advantages.
low%:
- manipulating Fright Jars to work completely every time.
- manipulating status ailments to always work on bosses
100%:
- getting Chuck Quizmo to always appear
- always winning the Jump Attack game for an easy 900+ coins (need over 2300 to get all badges).