Definitely enjoyed this, watching how to generate and maintain momentum. I don't think a similar run of the GBA remake would work well, as momemtum is handled very differently in that game.
Wow, what a weird change to have the boss remains masks be able to damage Majora's Wrath in the 3DS version! And so powerful too, isn't 16 damage twice that of a jump attack / orange spin attack from the Great Fairy Sword and Fierce Diety Helix sword? Now there's actually a reason to not destroy them as soon as possible.
Also, I hate how much they reduced Deku Link's acceleration speed in this version. Messes up my lillypad hopping so much.
Hm, I don't see why this couldn't be published, since the "normal" ending run is published?
I'd like someone else to please double-check (it's been a long time since I played), but I believe that the trigger for this "placeholder" ending is not based on having collected Catherine's journal, but actually if you do not have the prison book currently in your inventory. There are two situations where this occurs:
1) You never visit Tay to pick it up (along with Catherine's journal) in the first place. What is done in this video.
2) You pickup the prison book from Tay, but leave it in Gehn's hands (by refusing to use it when offered by Gehn; he holds onto it afterwards), then open the fissure afterwards.
In theory, the normal bad ending video would be appropriate to play in this case, with one major issue: Atrus takes the prison book and looks at it before being distracted (and shot) by Gehn. Obviously they would need to have an altered version of this ending setup (Atrus making a comment like "Where is the prison book...?" before Gehn and the guard show up). Or alternatively, just don't have Atrus grab or mention the prison book before his dad interrupts, so it would work for all situations.
My assumption is that the developers realised they would need to account for not having the prison book in your inventory too late in development to act out an additional ending, and so hastily edited the normal bad ending video to just completely remove Atrus or Gehn showing up at all. The cut is a bit sloppy; you can just briefly hear the sound of Atrus warping in right before it swaps to the player falling in the star fissure.
Ah, memories. I love how you slap your hand on the linking book before Gehn has even fully opened it. Not suspicious at all.
Why do you detour through the vents into Gehn's lab, on the boiler / book-making island? In a non-TAS run, you obviously need to read the journal to note down the randomized dome access code. But you just enter the lab and immediately go back outside, accomplishing nothing except wasting time?
One of my favourite puzzle games (I guess it's technically a puzzle-platformer hybrid?), definitely enjoyed watching it.
Initially, I was disappointed that you didn't choose Round Game Mode B, as the boss fights every 10 rounds add some nice variety. But, apparently, the SNES version removed this feature, and replaced it with a mode where you just play 2-player against a computer instead? As someone who never really liked the 2-player mode mechanics, this sounds like a worse trade-off.
"Arbitrary Code Execution" is not a loose category, it is clearly defined here: http://tasvideos.org/ArbitraryCodeExecutionHowTo.html
Reading your description & link, it seems that what you're actually doing is entering a secret developer's cheat code. This is generally not allowed. While there is precedent (read this post), I don't believe your case qualifies. Did you ask any TASVideos staff about allowing this code before starting your tas?
Personally, I don't find this gameplay adds anything over the currently published movie. You're just using a cheat to skip to the last part of the game. It would have been slightly more interesting if you went for the bad ending, although my gut tells me it would still be fastest to get the ultimate dragon form & just not use it in the final battle.
SmashManiac:
Adding the minigames wouldn't be as simple as appending extra input post-credits. WaddleDX defeated the final boss by ending input early, and letting the computer ally finish it off. If the movie were to have extra content added, WaddleDX would need to redo the last part of the fight to manually beat it in as fast real-time as possible.
To be honest, I don't think a 100% video should even bother being accepted here. The minigames were already seen during the 97% route, and the boss rush is slow & boring with no powers or helpers. 100% would simply be padding.
By the way, WaddleDX, I really enjoyed watching the movie. You were very entertaining whenever you could fit hijinks in.
Amazing run! These glitches have really broken the game wide open.
TASVideoAgent wrote:
In the phase 2 battle, RNG is manipulated so that Bowser attacks with his claw, the fastest attack that he has when Mario does not have the Close Call effect. [...] Bowser’s Wave attack is the fastest, but it can only occur after turn 3. After he uses that attack, he cannot use it for the next 2 turns.
These statements seem to imply that Bowser's battle AI has been figured out / decoded? If so, is that information found online anywhere? (I'd love to update my Stat/Attack guide....)
Very entertaining run, though I will admit to watching it at 2x speed.
Question regarding getting into peril status after Gloomtail:
Your current strategy is:
- enemy first strike, blocked (5 damage)
- Mario defend
- enemy blocked (4 damage), followed by enemy superguarded
Wouldn't the following be faster (due to one less enemy attack animation)?
- no first strike on either end
- Mario Defend
- enemy blocked (4 damage), enemy unblocked (5 damage)
Heh, nice trick.
If I'm understanding things correctly: Y tosses Blaze, who saves herself from the throw, and is standing in the right position to instantly grab him. He counter-grab-attacks, which knocks her down. I'm guessing that never properly touching the ground (standing/walking) combined with changing from a dangerous to a safe throw confuses the game, and what should normally be a non-interactive knockdown is considered an enemy-hazardous throw.
It's too bad that this trick wouldn't save time, unless I'm missing something.
About the GT code:
When we reach the point of arbitrary code execution, all gloves are off, and I don't think it's important to keep restrictions such as "play on hardest difficulty", "don't use cheat codes" and similar. Those rules were made to keep the gameplay interesting, but this run isn't really about the gameplay, is it?
Just wanted to pop in to say that I completely agree with Tub, and that I would support this as a general rule for all game runs that execute arbitrary code.
--oh, creating a helper lowers the boss's health? I didn't realize that happened. Or do you mean that bosses get more HP if there are two players when loaded? I don't know if I ever noticed that before, hm!
Some bosses (not all of them) get approximately 20-25% more HP if there are two players present when their HP meter loads. This is most easily noticeable during the Computer Virus battle.
Thanks for posting that. Similar strategies to my musings on a theoretical in-game Arena run.
Thoughts:
- One advantage to using in-game timer is that you don't need to worry about lag.
- Apparently, creating the helper after the boss's health meter loads (so it has less HP) is faster than having Kirby arrive with helper + Hammer (or other) for a stronger final hit.
- Interesting that when creating a helper during Heart of Nova, it defaults to Birdon after the fight. Random, or first id in helper array?
- Amusing that Kirby auto-spitting when taking heavy damage is sometimes the most efficient way.
- Wow, hammer is fast on Lalala. I thought maybe Plasma or Suplex would be used.
- Ingenious way to one-round the Computer Virus's Dragon.
Sorry for the bump, but I didn't feel it worthwhile to create a new topic for a small thing.
The TAS misses a shortcut in the last non-boss level (getting the missing statue piece back):
At 16:26 in the youtube encode, you can break through the horizontal wall in the far north-west part of the area, exiting north. The new path has a some of its own platforming involved, but you skip pushing the two blocks, so I'm sure it's faster.
I attempted SOR3 good ending hard mode once. I actually beat it, by being lucky enough to get Robot Y in a loop: repeatedly knocking him off-screen with Skate's Dynamite Headbutt, timing the next to hit him as he leaps back in (trivia: I learned that hitting with the somersault hurts more than the headbutt, the opposite of SOR2). I never bothered to attempt it again, after realizing that Hard Mode requires you to destroy a whole lifebar every 20 seconds.
Other problems with SOR3:
- on harder difficulty levels, some of the basic grunts start moving ridiculously fast
- if you hit your ally, you do full damage to them
- the whole "not allowed to finish on easy mode" trope is never good
- robot imposters? invisible, teleporting, magical samurai? Mad scientists & brains-in-jars? I understand that series evolve a bit, but this was all a bit too sci-fi for a series about beating up street thugs and taking down mobsters.
It's quite a shame, as this game had several other aspects that could have made this the best game in the series:
- recharging special mechanic encouraged variety without spamming
- dashing & rolling added mobility, and the game is in general more fast-paced
- bonuses for staying alive a long time or having a 6-button gamepad
- special moves with weapons
- bringing back the team-attack-combos
- lots of stage hazards, especially pits that won't make you lose an entire life at once
Lorenzo_The_Comic wrote:
As for the character exhibition, unlocking Roo by defeating Bruce without killing him takes up time.
You can enter a code to unlock Roo before even beginning the game (doesn't cost time; he appears on the character select screen). Besides, I think defeating Bruce while saving Roo would be more entertaining, as it's quite tricky to do while playing normally. Perhaps it could be considered part of the "good ending" goal?
By the way, atro city, please don't take my musings on more character variety as whiny complaints. Your video is very entertaining!
Wow, this brought back such great memories. I think you did an excellent job making it entertaining, while still being quite speedy.
...Actually, I kind of wish there could be a legitimate goal or category of "uses all characters & attacks."
For this game, it would break up the monotony a bit without really costing much time -- just select each character to only have 1 life in options, and strategically KO & continue at certain points where it doesn't slow you down too much.
If I'm understanding the multi-hit bug correctly, any two players can use their down-air attacks to do massive damage. Axel & Skate both have interesting & stylish movesets, especially their special dash attacks & weapon moves (I would love to see Skate's bat special successfully smacking a huge group of enemies; I usually knocked them down on the startup & whiffed on the spinning combo). Shiva & Ash are kind of boring, but Roo has some interesting tricks (& can do a throw-combo-attack with the main 4!).
Tidal Wave's power maxes out at 13 damage. The animation is quite long, however, so it probably won't be used in a TAS.
Also, to answer a few other questions, an excerpt from an old post of mine (originally found here):
And just to dash any hopes, you can't skip the 3-minute Twink vs. Kammy cutscene. If you do at least 99 damage to Bowser #3 in the first two rounds of battle (which is possible to do), he simply keeps fighting at 0 HP. When you return to the battle after the cutscene, he has 1 HP, allowing for a very quick finish.
I came about the above situation by abusing Merlee's battle boosts, which appear to not be random at all. I saved in Bowser's castle and started to fight enemies, making sure that Mario used a Hammer or Jump attack every round. I noticed that after a certain number of rounds (the number of battles didn't matter), Mario received the +3 attack boost from Merlee. After resetting, Mario would once again get the attack boost on the specified round, even if it was a different battle. If Mario didn't use a Hammer or Jump attack on that particular round, nothing would happen, and he wouldn't get the boost on the next round either.
So what I did was fight until the round before he was supposed to get the boost (time the current battle to finish at the right time), and then save and go fight Bowser. Sure enough, I got the +3 attack boost in the first round of battle.
So I equipped both Power Plus's, All or Nothing, P up-D down, and Mega Rush, and started the battle at 1 HP. I had Watt use Turbo Charge on Mario before Mario attacked on the first round. Combined with the attack boost from Merlee, this meant that the first 5-hit Power Bounce did 55 damage (13 + 12 + 11 + 10 + 9). The next round, Watt did 5 with Electro Dash, and Mario did 40 (10 + 9 + 8 + 7 + 6). In case you're wondering, I had to use Close Call to have Bowser's attack miss. I was annoyed to find (after Tattling) that he had 0 HP.
Having played through the entire game using Star Rod, here are my thoughts:
Aside from the obvious issue of needing to hack/cheat to get the Star Rod ability to begin with, you must drop the ability midway through 4-2 & reacquire it again afterwards. This completely throws off the flow of a run.
Which is a shame, as otherwise a Star Rod only run would be quite entertaining:
- Kirby doesn't loose the Star Rod ability when taking damage, allowing for damage boosts.
- Bosses are beaten so quickly that the game is almost all platforming action.
- Star Rod Kirby jumps quite high (4.75 blocks instead of the normal 3), allowing you to leap over some obstacles that normally would require flying. This makes it easier to keep your "slide-off-the-edge-of-a-platform" momentum.
- Kirby turns into Sonic the Hedgehog, being able to destroy enemies and many projectiles just by jumping into them. This allows for mass destruction without needing to slow down to attack. Spinning all the time just looks cool, as well.
Great job on the videos!
Just one comment: in the SNES game, the Ultra Jet Jump attack (try to fly with full charge stored) will OHKO minibosses. Does that still happen in the DS version, and, if so, would it be feasible to defeat some of them this way?
A bit of a late reply, but whatever:
A bit over a year ago, an updated run of Paper Mario was posted at speeddemosarchive. It beats the game in 3 hours, 38 minutes (SDA timing).
The strategy used there is pretty much optimal. Barring any discoveries of helpful glitches or frame-precise tricks, I would be surprised if an optimal TAS was better by much more than 5 minutes.
The main strategy is to avoid all optional fights, and use Bow's Spook attack against ordinary enemies you're forced to encounter. Bosses are taken down by Power Bounce/Jump bolstered with Mega Rush & charging, helped out with Parakarry's Shell Shot.
Money is not an issue -- you only need 50 coins to get Speedy Spin before Chapter 2. Now, money would be an issue in a 100% run -- you'll need about 2300 coins to purchase all of Rowf's and Rip Cheato's stuff. But that's easy -- just abuse the 9-block Jump Attack minigame to win 900+ coins each time.
(2) Bottles' bonuses: obtained from Bottles minigames after completing the game, these cheats change your character model. Only usable once unlocked. The effects can be reversed by entering NOBONUS or by restarting. Only the unlocked/locked status of these cheats, not the effects, are saved.
I think that the washing machine form is more than just a cosmetic change. I recall going around Bubblegoop Swamp, being unaffected by the piranha waters, but also being unable to climb the tall, thin plants.
A very interesting run. I assume that you could do a similar glitch when Teddy takes Lloyd's stuff, and when Lloyd takes back Teddy's stuff?
What exactly happens if you try this on the other game versions? Does Pippi simply not give you the bread crumbs, or is Ninten's warp-location set to Pippi's?
Also, I'm surprised that this glitch hasn't been made more public until now. Given that the developers knew about it and fixed it for the abandoned NES release, it must have been discovered a lot by Japanese gamers (or a developer just a had "wait a minute" moment during translation).
Anyways, besides the wow-factor of the glitch, the run was somewhat boring with the slow walking on an endless white field. But, then again, the non-glitched run of this game isn't an action-packed fun-fest, either.
Both runs display great technical knowledge, luck-manipulation, and route-planning. They also have different game versions, different party members, and different entertainment-failings (slow walking vs. power-levelling).
I vote for both runs to be published. If I had to choose one, the objective side of me says that this run is absolutely the fastest, and makes use of the glitches that TASes are famous for. The subjective side of me says that the other run is more entertaining, and makes more use of the luck-manipulation that TASes are famous for. Neither have much in the way of insane reflexes and acrobatics that TASes are famous for.
Ah, this was a great run.
Okay, to be honest, people who haven't played this game won't be entertained much (except by the music), and those that have played the game will probably watch most of it at double-speed. But that's just the way the game is -- it's still amazingly well-planned and optimized, and emphasizes one of the things I love about this game: its nonlinearity and freedom.
Also, bread crumbs are the best things since ...sliced bread.
The powerlevelling requirement was unfortunate, but seeing how awesome EVE is makes up for it. The battles are less the problem -- the long level-up messages are more annoying.
As for the Super Bomb on the Dragon -- was it my imagination, or did it say that Ninten dropped from the backlash, not Lloyd? I should have save-stated nearby, as I can't be bothered to restart the movie file to watch it again. I guess the game designers never planned for you to die from using the Super Bomb, and so the game just defaulted to the name of the first party member.
Oh, and, once again, thanks for trying to vary the menu cursor (luck manipulation) and walking movement, without going overboard. That long, slow menu display before one of the later starmen fights seemed like a tease....
^ Technically, the Skip Sandwich is only necessary for one glitch -- going from Twoson to Threed. All the other uses of the item are simply to cover ground faster.
Still, you're right that it's a very appropriate name in this run's context.