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Truncated wrote:
Hmm, how about showing us (me) the good run instead? It feels like a waste to comment on things which you probably already corrected most of.
The test run is a prototype of the good run, even though 80% of time lost was due to poor jumping and execution, and the other 20% from a couple of boss battles that I didn't bother to do well.
I was away the past few days so I couldn't reply to this board or work on my run. I'll give you the good run up to Flame Stag (just before the lava rise in the volcano). It turns out to be even more impressive than the test run.
Download:
http://www.savefile.com/files/8842927
Edit: The link has been deleted by me.
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Thanks for replying. :)
I'm done the test run already in 34:32. Despite all the time-savers, I missed Blechy's time by 15 seconds (but I wasn't going to submit it regardless). I've started the good run up to Flame Stag.
Here is the test run:
http://www.savefile.com/filehost/files.php?fid=6086943
Click Download. Then click Download the file now once.
The good run will be much better than this. I already surpassed the re-record total in the test run.
Oh, and the test run is in WIP1.
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I decided to resurrect this topic because I am currently working on a Megaman X2 TAS. After watching Blechy's X2 run, I must say that it is very impressive. So I started searching for improvements.
There were a few nifty tricks I found while probing the game:
- After hitting Wheel Gator with the Strike Chain, there is a very brief period of vulnerability between when he stops blinking and when he goes into the water. He can also be hit right from the start. This makes it possible to repeatedly strike and kill him within 10 seconds. (I actually found this while casually playing.)
- There are many parts in the game where Strike Chain helps, usually to gain height when jumping to a wall or to reach places more easily. I feel that during my first version of the run, I haven't abused Strike Chain and Speed Burner as much as I should have.
- Chop Register (the C4 sword) goes down with two seconds' worth of X-Buster autofire. And it's only necessary to dodge him once. There is actually a faster way of killing him: using the Giga Crush just before the point where you lose control of X. Unfortunately, X becomes permanently frozen, so there's no point using Giga Crush.
- Magna Centipede goes down pretty easily with charged X-Buster shots; almost as fast as with Silk Shot. X fires the double shot much faster while hanging on a wall.
With the above tricks in mind, the order of the bosses goes like this:
Wire Sponge, Wheel Gator, Flame Stag, Bubble Crab, Magna Centipede, Crystal Snail, Overdrive Ostrich, Morph Moth.
Taking Flame Stag before Bubble Crab is debatable. This order cuts down the 7 seconds or so of reshuffling from the X-Hunters on the stage select (their position cannot be luck-manipulated). It all comes down to whether I can beat Flame Stag fast enough with the dash-shot X-Buster.
So far, my first version of the run is up to Crystal Snail beaten. It is not a perfect run, and I have no plans to submit it.
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neobyte_07 wrote:
I am confused! Turbo controller? I have never heard about it!
I don´t have super nintendo so I´ll do it by using an emulator!
Could I put the autofire on then?
You don't have a SNES so forget about the turbo controller thing. In the Snes9x emulator, pressing Shift+Home toggles turbo Y (autofire) on your Y button. In other emulators, you can set a turbo Y button.
neobyte_07 wrote:
I think it´s impossible to make a speed run without autofire. Every speed run I have seen they use autofire.
I thought it would be a glitch or a trick or something like that.
The runs on emulators were performed by slowing down emulation. Technically, autofire is not necessary, just slow speed.
Hope it helps.
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Looks good so far. Just wondering whether talking to trainers is faster because the ! mark doesn't show up on their heads.
Tilus wrote:
I've also solved one of my questions - Escape Rope = Dig, so I won't be using any Escape Ropes in the run.
How about Teleport?. Not that you'll be using it.
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
String Shot only effects your speed, and because your speed is slower than Weedle's it doesn't matter wether or not it hits. Unless the first critical'd frame happened to be String Shot missing as well....
If it hits, the screen shakes for half a second. That's not good.
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bobxp, I printed out the maps and tried to find the optimal routes. I can show you later if you like. :)
Oh, and the surface that Sonic runs on is topologically equivalent to a torus. The surface is a square with both sides wrapped around without twisting.
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OmnipotentEntity wrote:
4 hours later, I am unable to find a chart of the values of the Japanese Characters, but I was able to find a Pokemon Hex list.
For those who are interested about the values of the Japanese characters:
katakana hiragana
A (128) - Golduck a (177) - Squirtle
I - Hypno i - Charmeleon
U - Golbat u - Wartortle
E - Mewtwo e - Charizard
O - Snorlax o - Missingno.
KA - Magikarp ka - Missingno.
KI - Missingno. ki - Missingno.
KU - Missingno. ku - Missingno.
KE - Muk ke - Oddish
KO - Missingno. ko - Gloom
SA - Kingler sa - Vileplume
SHI - Cloyster shi - Bellsprout
SU - Missingno. su - Weepinbell
SE - Electrode se (190) - Victreebel
SO - Clefable so - garbage
TA - Weezing (rest give garbage)
CHI - Persian .
TSU - Marowak .
TE - Missingno. .
TO - Haunter
NA - Abra
NI - Alakazam
NU - Pidgeotto
NE - Pidgeot
NO - Starmie
HA - Bulbasaur
HI - Venusaur
FU (155) - Tentacruel
HE Same as "he" -----------> garbage
HO (156) - Missingno.
MA - Goldeen
MI - Seaking
MU - Missingno.
ME - Missingno.
MO - Missingno.
YA - Missingno.
YU - Ponyta
YO - Rapidash
RA (165) - Rattata
RI Same as "ri" -----------> garbage
RU (166) - Raticate .
RE - Nidorino .
RO - Nidorina .
WA (169) - Geodude wa (220) - garbage
(There is no 170) (There is no 221)
N (171) - Aerodactyl n (222) - garbage
(TSU) - Missingno. .
(YA) - Magnemite .
(YU) - Missingno. .
(YO) (175) - Missingno. (yo) (226) - garbage
dakuon
katakana hiragana
GA [KA+“] (5) - Spearow ga [ka+“] (38) - Kadabra
GI [KI+“] - Voltorb gi [ki+“] - Graveler
GU [KU+“] - Nidoking gu [ku+“] - Chansey
GE [KE+“] - Slowbro ge [ke+“] - Machoke
GO [KO+“] - Ivysaur go [ko+“] - Mr. Mime
ZA [SA+“] - Exeggutor za [sa+“] - Hitmonlee
JI [SHI+“] - Lickitung ji [shi+“] - Hitmonchan
ZU [SU+“] - Exeggcute zu [su+“] - Arbok
ZE [SE+“] - Grimer ze [se+“] - Parasect
ZO [SO+“] - Gengar zo [so+“] - Psyduck
DA [TA+“] - NidoranF da [ta+“] - Drowzee
(D)JI [CHI+“] - Nidoqueen (d)ji [chi+“] - Golem
(D)ZU [TSU+“] - Cubone (d)zu [tsu+“] - Missingno.
DE [TE+“] - Rhyhorn de [te+“] - Magmar
DO [TO+“] (19) - Lapras do [to+“] (52) - Missingno.
(No 20-24. No Mew) (No 53-57)
BA [HA+“] (25) - Gastly ba [ha+“] (58) - Seel
BI [HI+“] (26) - Scyther bi [hi+“] - Diglett
BU [FU+“] (27) - Staryu bu [fu+“] - Tauros
BE [HE+“] Same as "be" ------> be [he+“] - Missingno.
BO [HO+“] (28)- Blastoise bo [bo+“] (62)- Missingno.
handakuon
katakana hiragana
PA [HA+°] (64) - Farfetch'd pa [ha+°] (68) - Missingno.
PI [HI+°] (65) - Venonat pi [hi+°] - Missingno.
PU [FU+°] (66) - Dragonite pu [fu+°] - Doduo
PE [HE+°] Same as "pe" -------------> pe [he+°] - Poliwag
PO [HO+°] (67) - Missingno. po [ho+°] (72) - Jynx
other symbols
null (0) - 'M (garbage)
end-of-name marker (80) - Missingno.
- (katakana double-vowel dash) (227) - garbage
Notes:
-The absence of 170 and 221 is presumably from the omission of (W)O and (w)o from the naming list of characters. (W)O is never used in the game anyway, even though it's there.
-The hiragana and katakana of "ri" are similar. Thus the developers got lazy and had only one character represent both. Similarly with "he".
-Wonder how the (han)dakuon got their numbers? If you try to give a character a (han)dakuten and the resulting character is legit, its number is the original number minus X where X is:
Katakana dakuon: X=128 Katakana handakuon: X=89
Hiragana dakuon: X=144 Hiragana handakuon: X=134
That's why there are length-5 number gaps in the table. If it were possible to have [NI+“], it would yield Mew. Unfortunately, no such character exists. Thus, Mew cannot be obtained via the Missingno glitch.
-There are many Pokemon in the Japanese Missingno list that are not in the English Missingno list. There is only one Pokemon in the English list that is not in the Japanese list: Porygon (number 170).
The 3rd and 5th characters in the trainer name determine the Pokemon. The 2nd and 4th characters determine their level. Just don't make the 2nd and 4th characters (han)dakuon if you want L100+ Pokemon.
I spent a couple hours churning this list up using only Pocket Monsters Green, the emulator, and Hex Workshop. Credit those who made the list of values of each Pokemon.
(Note: The missingno glitch does not work in Pocket Monsters Green)
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Something I noticed in the run puzzled me. You entered the Cinnabar Island PC briefly but you still went back to Fuchsia City PC. That might mean you have to heal at the PC to set the escape point there. Oh well. I was hoping otherwise.
As for analysis on how damage works, I found the following site:
http://db.gamefaqs.com/portable/gameboy/file/pokemon_link.txt
I used the damage formula to try and figure out how a L100 Pokemon would fare. Even a decent base 70 attack (same type) is enough for a one-hit KO (with critical hit). Though it may be faster taking Blastoise all the way.
Tilus wrote:
(Oh, and in R/B/G Psychic attacks *are* super effective against Psychic Pokemon. Because of this Mewtwo actually was an unbeatable monster in the original games, since Psychic did at least normal damage to all the Pokemon in the game, and was super effective against a good number of them as well.)
Thanks. A battle chart said psychic was resistant to psychic.
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I had a look over the Missingno glitch pokemon list again and it seems a level 100 Alakazam looks promising. After catching it, its attacks are Psybeam, Recover, Psychic, Reflect. That's two major attacks right there. Throw in Psywave over Recover or Reflect and you have a L100 Alakazam with three deadly weapons, and no Pokemon outside of psychic is resistant or immune to them.
I don't know how deadly these weapons would be, but when it's coming from a L100 Pokemon, it should do a whole lot of damage.
Edit: Sorry, Psybeam isn't that strong, only a base damage of 65. Psychic has base damage 90, almost the same as Surf. However, Psywave is typeless and I heard it does HP damage 1 to 1.5 times user level. That's extremely good for L100, and even psychic Pokemon cannot resist it. I'll analyze the Pokemon and move lists to see if another Pokemon can do better.
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Good job, Tilus. I had to go through a Japanese-to-English move list to figure out what your Pokemon were using.
I didn't realize you didn't set battle mode to Set and left it on Shift. If you do that, you would shave a few minutes off the run. Of course you're not going to forget.
Nice routes too; there were some routes that I missed. Especially the one in the Viridian City Gym.
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OmnipotentEntity wrote:
4 hours later, I am unable to find a chart of the values of the Japanese Characters, but I was able to find a Pokemon Hex list.
Strange. All those weird characters give trainers. What is 'd, 'l, 's, 't anyway?
Tilus wrote:
Complete! (1:54:52 realtime, 1:54 gametime at Hall of Fame screen)
Also, here's a collection of savestates. Each savestate takes you to just after defeating the corresponding Gym.
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OmnipotentEntity wrote:
It pretty much works thusly, the 3rd, 5th, and 7th letter of your name determines which pokemon appear.
How about the Japanese versions? And if so, which pokemon appear?
Wandering Road wrote:
All right, so Jolteon and Thunderbolt aren't an option. What about Fissure? If you can control the outcome of any attack, instant kill moves like Horn Drill and Fissure should be able to connect every time. You get Fissure automatically after beating Viridian Gym, and the stats of the Pokemon who knows it shouldn't matter.
I remember a person on Gamefaqs who wrote a speedrun strategy for Pokemon yellow. Used Nidoking with both Horn Drill and Fissure. Also mentioned X Accuracy, but I wonder how that ties in.
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Bag of Magic Food wrote:
You could... You would have to run and get both the Eevee and the Thunder Stone, but it starts at a nice level 25, right?
You could get Eevee/Jolteon to fight some trainer battles, but there aren't any good ones.
Or you could evolve Eevee into Flareon, since Lorelei's Pokemon are also ice (except Slowbro).
Edit: Another reason why Zapdos is good: Bruno's Pokemon are fighting and they are weak to Zapdos' Drill Peck.
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Good run, Tairasu ... I mean Tilus. :)
I am hoping for a good sub-2-hour run, like everyone else. Perhaps the reason you played the Japanese version is that the text is shorter.
Just a few things to say though:
- Unless I am mistaken, it would have been better to select a 1-character name rather than a 4-character name. Every time the game says your name, that's a 3-frame difference. Similarly, Zenigame (Squirtle) should be given a 1-character name as well. Hopefully not much difference; you're already 24 mins ahead of the SDA record.
- I think talking to trainers, if it doesn't break your path, is faster than walking in front of them.
- I was hoping you would faint your starter to warp quickly back to the PC. Especially after getting the Cut HM.
Still, very impressive TAS. It's quite hard to do a good TAS and I'm just starting to learn. Actually, I've tried a Megaman X2 TAS, but I've put it off very quickly, since I have so much other stuff to do. Hopefully, you'll complete this TAS. :)
