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After I watched the run, I thought it had desynced.
The AI tricking was drawn out way too long against Kitana. I don't get the point of the first battle either.
Plus, the way it's done, it appears not to complete the game, although I think it is a battle select rather than a "storyline mode".
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This new version (v0.0.8) is a lot better than the previous one. I tried to crash it, and so far, I failed.
The Mega Man X5 and X6 movies still sync, so there are no new desync problems. Turbo speed is back to pre-v0.0.6 quality.
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eternaljwh wrote:
But that makes it trivial to "manipulate"- you find actions to advance/pop numbers off the stream, why not?
It's not always that easy. Particularly when the only way to pop numbers is to do the action that you don't want to do.
Rockman & Forte, a game I TASed, has an RNG that does not run every frame. Fortunately, you can advance the RNG through shooting, which does not waste time. In fact, because of this, the fact that the RNG only advances when required is a good thing since I have more control over it.
On the other hand, FDS Backgammon has a RNG that (after the title screen) only ever advances when determining dice rolls. The only way to advance it is to do the dice rolls in the first place. So if the game gives you a roll sequence of 1-2, 1-2, 1-2, ... , you can't do anything about it.
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Mitjitsu wrote:
If that system was implemented it would probably mean that the TASer will be save/reseting a lot just to get the favourable streams of luck.
Yes, you are correct.
However, on a greater scale (such as being forced to reset every 20 seconds or less of gameplay to manipulate all actions), you can't TAS what you want without making it look like a mess. The only solution would be to lower your standards.
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I don't think game companies are anti-TAS or anti-TASer any more than they are anti-cheater, but who knows?
Doing things like skewing luck is very risky as if it is discovered (maybe by cheaters), it will alienate legit players. A fundamental (unwritten) rule of luck-based games is that luck must be fair, and when it skews luck like forcing random encounters in inverse proportion to the number of random encounters already done, it is unfair.
Determining results a long time ago is a safe way of handling it. This isn't specifically TASers that are targeted. It's just a way of preventing save+reset abuse, which is quite a common action.
Things like lag or frame rule are not likely to be implemented through intent, just ignorance.
Occasionally, things do pop up that do not affect normal players but are detrimental to TASers, such as rigid RNGs (they may not even affect speedrunners since they use save+reset). For example, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Red.
There are games which are genuinely challenging to TAS (some 3D games for example) and there are games which are hard to TAS for all the wrong reasons, but not because of malicious intent. I don't recall a game that locks you out near the end for going too fast, but I can't say there will never be such a game.
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I uploaded a full version to megavideo (important: read the instructions below):
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=XX2T9LCZ
Instructions:
Click the red button. An ad may pop up and your window may switch. Just keep track of where it came from. Now where the red arrow was, a green button will eventually appear. Click the green button.
Some trivia: This TAS destroys as many non-bosses as bosses (14 each).
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We already had a set route, though it was long ago.
There are a few things. First, no item in this game (except Golden Armor) requires leg upgrade; with well-placed wall-jumps, it is possible to make the necessary jumps to reach the items.
Second, the ice blocks in Buffalo's stage can be broken with Tornado Fang, Tunnel Rhino's weapon.
Third, the Kangaroo ride armor item can be reached with just charged Frost Shield and arm upgrade (it produces an ice block that rises in water).
Fourth, yes, normally it is beneficial to reduce revisits, but if Gravity Beetle is not beaten, there is a ship-and-block sequence in Blast Hornet's stage that takes at least a minute. Since beating Blast Hornet is necessary for Gravity Beetle's heart tank, it is better to revisit to get it.
The route was:
Tunnel Rhino
Blizzard Buffalo
Neon Tiger
Toxic Seahorse
Gravity Beetle
Blast Hornet
Gravity Beetle (revisited)
Vile (via Volt Catfish)
Volt Catfish
Crush Crawfish
Tunnel Rhino (revisited)
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Randil wrote:
Could you (or someone else for that matter) please provide an .avi or youtube video for us without the game ROM? I'll watch this as soon as one becomes available. :)
I don't have time right now to encode an AVI. If anyone wants to encode one, go ahead.
I'll encode one if no one has done so in 3 days.
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The mid-air hadoken trick should surprise many viewers.
FractalFusion wrote:
In any case, very good job. Personally, I didn't think it was worth 120000 rerecords, but you gave up a lot of time for it, so I congratulate you in that regard.
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As suggested by Randil, I made an AVI with most wait times and cutscenes cut out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZrxSel6heg (may not be ready yet)
I cut out the transitions between levels and the transitions between capsules at the boss refights as well. I left in the Alia dialogs in the intro level and a clip of the Enigma blowing up.
The last level is insane on the codec. I can't see that a x264 bitrate (16-bit color though I don't know for sure if it matters) lower than 600 is reasonable. I used VirtualDub and a bitrate of 800.
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There was a tool-assisted Guitar Hero 3 on XBox over a year ago:
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6558
If we are only allowed to use macros, desyncs would be a very big problem. Only games without randomness like Guitar Hero 3 could be done (even then, the author had to run it multiple times before it would play all notes perfectly).
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Satoryu wrote:
concerning Ultimate X, i'm doubting that's it's worth getting in a TAS. for a nonTAS, it's a must, though.
I checked, and Nova Strike does 8 damage. It can't be spammed either. The only way to stop it early is to dash into a wall.
Black Zero does the same SDC damage as Zero, so that can't be used either.
Atma wrote:
In Final stage, when you reach the second ride armor (which floats where there are no platforms) there is a wall in the next spike pit which has no spikes; it is possible to wall jump off there directly to the top of the other side, without grabbing its wall.
I just tried this, but unless that wall right next to the spikes has a ridiculously small grab range like the one in Virus Red, it doesn't get enough height to clear the wall as you die when you try to get close enough until zero is quite far down. I imagine that this would save maybe 2-5 frames though if it was pulled off successfully.
Scratch this. I forgot that I used air dash to make it successfully. I have short-term memory.
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Atma wrote:
FractalFusion wrote:
If you aren't joking...
I meant if you were joking about wondering how it came to that conclusion, not if you were joking that it came to that conclusion. Of course I know that.
And you quoted yourself. I fixed it.
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In Virus Purple stage, the second ride armor enemy you hit can be bypassed by jumping over it, then going under the next one.
In Final stage, when you reach the second ride armor (which floats where there are no platforms) there is a wall in the next spike pit which has no spikes; it is possible to wall jump off there directly to the top of the other side, without grabbing its wall.
Otherwise, it's all good. You beat me in ways I never thought. Especially the second part of Final stage; that part is really hard.
Atma wrote:
According to the ingame timer, this TAS apparently comes in at 5 minutes 50 seconds for completion time. Wonder how the hell it came to that conclusion?
If you aren't joking... well anyway, the in-game timer only counts when you control your character in stages. It ignores cutscenes, stage select, and loss of character control. It's like that as well in Mega Man X6. In before "You are 5 minutes slower than the run at SDA".
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Before Sting Chameleon refight, isn't it better to charge up completely or as much as possible before going in?
In any case, very good job. Personally, I didn't think it was worth 120000 rerecords, but you gave up a lot of time for it, so I congratulate you in that regard.
