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I totally get what you mean, but I don't find the trick useful in the maximum coins TAS or the warpless TAS. First of all, the enemy has to be something Mario couldn't land his foot on, like a Spiny, a Piranha plant, a Firebar, or a hammer, not any regular enemy. Second, taking a hit in 4-2 in the maximum coins run means that Mario cannot shoot the Piranha plant before entering the pipe in the Warp Zone, so it would waste time.
As far as I know, it's not possible to slide through a wall while grabbing a mushroom. Mario can't move at all during that 1 second, even if he's in a wall.
However, it does remind me that taking a hit in 8-4 could save some time in the maximum coins TAS. Unfortunately I just finished improving 8-4 last night, and I'm not planning to redo the whole 8-4 again with a much more complicated strategy, so I guess I'll leave it to the future improvements.
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To be honest, I don't really get the idea of dying. Dying in SMB just for a few coins is definitely not cool to me. Besides, it's not easy to define "unique" itself, for the basement in 1-1 and 7-1 is actually the very same basement, and perhaps no one can remember exactly which of the coins have been gotten in that run, even if he's familiar with the map.
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So it's kind of meaningless to make a maximum coins TAS for SMB2J. CuteQt has made a "getting all coins" WIP, which uses death several times, interesting to watch but also a bit strange.
Thanks for asking. There's no way to go through the staircase in normal conditions except underwater. :)
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I think andrewg's definitely making a point. We'd like to make our goal clear and simple.
When I found the loops in 4-2 and 6-2, which are probably the only 2 supernatural loops in this game besides " -1", I immediately thought: how cool to see them demonstrated in a TAS! And the maximum coins TAS makes the perfect and perhaps only choice.
Personally, I think skipping the entire world 5 might be the biggest surprise in this run. But my favorite loop is the one in 6-2, for it's so extreme and almost impossible. We've also demonstrated completing the levels at 000 time in both 4-2 and 6-2, which is also cool.
Of course it's not as interesting as the first time after watching the loop over and over again, so why not use fast forward to skip those identical parts, like I do during many cut-scenes and dialogues in other TASes? That's why I made that special encode with fast skip in those parts.
Edit: By the way, by my calculation, andrewg's improvement brings us exactly 1 more coin, and I'm pretty sure the ending time in 8-4 will also be 000, same as 4-2 and 6-2. Awesome. I'll be setting this to "canceled" shortly and begin to improve 8-4.
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It saves time since we have to manipulate screen X position as well as getting those 2 coins anyway. You can see Mario has slightly moved to the right, as the fall is not like a regular fall. Mario touches the right side of the platform, which is equal to a bump, saving about 4 frames and getting 1 extra pixel of screen X position at the same time.
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Oh my god! Bravo, Angrewg! We've never thought about that before. According to my test result, that glitch saves about 1 in-game second each time, therefore it could produce different result on coins, though I'm currently not 100% sure. Let me do more calculation first. Thanks. :)
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Awesome run, almost perfect in every way, keeping me entertained throughout the way. Thank you for your great work, and yes vote. :)
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Sorry. Not a good hack nor a fully optimized run, but mostly it's the first reason that doesn't make this run interesting enough. Keep working.
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Awesome freeplay. I love it! Thanks.
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I always love watching Super Demo World runs, but I've never expected it to be so impressive! Great improvements! Yes vote of course. :)
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I tried it back when I made the SMB2J TAS, and that pipe in 8-1 would always send you back to the start, as it should, because when the first exit is not loaded, the default would be the start of the level. I don't know what happened in the 3DS's emulator.
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Probably MEGA's problem. File reuploaded, and I think the new link will do. Thanks. :)
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Extremely sorry for the delay guys (especially Mars608). This movie was actually finished about a month ago, but I don't know what infected me, taking me nearly a month to finish the submission text... Sorry again. :|
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I would suggest you ignore that temporarily and finish your amazing TSRP2 run as quickly as you can. You can do it. :)
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Not as entertaining as I expected (mostly during the first half), but still a great run. Yes vote.
I like that screenshot best. :)
Edit: I wonder what SDW any% run would look like using Reznor glitch. Would it be more interesting?
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Well that's not true. I'll take one place as an example. See the screenshot from 1-A:
There are 8 hidden coins. And what you want to do is to jump above the high wall. Well I failed to see that it's a "tightly constrained" situation. Mars608 and I thought about at least 4 possible solutions, and each solution is more incredible than another.
So is other places, and your imagination is not restricted. You can see I broke the puzzle lots of times in the run, making it different than the original solution, and there's no solution that can be defined to be "right".
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The word "annoying" is only for people who don't know how to use glitches to complete the level. To them, every hard hack looks almost the same, because the only thing flashing in their mind is, "I don't wanna waste my time trying one of those hacks". But as I said, there's a big difference between hacks like Kaizo Mario World 1&2 and Hard Relay Mario, although they're both considered hard. Kaizo Mario World is simply a combination of hard stages the author could think of, and you can see the solution just by viewing the map. Personally I don't like trying one of those hacks because I think it's just a waste of time, and I would consider them as "annoying". But the latter, Hard Relay Mario is not designed to be annoying, for it's a clever maze designed not only to test your techniques skills, but also your brains, so people who have the abilities could actually enjoy themselves solving the puzzle.
But it's a pity that in the eyes of those who don't have that kind of ability, Hard Relay Mario seems to make no difference. And it's impossible to persuade them, for you can't ask them to learn several SMB tricks and try to solve the puzzle themselves. For example, I don't like math and I am not good at solving math problems, making it hard for me to understand the pleasure of mathematicians proving those extremely hard theorems.
What I tried to say is, don't judge Hard Relay Mario simply the same way as other hard hacks, because you won't discover the beauty inside it if you can't understand it.
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Slow, random, and unentertaining. Those are the 3 keywords I'd like to argue about. Other things such like how famous the hack is are not that relevant.
Slow, maybe, for it's a speedrun of one of the hardest hacks ever made, with heavy glitch abuse, and you can't expect it to be running all the way like my SMB runs. As I said, it's better to view it as a puzzle game, or a maze. I think it wouldn't be a successful maze if you could just break it drawing a straight line, right? I think PLENTY of time was saved compared to previous runs of this game, and I failed to see any part of the designs is just to waste time.
Random, meaning you haven't fully understand the hack itself. In fact, it's just the opposite of random. Hard Relay Mario is significantly different than hacks like Super Mario Forever or Kaizo Mario World 1&2, although all of them is considered to be hard, but not the same way. You can feel the designing art on the map. Every brick and Fire Bar is exquisitely placed, and each item has its meaning of existence, making it inappropriate to move or delete anything in the design. Although there's an small exception, the Koopa on the castle brick in 1-6 that make me wonder what it's used for, probably put just for fun, but the funny thing is that I skipped the rest of 1-6 using its shell.
Unentertaining, I think mostly because not many people could understand the hack and the run. It's just like watching a Spanish movie with no subtitles, and of course you won't be entertained because you have no idea what they're talking about, but Spanish people will. At the very beginning of the submission text, I said it's for those who think SMB not glitchy enough, and there are people who can enjoy a high-level superplay and people who want to.
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I see some people don't like waiting on Koopa. Well please don't blame me for I hate to be a ruiner on entertainment and I did my best to entertain during waiting time, and I don't blame the hack or the designers either, because designs using Koopa glitches are pretty normal in SMB hard hacks. I think it's just a very small part of the run, which is not worth focusing on. MMM (currently the hardest SMB hack ever) used the Koopa A LOT more compared to Hard Relay Mario, then I guess the speedrun of MMM (by Mars608) might be unbearable for some.
How about thinking it this way, the Koopa is one of the keys to solve the puzzle, and it's wating on Koopa that makes it different than a regular speedrun. For a speedrun that only breaks the game in only one pace the whole time might be not interesting to watch. Or think of it as an autoscrolling section.
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W7n is an expert on SMB hacking, probably the best in China. And I guess we can all agree that there are hundreds of SMB hard hacks, and they are not as popular as Extra Mario Bros and such, which is normal because they are mainly designed for people who like to play SMB with heavy glitch abuse.
I know that in some people's eyes, Hard Relay Mario seems nothing more than a messier version of Air or something, and few people here can actually agree that it's truly well designed. As I see it, it's a matter of taste. For example, I don't drink coffee too much, and instant coffee, McCafe, and premium coffee probably taste no difference in my mouth, but in the mouth of an expert on coffee, they may taste like a world of difference.
As I said in the submission text, it's not easy to find a SMB hard hack that I haven't played, and I even create such hacks myself, but I have to admit it's hard to reach the high level of Hard Relay Mario. Although the difficulty was exceeded by it's successor MMM by OSO, making it not the hardest in the world anymore, but in my opinion the level quality of MMM can't compare to Hard Relay Mario in many ways.
If you try to analyse each details, and compare my solution with the original solution, or actually play it yourself, you might actually agree with me on this point. In my opinion, Hard Relay Mario is way beyond other similar hacks, and that's the reason why I think it's more suitable for publication.
If I were to rate each hard hacks (difficulty / quality), I'd give (2 / 2) for Air 2, (7 / 5) for β Mario 5, (9 / 7) for MMM, and (8 / 9) for Hard Relay Mario.
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Thanks a lot, Nach. Couldn't have done it without you and the help from other friends here. :)
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I'm still working on the submission text. It's strange that I chose NES Hard Relay Mario when I submitted, but it became FDS afterwards and I couldn't change it back myself. Can anyone help?
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Yes to me, for I never knew that the vine will be kept after you die during climbing the vine. But I think it won't save any time on TASes submitted here, or the Maximum Coins TAS because death is strictly forbidden. Thanks for sharing the video. :)
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Epic quadrun, you've done it again! Easy yes vote, except personally I think the fastest time should be the No.1 goal no matter what. Perhaps the path you've chosen in SMB and SMB3 for entertainment and showing 4Ending at the sametime might increase the time overall a little bit.
Thanks for the effort you took to make such an entertaining run. I found this run quite different from the previous TAS. I like them both, and I wish there could be a way to keep both of them. :)
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