2000 re-records... in the first minute of controlling Banjo. That must be some kind of record considering there's no luck manipulation involved.
Edit:moved first edit to its own post
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Climb Ticker's Tower as Banjo, without Talon Trot:
1)Jump onto the second platform.
2)Roll off the platform at an angle.
3)Airjump back onto the platform
4)Repeat 2 and 3 once
5)Roll-airjump to the next platform
6)Repeat 2-5 for each additional platform in the middle.
7)backflip to the next level/exit tower
I haven't made it past the 4th platform on a console, but I think I could manage it with rerecords.
EDIT:Reason:Rolling off the ledge resets the timer that determines when you start sliding.
EDIT2:Got notes on second floor as Banjo.
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No, that hits Nipper once and then starts the cutscene when you bounce.
I think the fastest way in a speedrun is to jump over Nipper's right(small) claw and attack. It's possible with the right timing.
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Speaking of which I found while fooling around on Tall Tall Mountain that your forward speed apparently doesn't have its usual cap when you're sliding to a stop after pushing c^. However, you'd need to go pretty far out of your way to abuse it .
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A bit before you enter Grunty's Lair, do a roll, but cancel it with a flipflap jump on frame 5 or 6. I believe you will slide faster than walking speed and save about a dozen frames if you enter the lair right before you would jump.
EDIT:...and for 1000 rerecords you may want to consider a 'bot.
EDIT2:I discovered a way to skip the Nipper dialogue completely and beat him in about 2 seconds from first attack frame to last hit, but I don't think it's practical in a speedrun. 5 bonus points if you can guess how.
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As far as several recently discovered tricks go, I think there's a generalized programming error here:
I think the game does these in the following order in a frame:
1)Sample the input
2)Check to see if Banjo's activity status(i.e. whether he's standing, beak bombing etc.) should change, but it doesn't actually change it yet.
3)Check to see if Banjo's still on the ground
4)Update Banjo's speed and position.
5)Update Banjo's activity status
Therefore, if his activity changes, he keeps his old speed for another frame.
If he moves so that he's no longer on the ground, he stays on the ground anyway for another frame as far as the game's concerned.
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I feel that the beak bomb slide tests I did are important enough to warrent a long post of their own. Sorry about the length and the double post.
Background:The Freezeezy Beak Bomb Slide(1) seems to indicate that when you pull out of a beak bomb and land at the same time, you keep beak bomb speed for at least one frame on the ground. Furthermore, it is common knowledge that when you start a flipflap jump while moving, you keep your previous speed until you launch the jump. Finally the Rolling Flipflap Jump technique(2) shows that you can start a flipflap jump any time you are considered on the ground and can jump, even if Banjo has not yet crouched.
Hypothesis:The frame you land and pull out of a beak bomb, you can begin a flipflap jump. While winding up for the jump you will keep beak bombing speed.
Procedure:1)Locate a flight pad-target combination for which I can land a beak bomb in the proper manner shortly after launching with a high success rate.
2)In each trial, land a beak bomb on the target and attempt to backflip the instant I land.
3)If the result was a crash, throw out the trial and repeat. Otherwise, record the results.
The chosen target was the platform in Treasure Trove Cove where Bottles teaches the Shock Spring Jump. The chosen flight pad was the second one around the upper level of the course in the clockwise direction(NOT the one on Blubber's ship). The chosen number of trials was 30(95% confidence level for all failures assuming 10-frame reflexes).
Data:The first 3 non-crash trials all had the same result: Upon landing I began a flipflap jump windup and slid at beak bomb speed while doing so. I decided further trials were redundant.
Analysis:Although the hypothesis had been confirmed, the results of the test were inconsistant with a 1-frame window(>99% confidence). I therefore decided that I must have kept beak-bomb speeds for longer than 1 frame. I repeated the test a few times when I held Z during the landing but did not jump, hoping that the distance travelled would be visible at the least. Upon landing I automatically went into a crouch and slid forward starting at beak-bomb speeds and continuing until friction stopped me! This was reproducable.
Conclusion: It is possible to keep beak bomb speeds upon landing without frame-perfect timing by holding Z when you land.
References:(1)This Thread page 12 post 5
(2)This Thread page 12 post 15
EDIT:Formatted section titles.
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CONFIMED! HAH!
I predicted earlier that you may be able to jump on the frame you enter a Talon Trot in midair; Well, I just did it on console.
Directions:
1)Trigger a talon trot when you go off a ledge, as above
2)The frame you stop in midair, hit A along with the control stick in the desired direction.
I'm currently working on a beak bomb slide in places other than Freezeezy.
EDIT:Also, directions for beak buster climbing in case you missed it earlier:
1) Grab onto a climbable pole.
2) Jump
3) Wait a few frames (Timing is critical: you can ascend anywhere from 0 to ~4 meters based on timing)
4)Hit Z
You will begin grabbing at the peak of the beak buster and continue moving up at the same speed until the grab animation finishes. Perfectly done, this is noticably faster than normal climbing.
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I assumed you couldn't since you can't interrupt a roll with a duck.
Right, just like you can't start a talon trot in midair.
Directions:
1)Run towards ledge edge
2)duck
3)Hit talon trot the frame before you leave the platform.
You will fall streight down for a bit, then stop completely for a frame when the talon trot starts.
Also, in the crow's nest on Blubber's ship, talk to Bottles right as you leave the platform.
Completely unrelated, I'd like to see you dodge one of Conga's oranges by rolling off the stump and jumping back on from midair. EDIT:Sorry, you did do it(as mentioned in next post).
For someone with frame advance: Is the stop-in-midair useful anywhere? Can you jump on that one frame?
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3) rolljump is 0 loss and is pointless if the alternative is plain running.
I meant, you gain 4 frames over running at the beginning of the maneuver and lose them when you land.
bkDJ wrote:
hypothesis 3: what? you can't flipflap during a roll. I do use the momentum I have to slide while crouched and reposition myself if I have to flipflap or, later in the game, shoot eggs.
Directions:
1)Run
2)Hit B
3)Wait a few frames
4)Hit Z
5)Hit A
This works even if you rolled off a platform.
EDIT: and if you start the flipflap jump in the first few frames of a roll, you seem to move faster when sliding. An imprecise console test seemed to confirm this.
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Then you could pick a lightweight and a heavyweight and complete the course with whichever is faster.
Or you could do 2 lightweights and repeat whatever that boost is where you drive in perfect formation behind another player and then get a sudden speed boost.
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Ooh, ooh! PLZ ENCODE!!!!!!!11!!11
now that I've got that out of my system, I think we can draw the following conclusions from bkDJ's movement test:
1)When you jump across something you can save time by rolling first and flapping before you hit the ground.
2)All the speed benefit of a roll happens in the first 10 frames. All the speed benefit of a flap happens in the first 16 frames.
3)The speed loss in a rolljump happens when you land and takes 4 frames.
Hypothesis: Ending a roll in midair and flapping right before hitting the ground saves 8(!!) frames versus walking off the platform.
Hypothesis: Roll-jump-beakbuster is 4 frames faster than run-jump-beakbuster.
Hypothesis: Rolling right before each flipflap jump saves 4 frames. However, it appears to save more than 4 frames if you jump in the first 10 frames of rolling.
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I believe one slide boost will increase the top speed from 65 km/h to 70 km/h with a duration of about 2 seconds (maybe Michael can verify the exact time).
I think it's something like 70 to 80, I'm not sure exactly. It's hard to say exactly how long the boost lasts because you speed up and then slow down gradually.
I've gone of the top of the scale (110km/h) by doing a SSMT downhill with star power in 150cc. You could probably hit 120 if you did it during a boost from another player.
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Here's a trick that I'm pretty sure is the fastest form of grounded movement
Description:in any area with a slippery floor and a flight pad (i.e.only in Freezeezy Peak), beak bomb and land at a low angle the moment the beak bomb ends. You will slide for a good distance at beak bomb speeds.
[Quote="AKA"I tried doing it earlier but the fence seems to push banjo back off the cliff.[/quote]
That's not the case and I can prove it. Just enter the high area the normal way, and jump onto the fence. It'll push you off the fence but not the platform. You can walk between the platform and the ledge.
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Well I managed to collect all the honeycombs in 1:40, but it was all lot closer to 1:41. I timed it from the moment control is gained outside Banjo's house starting at the. I then checked the frame counter and found I had a time of 1:41.167. The route I took I think is definitley best if you want all the honeycombs, but not the exit since it cost an extra 5 seconds at least.
Does this mean you got the earlier collywobble jump?
What order did you get them in?
Did you start a roll right before your flipflap jump?
On a completely unrelated note, I found that Beak Buster can be used to move upward quickly. When you're climbing a pole, jump and hit z. If you timed it right, Banjo will grab at the peak of the beak bust, gaining ~4 meters' height.
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bkDJ's vid came close once, when he hung on the edge for a second or so. A small change in the angle of that jump would probably have done it. It's the right area. EDIT:Most of his jumps couldn't work because they weren't directly at the wall.
I can do this one time in three in real time by the slow method of walking into the wall and changing the camera angle. A few things that might be going wrong:
1)You may need to face directly into the wall.
2)You aren't holding the control stick the whole time you're in the air.
3)The trick requires that you be slightly imperfect for some reason.
4)It's impossible in 8 directions because the range of angles you need is less than 22.5 degrees wide.
As to providing .m64s, the rerecording version doesn't seem to work on Macs... And I don't have regular access to Windows machines, so I'm doing the vast majority of the testing on-console. :(
Edit:Cleaned up and clarified.
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This is a 100% run. Even though the honeycombs are not required to continue, it's quicker to get them now than later.
You can jump up in a better spot:
There is a place where the wall changes direction slightly. Stand just to the left of it.
Walk streight at the wall and hold R until the camera stops moving.
Then line the seam up with Banjo's right armpit.
Finally, do a flipflap jump, holding the control stick up the whole time.
Now that you've found the sweet spot, load a savesatate, roll at that spot and do a flipflap jump.
EDIT:AKA wrote:
I thought by some miracle it might be possible to walk on the rope barriers , but I doubt thats possible.
Jumping onto a fence or similar thin thing will give you a boost towards one side so that you land on the ground. Which reminds me, try jumping on each fence for a forward boost.
EDIT2:New: You can use B instead of A with the same timing in a short jump and it lands you after the first peck.
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I'll check out sda to see where exactly because it isn't obvious to me.
I did it (on a console, sorry, no .m64) and it's after the slight bend. I don't know if this is the best place to do it, and I can't do it consistantly from the right spot, so just test several positions/angles.
EDIT:How fast is [plain] 6-frame jumping in the above test?
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Edit: Sami what he means is that the initial vertical movement of feathery flap is downward so it can push you down from a jump if you are not too high above whatever you want to land on.
Use it right after you leave the ground to do a very short double jump (<30 frames), so that when you alternate rolls and jumps you spend more time rolling and less time jumping. I don't think it's useful for landing faster if you're moving down because it resets your vertical speed when you use it.
bkDJ wrote:
this will be useful for landing quickly on the huts in MM, but since the flap gives you a speed boost, landing immediately is not desirable in spiral mountain.
I believe the speed gain from more frequent rolls is much more than the speed boost from the flap, since the flap's boost is mostly vertical.
EDIT:What fraction faster is rolling than running?
FURTHER EDIT:Credit to SDA for this. When you exit Banjo's house, there's a spot along the wall on your right where you can flipflap jump up to Collywobble. The SDA people think this is faster. (Then again, they also think that walking is as fast as rolling and jumping.)
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OmnipotentEntity, I don't consider cc+gameshark as 'beating' it, but go ahead ;)
Every time CC was used to cross a gap, bomb flying would have worked just as well. Also, bomb flying could be used instead of glitching through the wall to get onto the ship. All CC did was save time and bombs.
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