Why aren't people doing the Genesis one, though? I mean, that was a cool game, one of Sega's original great franchises, and this port is pathetic.
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Hey, no problem, more ideas are ALWAYS a good thing. Don't worry about "wasting" my time! =)
And yes, I was able to get a double-bounce flight for awhile in HotW1 and it looks awesome. However, right now I'm testing out whether it would be faster to take damage here (with all those spikes flying at you) or to stick with my normal plan in USM1...
EDIT: Never mind, I figured out how to manipulate it so that I don't risk getting hit. The level is done and the new movie is uploaded. I love this one, particularly at the end when I get another double bounce and fly all the way to the end. It seems that landing and ducking at the flag is slower when doing this, so I just fly into it...
I don't crawl under that cannon block there because of the manipulation (I need the enemy ahead to take the spikes), and a couple other (slightly) suboptimal movements are made so that I can run over 1-block gaps. You can't triple bounce on that guy at the end, unfortunately, and you can't take the lower path near the end without bumping into something and losing your speed.
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Well, turns out that the lower path is actually faster at the end of USM3. I hadn't thought to try it at first, but with Cyclone it's worth it because you can jump on a guy there and bounce-fly right into the flag. Unfortunately there's no way to land before it and duck, because there's a fire guy in the way, but it's still 7 frames faster than the optimized top path.
Truncated: As for your other ideas...ducking at the hill doesn't work at all, you can't double bounce on that dragon at all, and landing on that first ledge on the top path is faster but meaningless because the bottom path is better anyway.
I also improved the lion stage a tad, I think I've gotten all I can out of this. I initially thought I could bump up into one of those blocks before the flag, then fly just enough to barely reach the ledge; the problem with that is that if you do this, you either don't make the ledge or fly straight into the flag. Using another way, I did manage to land a bit earlier, so I think this is optimized now...
The total time for this now is 3:58:48 (min:sec:frames), with right about 10,000 rerecords. Hmm, maybe I could break Sonic 3's record with this baby. =P
Next update will be after Hills of the Warrior 1...I would've added these improved levels right now, but the next level is a pretty simple one so I'll just wait until then.
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
This is awesome, I didn't think it could get much better than the last one. Bravo!
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Alright, I'm done up through USM2 again...saved 54 frames entirely from those ghost blocks. Also, while falling and flying like usual in USM2, I get him to turn into a blue cyclone helmet for 1 frame. This only happened once, don't ask me why, but I got it into the video now. =)
EDIT: Alright, just finished the lion stage and uploaded the new movie (remember, USM1 onward was all redone because of the ghost blocks). And I just realized I can probably land sooner in the lion stage, so I will work on that. Anything else, feel free to say. =)
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Even while holding A, it is still quite slow, definitely worse than jumping even. =/
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Good catch! I had a similar experience with Alien Isle, I was JUST barely missing the ghost blocks at the middle of the level. I redid it a few times and managed to cram out those extra 3 frames I needed to pass. Great feeling of outsmarting the game, huh? :)
Good luck with USM2 (again...) and USM3. At least the lion level should be a breeze, you can just fly left up to the flag.
Haha, interesting.
And yep, Isle of the Lion Lord will feature this run's first Awesome Shortcut (tm nifboy). I probably won't post an update again until that's done...
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Truncated: Thanks a lot. =)
But guess what, guys...it's redo time yet again!
I FINALLY figured out how to make it through those ghost blocks in USM1. See, if you run down that slope then run backward a bit before you fall, you'll hit the cannon blocks a bit faster than you would if you had jumped down like I did. This gives you just barely enough time to jump through the blocks as they form.
I figured this out while working my way through USM3, actually, as the same technique is the best way of going down all those little slopes in that stage. It should help in other places as well, so I'm glad I found it out now.
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
OK, I figured out the diamond trick finally. The new movie through USM2 is up now (Filespace seems to not like using the same filename more than once, even if the previous one was deleted, hence the different name).
I'm actually glad that I had a reason to redo USM2, as I improved it by quite a few frames. Now I'm sick of Under Skull Mountain in general, and the next one is the longest and trickiest of them all. It's also an area where Cyclone is going to save a ton of time, as I won't have to wait for the platforms...
So, nitpick now or forever hold your peace! =P
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
The Ninja Gaiden games all seem to have almost no luck factors, and item management is generally quite simple (mostly jump 'n slash in 1, fire wheel in 2, and vacuum wave in 3). They've already been done very well, though. =/
Vice is another one along similar lines, but I plan on improving that one sometime...
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Well, I just tested this right now, and I can tell you that if you fly after bouncing, your boost will last quite awhile, but definitely NOT forever, no matter what you do. So in the end it's not worth doing in USM2.
Also, I happen to know EXACTLY the bug you are talking about. You made me suspect something with that post of yours, and I tested it out and turned out to be right. However, the only time it seems to be useful in this game is when there's a horizontal gap that can't be jumped over and could lead to a shortcut, AND you don't have Cyclone or Skycutter...
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Y'know, I checked the tricks page before starting all this, but somehow I missed the stuff with ducking. =/ And thanks for adding Cyclone!
Within a level itself I would use the shortest route that fits within my goal. I'm trying to beat the levels themselves as quickly as possible, but use the longest set of levels.
And thanks about the diamond trick, I'll go back and do it. Don't worry, USM2 is a breeze to record since I've done it so often now. =P
The extra speed from the bounce wore off after a little while. But I forgot that he did it right when he bounced...good thing I still have my other savestate, it's time for more testing.
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Alright, USM1 and 2 are done and uploaded. Turns out those two hits in USM1 are the way to go after all. Onto the answers...
Sorry, no diamond trick. I tried...it actually wastes around a second, because it takes awhile for the diamond to drop down to you. =/
And, remember, the point of my run is longest path, sort of. If it branches at any point, I take whichever is the longest way to the point where they meet; Elsewhere A is longer than just beating HWP2, so I took that route even though getting Cyclone saves lots of time in subsequent levels. I decided upon this for entertainment purposes, as I think it's a lot of fun to watch Cyclone handle these early levels (especially considering how difficult it is to keep him in a real game).
So, Elsewhere B is quite a bit shorter than USM2 (Cyclone makes it into a total joke, but even without him this is the case), so I'm just playing through that level the normal way.
Also, USM2 is way more difficult and entertaining IMO, and I am proud of this level as it led me to discover some interesting tricks.
See, if you fall off a ledge then float, you maintain the falling speed for a little while. Thus, instead of jumping over gaps, it's generally faster to fall then just barely fly over them. It's similar to the trick of enemy bouncing then flying...that one was what led me to wonder about damage BTW. I had thought about bouncing off of a crystal in this level then flying the whole rest of the way, but the boost doesn't last nearly long enough to benefit you over the hit in USM1.
Anyway, the falling trick comes into play quite a bit in this level, especially in the second half where there's basically no room to walk. And yes, there are times in these two levels where I fall and don't use it...I have tested extensively and can say that it does not save time in these areas.
The other neat trick can be seen in the first half...watch closely to see how I cross these one-block gaps while running. Also, note that I run straight over the first two of these gaps; this is a matter of luck manipulation, which is why some of my movements prior to that point are not quite optimal.
If you knew about some of these things already, then sorry. I had never known about them and was quite happy to figure them out...anyway, watch and nitpick! =)
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
All you need to know about the magic throw and other World Warrior bugs can be found HERE (copy and paste link if it doesn't work).
There are a couple other similar bugs in SF games...the arcade version of Super Street Fighter II had one with Zangief's 360+K throw, which is a major reason people hated that game. To do that one, block any attack, then perform the throw on the first possible frame; it will grab them from anywhere on the screen.
The arcade version of Street Fighter III: New Generation had one with Alex's Hyper Bomb super. Parry any attack, then perform the super VERY quickly afterward, and you have a magic throw super. He was still almost the worst character in that game, though. =P
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Guys, don't worry, I am still working on this. I'm just testing out a couple different areas to take damage in USM1 and 2, to figure out which one is the best overall...
Truncated: Your idea about falling onto the platform works, but it's actually quite a bit slower than jumping down and floating onto it. As for standing on the cannon blocks, it doesn't do you any good because you can only stand on them for a couple frames.
Jumping down to the teleporter is indeed awesome, though, and turned out to be the only improvement I could make to that level. So once again, great thanks!
I'll post something when I finally get USM1 and 2 figured out here...
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Doesn't Kickmaster freeze at a certain point in FCEU? I recall reading something about it in one of the text files that comes with it...
So you're going to have to go back to Famtasia and no frame advance if that's the case. =/
And I personally would prefer Batman to Battletoads, but you do what you like.
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
I would have voted for the teleporter too, that's a nice little secret to show. Also, did you notice that you turned into the samurai when you ducked with the cyclone?
Yep indeed, I did...hopefully I can do it at a flag so that people can actually see it. *shrug*
- After going trough the two dragons, you don't pass the corner as close as you can when you drop down. Is there a reason for this? More horizontal speed?
Although it doesn't look like it, I actually do this as close as possible.
- After triggering the disappearing blocks, what is the jump aiming for? Lowest height which gets you over? Is is possible to land on top of one of the disappearing blocks momentarily and get falling speed instead of jumping speed afterwards, as well as lower curve (landing and starting to run earlier)? Or maybe timing it so you run trough just as the last block disappears? (probably not beneficial.) Other than that I don't have anything good which could make you pass that ghost block.
My jump was aiming to be as low as possible and reach the bottom, as that is faster than falling off those little ledges.
Landing on the disappearing blocks is an interesting move, I will definitely try that. The other idea doesn't work...
- Afterwards you spin just before landing on the mushroom block, which loses you some speed. Did you try with having less vertical motion? You will pass the upper corner later, but maybe you can clear this block making it pay off anyway.
Good thinking, I will test this one out too.
- At the end there's a glaring one: you land before you enter the hole, losing all vertical speed. Jump higher. The thing about hitting the ceiling might apply here too.
This really bugs me, but there seems to be nothing you can do about it. Believe me, I tried...at best you can land a few pixels away from the hole. The problem is that if you run any further before you jump here, you WILL fly right into the flag.
- At the ending there's a cool stunt you can pull: assuming you hit the same dimond block, you can duck at the very corner of the teleport to pick up the diamond while you're still standing on the teleporter. I don't know if you've noticed yet, but ducking resets the teleport-countdown for some reason. But if you duck right as you land, this will only cost you 1-2 frames. Yay for one extra diamond. :D
Neat, I probably will do that next time if it really is only 1-2 frames.
So now back to it...
Thanks,
Josh.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Thanks a lot for the suggestion, I ended up taking the teleporter.
And forgot Cyclone could do that! Luckily that hasn't come into play yet, but now I know...
Oh, and I just finished my second attempt at USM1, it's uploaded. What frustrates me is that I can almost but not QUITE fall through that last set of ghost blocks before they appear. Haven't figured out any ways to improve the area before then, but you guys always seem to find something. =)
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Well, thanks once again! I improved HWP2 by 15 frames, due mostly to your "crazy idea" and double bounce method.
I was able to pick up 2 diamonds in Elsewhere, and improve it by another 4 frames via better flying. For my purposes, I am very very glad that Skycutter is faster, because this bastard is ANNOYING to control...
Now, the next stage presents an interesting quandary. There is a hidden teleporter just beyond the flag, and both take you to the start of Under Skull Mountain II. The teleporter will result in a longer level time, but probably shorter real time because you get to avoid the score screen. I'm leaning toward the flag, as they take you on the same path and the flag means shorter level time...any suggestions out there?
Thanks,
Josh.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
I think Beetlejuice would take a lot of annoying luck manipulation, to always give the most lucrative beetles. Didn't get very far in it, but I do remember that much...
And Guardian Legend is one of my all-time favorite NES games, but I'm not so sure how entertaining it would be. Though it would be crazy to figure out the optimal route, I will say that.
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
fuwafuwa was working on a Gauntlet run, but the desyncs in Famtasia made him drop it. Dunno if he's gonna do it now (hell, don't even know if FCEU is any better)...
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Darn, lots of great suggestions there. I'll probably end up having to essentially redo both levels, it looks like...
One thing I can tell you: After the double jump, the reason I delay a frame before jumping again is because if you jump on the first possible frame, you keep a little bit of the momentum from the bounce. It's still slower overall than just running on the ground, so it's usually not helpful, and in this instance it hurts you for one reason: If you do it there you cannot jump over the blue monster...if you try you'll hit the ceiling and land on him.
But everything else sounds good, I'll give it a whirl...
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Alright, a new movie is up on Filespace. This one goes through the first Elsewhere.
Highwater Pass 1 took forever, as I figured out new things throughout. It ended up being 16 frames faster than in my previous run.
Highwater Pass 2 is pretty simple, turned out to be 14 frames faster than in Truncated's movie. And Elsewhere is even simpler, this was improved over his movie by 4 frames.
Lemme know what you think, I am awaiting any nitpicking before I continue!
Thanks,
Josh.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
You can ask Phil, or download it from the link in my sig.
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
