Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Captain Forehead wrote:
Although I saw some small improvements, very nicely done!
I honestly could not see any small improvements myself unless you're referring to improvements for entertainment purposes. Please list anything you think I messed up on, I might go back and redo it.
I believe the only mistake I've made so far was in the Sky Room Key Card jump. I think I could have thrown a bomb to land faster and saved a few frames.
EDIT: In response to below, I suppose that is a fair point. You seem to get more distance that way though, so there must be some balance point between how many frames you are caught on the end and how far the acceleration carries you.
There is a similar predicament in Sky Room between the staggered jumps on the moving platforms and the upcoming scrolling ground. You'll notice I don't actually hit the very beginning of the scrolling ground because I want to jump off the platform before it starts moving in the opposite direction. I try to choose the option that is best, and even though there may be a slightly faster method, I tried to test the obvious ones.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
WIP Update: Dragon Road Complete
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/198841820/Kirkq%20BOMBERMAN%20HERO%20Dragon%20Road%2020219.m64
Blue Cave +5 Frames
Hole Lake +15 Frames (No stop on vest grab, better exit. Bombing stuff is nearly irrelevant to my knowledge.)
Red Cave +104 Frames (Better platforming, no bomb jump.)
Dark Wood +34 Frames (Utilization of regained momentum via bomb drop.)
Dragon Road +36 Frames (May redo ending.)
Currently 361 Frames ahead. 5.6 Minutes in out of an estimated 50. 11% complete.
I'm a little concerned about my Dragon Road boss fight not being optimal. I understand it won't take damage until I'm in its vicinity, I'll look at it closer later.
Fun Fact: In Hole Lake you can get the 100% score without stopping except to kill the last crab.
ThMrksman wrote:
Okay, with waterway,
[....]
Also, throwing a bomb while you are in the air (sometimes?) helps you fall faster, test it, it may help, i employed the R edge trick here as well, i don't know if it was neccessary . .
I'm not really sure what you mean by "R edge trick". Am I missing a small technique, or are you just describing something obvious? Also, Dark Prison synced for me on a recent watch, something must've messed up earlier.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
See pages 1-231. It really comes up like every 20 pages or something. XD
Closest video will explain why it isn't feasible at the moment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOI4fU8_nmE
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
In an attempt to spur some real discussion...
Has anyone tried clipping into Ganon's fortress recently. I know it has seemed unfeasible in the past, but a lot of new tricks/OoB clipping techniques have been discovered since. It believe it was deemed possible to clip inside, but the distance was just too great (correct me if I'm wrong.)
Nayru's Love Hover Boots megaflips (or something to that extent) at some ridiculous heights may provide more feasible results now than they would have a year or two ago.
EDIT: Apparently I was unaware of the issue, as seen in the next post.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
I finally finished watching this. I just thought I should let everyone know that they missed out on a great movie if they haven't been watching it through now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Derakon wrote:
Incidentally, I'm a big fan of Crystalis and think that the wild-warps run completely lacks cohesion.
I was going to say something to that effect as well. I'm sure it would be a different scenario if someone found a glitch to warp between towns at will, but the fact that it's just a button combination left in the game really detracts from any novelty it would have.
I'm not entirely in favor of unpublishing the wild warps run, I just think the normal run should at least be published.
Ferret Warlord wrote:
Can I play devil's advocate and say that otherruns have a similar deal?
I'm not too familiar with the technicalities behind these resets, but would the outcome really be much different from a save and reset that takes an extra 5 seconds? I guess you can't save everywhere in Metroid, but at least this seems to me to be the case of Zelda 2. The real difference to me is "saves backtracking" vs "sequence breaks the game."
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
tmont's NES Crystalis
http://tasvideos.org/1184S.html
I honestly think we have the wrong category published for this game. This run is 9 minutes slower without using a debug cheat which would generally be frowned upon these days. The quality of the run isn't perfect, but for the most part it is done quite well. I believe this category should stand.
Blaze's N64 Super Smash Bros. 64
http://tasvideos.org/2074S.html
A fair amount of people probably disagree with me on this, which is fine. There was much discussion at the time regarding this movie, and maybe that was enough to seal the deal, but I'm bringing it up again. I think this run aiming for fastest time satisfies the site guidelines much more than the run published. I also think that the run was quite optimized and fairly entertaining while still accomplishing its goals. There's 100's of youtube videos featuring similar gameplay, why did we publish a playaround in favor of this?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Can someone describe to me how to monitor my X/Y position in Mupen? I'm able to do it in FCEUX and SNES9X fairly competently, but I don't know how it works in Mupen.
I've been using reference points/bomberman's shadow in most levels to check for lag, but it would be much easier in Hole Lake if I could monitor my x/y position at given frames, and constantly check if I'm causing lag.
EDIT: Downloaded MemoryHackingSoftware and got it running. No need for response.
I didn't need to redo Sky Room, and I gained 5 frames in Blue Cave while still bombing everything in sight.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Completed through Sky Room, 8792 frames compared to ThMrksman's 8960. ((+168))
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/224349005/Kirkq%20Sky%20Room%208792.m64
Secret Room before warp: +28 frames
Secret Room after warp: +21 frames
Sky Room before key card: +43 frames
Sky Room after key card: +23 frames
I accidentally discovered that by clipping off the side of the scrolling corridors, you can jump and have them not affect your jumping speed. This saved a lot of frames early in Sky Room, it is not applicable in Hyper Room to my knowledge (can't clip off the side). ThMrksman's key card grab off the trampoline beat my best attempt so I replicated his. Overall I must say, ThMrksman, your run was very good. Most of my frames are being gained from the TAS Input Plugin and small new tricks, which is expected on a second run through.
Dropping a bomb while falling out of the air duct in Secret Room revitalizes forward momentum. Dropping a bomb after climbing up a platform gives forward momentum faster. (EDIT: This is only true on hills where it is more difficult to accelerate.) I'm probably losing 1-2 frames every once in a while from not optimizing directions perfectly, but there would be no visual difference, and this run is 50 minutes long.
My general rule from now on will be if I can bomb an enemy at the cost of only 1-2 frames, I will do it. Also, Hole Lake I'm probably just going to sacrifice a few frames and shoot everything for entertainment purposes. Water levels are already boring enough.
Captain Forehead wrote:
ThMrksman, do you remember that trick that I tried to tell you? The last trick in that youtube video was it.
Speak up more next time. We both misinterpreted and thought you meant bomb jumping.
I'll post my next update after Nitros probably. I just got home from college and relocated my computer from its usual position at home, so my personal computer won't have internet for a few days. No IRC for a while. =(
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
I think the goal choice is probably the most entertaining, timely, and measurable. I was impressed by the creativity in setting up many of the solutions, and the pausing really wasn't that annoying.
Unless someone has a better suggestion for a good category for this run, I think this should be published.
Yes vote.
EDIT: Also yes the sound seems just a bit off from what I recall.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Your goals should be:
1: Most points (take the route that allows so.)
2: Fastest Time where it does not interfere with getting most points.
3: Most entertainment where it does not interfere with the above.
I would suggest you read all the discussion in this thread: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1443
For this TAS to be accepted it will have to beat or tie all existing scores TAS and non-TAS.
Like meepers said: Your Corneria segment should have at least --(EDIT: See Below)-- points, as this is currently the maximum anyone has achieved. (There is a video somewhere in that thread, most of the information for achieving such a score is also there.).
If you really plan to tackle this challenge, I would suggest posting your progress in the thread linked above for review on a stage by stage basis.
Being that this is a popular game, a lot of people here have put much effort into improving this run. Much information to produce a great run is present here, but a full run has not been produced. A run that does not represent all of the known tricks by the community will likely not be settled for by the community. (See: Ocarina of Time's history.)
This run is probably much more difficult than you had anticipated for a first run, but any contributions you can make to a possible future run would be appreciated by the community.
I'm not sure about 1.0 or 1.1, someone else can probably suggest which is better, but I'm sure one is more preferred than the other.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Yes vote, nice find on the final glitch and nice optimizations.
Also I found it humorous that SMB3 and SMW are within ~0.23 seconds of each other in completion time now - http://tasvideos.org/1115M.html
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
ZARr wrote:
I discovered 2 tricks in world 1 that could be useful.
The first one is skipping blowing up that rock wall in Fog Route and the other one is skipping using the bomb jump trick in Red Cave. I know a couple more tricks in some other worlds too that I'll get around to uploading sometime.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TvRr65yMK8&feature=channel_page
First One: I feel retarded for not trying that.
Second One: I tried that for quite a while, I guess I wasn't aiming for the slope, nice find. Luckily it doesn't change the health rationing plan which is outlined earlier in this thread.
I made a test run a while ago here, and most of the important notes are outlined earlier in the thread:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/708664563/BOMBERMAN%20HERO%20Final.m64
It desyncs in Heaven Sky.
Ridiculous things I did try for quite a while
- Throwing bombs at the top of the vent in Secret Room in an attempt to land on top: nowhere close.
- In Sky Room, jumping from the platform left of the exit to the exit with a bomb: so extremely close, but to no avail.
That's all I can think of right now.
I discovered it is possible to beat storm valley without killing all the screws a while ago.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
I don't think either has more 'merit' so to speak.
I personally prefer watching TASes much of the time because the overall result is much more visually appealing. More time is spent in a TAS perfecting the method instead of repeating a possibly flawed or less optimal method to perform consistently. In general, you become a lot more skilled and knowledgeable about a game's mechanics after TASing it. There are some really impressive realtime runs out there, and I'm sure many people enjoy watching them.
The TASVideos and SDA communities often both contribute to the development of tactics for a popular game.
Much of the backstory of how a TAS develops often occurs in the individual game threads and not the submissions much of the time. The author puts as much effort into the submission text as he cares to, I'm sure the same is true on SDA. Most of the information is available, just maybe not in the same place you're viewing the run.
sixofour wrote:
Well, I do not typically like TAS Videos, maby because of how they are advertised more so than how they are made.
Front Page - "TASVideos is a website formed in 2003 for publishing tool-assisted game movies. We publish recordings of classic console games, formed by constructing an input file slowly over time using an emulator as a tool to overcome human limitations such as skill and reflex, then playing the file back to give the impression that the game is played extraordinarily."
I don't think we need to state more clearly what we do here. A poorly labeled youtube video is probably the result of someone who is not a part of the community uploading the video to gain views. All videos produced here are supposed to have a logo at the beginning stating that it is a TAS, if not specified elsewhere.
sixofour wrote:
Well In general I don't find it too interesting to run through a game doing nothing special just trying to get a fast time.
We also produce playaround videos here at times. Many of them do not get published because the criteria is vague. All good TASers should show off whenever possible if it does not cost time.
The point of most of the videos is to impress the audience by showing how fast a game could possibly be beaten with the given knowledge at the time.
sixofour wrote:
but you have all these extra tools available and [most] of the tas runners can't do anything remotely creative other than a speed run and juggling some turtle shells?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Up through Hyper Room complete:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/161978892/BOMBERMAN%20HERO%20Hyper%20Room%204494.m64
Frames Gained: (I'm using the TAS input plugin; I was sure to move from point A to point B on the straightest path possible.)
Intro +3
Battle Room +17 (Better accelerated jump after booster) I cannot get into the exit any better because of the jumping forward acceleration, I believe it is precise under the circumstances.
Hyper Room +33 (Precisely executed jump and bomb)
(In response to below: Bombs can sometimes be dropped without losing time (only while jumping to my knowledge), I monitored frames very closely to be sure no time was lost.)
This will probably be all I post this week, I have finals to study for.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
I get a desync at the end of warp room jumping just short of the final warp.
If you can still view dark prison (maybe you still have the bad save you loaded off of.), can you perhaps upload a video of just your dark prison route?
I made a complete table of frame values to reference your run as I progress, and I will get started soon. Expect updates to start coming in about two weeks.
I may edit more onto this post later.
EDIT: Battle Room complete, (I think?) , jumping over the last enemy may have lost me a couple frames. I'm 19 frames ahead currently due to a better accelerated jump after using the booster.
EDIT2: saved another frame while altering slightly to bomb the last enemy. 20 frames ahead, 3 in game intro, 17 in Battle Room
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Brilliant run. I can only imagine the magnitude of the memory manipulation puzzle going on behind the scenes. I've been looking forward to this run for a long time and the improvement is just insane. Definite yes vote. I would also 10/10 if available.
I would personally also vote for a second category, but the second category would theoretically go to inichi's previous test run if submitted. Where would the line be drawn for glitches though.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Most progress is good progress. I'm sure you found some things I will miss, so it would be worth my while to observe your WIP. I do plan on starting from scratch though.
(Just edit your post if you want. Add comments to where you think I could improve or if you found any neat movement tricks that haven't been mentioned.)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(208)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
ThMrksMan's World 1 progress:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArxX0LjhDa8&feature=channel_page
Also I plan on taking this up after/while I'm finishing working with 7th Saga this summer (I'm done with the college semester in 3 weeks.). My test run (complete with late game desync.) is a few pages back if anyone is interested. If anyone wants to work with me or review progress just let me know.
