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Hm, I think I understand your point better now. The fact, that they are really two different games (even though the gameplay seems to be exactly the same) makes this case unnecessary hard...
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Mazzin wrote:
EZGames69 wrote:
Why is the GBC version not being used?
this is gonna be a very long and probably never ending discussion but i will try to answer it anyway:
i tested every version before i started making my run and in the end my conclusion was that all versions are exactly the same in terms of gameplay, so the only difference would be the lag from the emulation itself, but that is exactly the reason why i did decide against it.
I'm not exactly sure, what you mean by this, so I'm not gonna comment that part.
Mazzin wrote:
due to the faster emulation of the konami collection (likely only caused by less lag frames) the overall speed of the game is way higher than the original gameboy versions and because of this, the sound and music of the game is significantly changed too and even spikes every time the amount of lag changes in a scene.
and in my opinion this hurts the viewability a lot.
Hmm, I honestly don't notice that much of a sound difference between the two versions. To me the gbc version sounds a bit more "8 bit" than the gb version haha (whether one likes it or not is of course a personal thing). And honestly, the sound of the gbc version does not deter me from watching it and I strongly believe it would NOT hurt the viewability at all.
Mazzin wrote:
and not only the audio is worse in the konami collection, but also the seemingly prettier colors have some obvious down sides like wrongly colored edges that look cheap and not showing hit detection on enemies is a huge deal from a viewing standpoint.
First of all, the original gameboy is monochrome so the gbc doesn't have "seemingly prettier colors" but it has colors in the first place. Moreover, I assume, the "wrongly colored edges" you are refering to are the ground, platform and ceiling elements of stage 2? (and maybe some other I missed out?) Well, as far as my knowledge goes, this is due to the very nature of the gameboy color (and various other consoles), where each tile is drawn with a certain given pallete of - if I'm not mistaken - 4 colors. So, the reason, why these "cheap" looking edges exist is not because the programmers were lazy or something, but because of the limitations of the technology of that time. If you take a closer look at these very tiles of stage 2, you notice they choose a dark brown for the "extra" pixels and not black, yellow or white, so it looks to me like they knew very much what they were doing and they choose this dark brown because it looked most appealing to them, given the blue sky as a contrast.
My opinion on this: The non existing hit animation is sad, but at least to me it is ok. In addition, I absolutely adore the gbc coloring here. In my eyes this game is a very good example of a beautifully colored gbc game. Please don't take this persoally, since this is just my opinion on the topic(!), but from a viewing standpoint, I don't see this as a "huge deal" and I'd rather watch the gbc version than the gb version.
Moreover: The Movie Rules state:
If the game has full-color graphics for Game Boy Color, Game Boy Color mode should be used.
(I know, strictly speaking, they are both different games, but are they really that different? hmmm... (I am not the person to judge, correct me if I'm wrong))
Mazzin wrote:
so long story short:
other than the reduced lag in the emulation itself, the color version only has negatives compared to the original GB versions and since the gameplay itself is technically identical, i purposedly went with the "better" version instead of the least laggy. and speaking of visuals, only the japanese version features the bats and moon title screen and that's why i picked that.
Haha this is funny, as to me the exact opposite is true! I pretty much see only positives in the gbc version. Hmmm furthermore, if your goal is the fastest completion, I'd strongly suggest using the less laggy version!
Mazzin wrote:
Samsara wrote:
For the record, this IS a gameplay improvement over [1612] GBC Castlevania: The Adventure by arukAdo in 14:58.70. The mentioned "pause delay" glitch is used incredibly sparingly in the published run, but it is used far more often in this one, which removes a ton of lag and helps with rope jumping. The slower time is due to the normal GB version lagging a lot more in general (at least as far as I understood from the explanation, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).
arukAdo is using the new improvements in this movie for a GBC version improvement, but I feel like this run can be acceptable in the meantime assuming the GBC improvement takes a while to be completed.
this is correct.
unfortunately there is no accurate way to compare GBC and GB versions but calculated from the results of my rough version testings, the time of my submitted run here would be around 13:45.xx minutes in GBC time. so if anyone is confused about the times, use this for reference instead!
I feel kinda dumb, but could you please explain to me how you calculated that time? Probably I'm just missing something, sorry 'bout that..
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Wow, I've never seen a Mario Party TAS ever before. This was really funny!
In addition, from reading your submission comments, it seems to me, that the RNG manip in this run is really quite highly optimized.
Definitely a yes vote from me :)
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Thanks Arc, for going more in depth with this submission. That just proves, you are Totaly Awesome, too!
Yes, you are right, I in fact have tased this route before. If you or somebody else has any other suggestions, I guess you can consider asking me first as the propability is rather big, that I have already tried a particular route by myself. Suggestions are very welcome though, as there is always a chance I could have missed out on something.
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GJTASer2018 wrote:
KiwiCracker wrote:
However, I just want to mention, that there are accepted TASes of f. e. Minesweeper, Polarium and Rubics World, which more or less fall in the same cathegory as this game (1P, puzzle, no action).
Problem: All of those submissions are older ones, and I believe were submitted and accepted before the rules regarding such games for Vault eligibility were set in their current form. Someone (ideally, a judge different from the one that handled the original submission) would have to determine whether those games would be acceptable under the current ruleset before referencing them as an argument for accepting this submission.
Yep, I guess you're right, the newest one of these dates back to 2014.
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Wow, incredible how fast you managed to finish the rest of the game 0.0 It's definitely a yes for entertainig from me, as I really enjoy this game casually, and watching this TAS is just mindblowing and really fun haha.
Like Fortranm, I also favor the SGB movie, just because it's visually way more appealing to me. Although I guess one could argue wether colors are SO important for a game, which main focus lies on arranging black and white squares on a grid... (but I still feel like it changes the overall atmosphere quite a lot.)
Now on to the next topic, pointed out by SmashManiac:
I would like to point out that a nonogram is technically a paper & pencil game. As such, the Vault eligibility of this submission, which is exclusively about solving nonograms, is questionable.
I guess this is a very reasonable and valid claim and well, I also kinda agree with you. However, I just want to mention, that there are accepted TASes of f. e. Minesweeper, Polarium and Rubics World, which more or less fall in the same cathegory as this game (1P, puzzle, no action).
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I gotta admit, I'm fairly new here, but I still want to share this story with you :)
My first TASing attempt was pretty much exactly 1.5 years ago (I still have the file, so i know haha).
Back then I was really into speedrunning Kirby's Dream Land. And I loved it. A lot.
By any means, I wasn't really good at it or anything, but for me it just was the most fun thing to do and I couldn't imagine anything quite better than sitting there for hours desperately hoping to get at least some reasonable RNG, which of course I would never get ;)
And although my personal best was far far away from the world record, I wondered what the theoretical-minimum-limit-ever could possibly be (I also wanted to search for cool glitches I perhaps missed out). So the only logical thing I thaught was left to do, was to search for a TAS on YouTube (I didn't quite know what tool assisted speedruns really were, but I remembered seeing a KNIDL TAS some time ago, so I knew at least that a TAS was what I was looking for). It wasn't long until I eventually found one for KDL. It was amazing. I came across MUGG's TAS and was totaly blown away! The gameplay was epic, the speed was epic, the luck was epic. I definitely watched it at least a few more times before I realized what actually happened there hahaha. But as I speedrunned this game, the craziest part was, that it took the TAS only 8:xx minutes to finish the game, although the world record was 11:xx at that time.
The only problem for me was... that the TAS played through the game in extra mode, while I was speedrunning the normal mode... Sooo, after not being able to find a normal mode TAS, I figured, I had to make my own TAS :] How hard could it be?... Kappa... It turned out to be harder than anything I could have ever imagined ahahaha
I started looking up tutorials about TASing, found out about BizHawk, movies and TAStudio. I was ready to go, so I loaded the ROM and began TASing. After a few minutes I realized, how unbelievably slow my TAS actually was, compared to MUGG's. I still tried for the next few days, but eventually got so frustrated, I quit it completely, after not even completing the first stage of the first level.
So yeah... my first TAS attempt was quite a failure, but I love it now :D
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Alright thanks, did it :)
I also added your real name, because I saw you added it in other submissions as well. I also gave you edit privileges, because it seemed appropriate ;)
I also adjusted the submission text.
And it would be nice if you could rewrite some of the level by level points, as you actually know best whats happening there, because you have actually done the most part haha
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Yep, great luck manip and movie :)
I'd like to add you to the submission authors/players, of couse only if you would agree to that. But I gotta admit I don't quite know how to do it... would I need to add you as an "extra privileges" person? Or just manually write your name in the players section? Or something else?..
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Dang, you got me there haha :D
I also just finished my attempt, but I only got it down to 17284 ;-;
I haven't taken a look at yours yet, but I'm already amazed! 0.0 I'll take a look now and write again after I've watched it.
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WOW! I never even thought about manipulating the pin's spawning column, as I wrongfully assumed it would behave in a similar way as the Bubble Eater.
The idea of manipulating it to kill the Eater is GENIOUS! :D
Your improvements in the userfile movie are great so far! I'll go on and search for further improvements now.
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Blazephlozard wrote:
Watch out, you'll get yourself typecast as the "bouncy ball games" guy.
Hahaha yes xD I'm definitely tired of ball games for now, my next will be different for sure.
Blazephlozard wrote:
You can begin on Level 3 by holding the Select button before starting, but I would guess that is considered a level select password of sorts.
Yeah, I think the same. But if it isn't considered as one and people prefered the shorter version I guess I wouldn't bother much if the first few parts fell off then.
Blazephlozard wrote:
I'll look into trying to save any frames, but at a cursory glance, it looks very optimized.
Sure, try your best! If I recall correctly, there are at least one or two stages with a pause taking longer than one whole jump, but whatever I tryed would make it just worse. If you find anything, that would be awesome!
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If I may also comment on my own sumbission:
The one thing I realized while watching the encode is the occasional flickering apppearing. While I was making the movie, I didn't notice it, because this never occured when I played it back on the emulator. (Of course I knew about the flickery nature of this game, but as it was never a problem, I thought it wouldn't make a difference in the encode.)
So I guess this problem can can very well be seen as a violation against this rule:
"If a movie has entertainment significance which is deemed negatively, such as sickening camera angles, seizure inducing activity, and other rectifiable presentation decisions within it, the movie is not eligible for any tier."
This rule can be found here at
>The movie must be good
>>The movie should not be painful to watch
Of course this is up to the judges, but I just wanted to point it out here, because it seemed appropriate to mention it.
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brunovalads wrote:
the top x speed to the right is 8 pixels/frame, but to the left it's 9 pixels/frame, and when you hit a wall your speed value is negated, combining these 2 properties, you negate the left top speed into the right speed by simply hitting a wall to the left and immediately holding right.
Thanks to brunovalads, I was able to improve the original movie by a total of 105 frames. Here is the new file: User movie #62910083459768929
The improvements I made thanks to brunovalads:
- Level 9: 53 frames
- Level 14: 2 frames
- Level 18: 51 frames
- Level 20: 9 frames
Unfortunately, I couldn't find a way to successfully implement brunovalads trick in the later levels; that's why the improvement seems to suddenly stop after level 20.
Other changes to the movie:
- Level 46: Saved 5 frames, due to better optimisation
- Level 47: Lost 15 frames, due to the random lag behavior
=> Total: 105 frames faster
brunovalads, as for the other trick you pointed out. I tried to make it work multiple times, but sadly couldn't. Maybe you can somehow manage to do it.
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Thank you Personman!
Thank you CoolHandMike!
I'm very happy, that you liked it :)
CoolHandMike, I agree, It's very sad there is no music in this game. Would suit it well I guess.
Personman, sure, I'm looking forward to it as well!
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brunovalads wrote:
[...]i did a lot of research and I made a Lua script that could help you a lot. In order to display extra info i used the ball image and the tilemap image, make sure to get these and put in the same folder of the script. I have a RAM map too, i could paste here if you want.
Wow! That's awesome! I will definitely try it out asap!
brunovalads wrote:
• In level 42, you could reach the last heart early by going Out Of Bounds, which is simply done by clipping into the right side of the screen, the "barrier" is simply a wall of breakable blocks! And it's easy to get back, I'll make a better explanation of Out of Bounds later.
Hmmm, very good idea. The only problem I see here is that, as far as I know, in order to clip into walls, I need a corner. I could not find a way to clip into walls without first cliping through a corner. So trying to clip through the wall outside the screen was never an option for me. On the other hand, I am not very familar with the concept of "Out of Bounds". So maybe there is a way of clipping into walls, I am unaware of. I will definitely try it again, now that I can use your Lua script!
brunovalads wrote:
• It seems that you didn't find out that you can get an extra speed if you bounce on a wall going left: the top x speed to the right is 8 pixels/frame, but to the left it's 9 pixels/frame, and when you hit a wall your speed value is negated, combining these 2 properties, you negate the left top speed into the right speed by simply hitting a wall to the left and immediately holding right. Knowing changed the way i did some levels, so i guess there's plenty of room for this trick.
I indeed didn't know about that! I'll se what I can do with that.
brunovalads wrote:
I'm sure we could improve this run.
If you are intrested in improving it, it would be a pleasure for me to work with you :)
