Posts for Lobsterzelda


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Post subject: Updated Idea For Spawning The Warp Portal
Lobsterzelda
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Actually, after taking a closer look at the memory values, I got another idea for a way to spawn the actual warp portal object. Address 0X0C contains a frame counter that increments by 1 every 2 frames, and resets to 0 when you die. 0X0D contains the number of the level you're on, which in the case of level 3 is 3. If 0X0B (which is a frame counter that increments by 1 every frame and resets to 0 when you die) is equal to 255 and the object pointer is pointing to 0X0B, then the object pointer will interpret 0X0C-0X0D as being the 2 byte address of the next spot to read objects from. Thus, the game sets the object pointer to this value + the object size (11 bytes). This sets the address to 0X3FF + 0X0B = 0X40A. If the value in 0X40A is 0 (which is possible, since 0X40A is the low x-coordinate of some object, which can also be manipulated beforehand), then the object pointer increments by 0X0B again to 0X415. 0X415 is the address of the high y-position byte of the 5th object in memory. The next 8 memory addresses after this represent the high y-positions of the 6th through 13th objects in memory. When the object pointer is increasing, it can be "held still" by holding down a certain button combination on frames when the pointer points to address 0X2C (which also doesn't load any new objects). Thus, we can hold the object pointer until the frame counter hits a desired point, then press all buttons on player 2's controller to reset the object pointer back to 0, and then 0X0B will be used to load the desired value. If we don't want 0X0B to be used but instead want to reset the object pointer to 0 (so that we can load more objects), then we can wait until 0X0B contains an invalid ID value, which means that on the frame after a new object is written from 0X0B's value, the object will be deleted again. Furthermore, when the object pointer hits 0X21, the high y-byte of the object that loads is based on the value of RNG address number 2, which is fully controllable with user input! Thus, we arrive at a unified strategy for how to spawn the warp portal: we keep holding the object pointer still until 0X0B contains an invalid ID, then we loop back around, load an object with the desired high y-byte value, and repeat until we have all the objects in place that we want. Then, we wait until 0X0C and 0C0D form the 2 byte value address of 0X40A, whose value we manipulate to be 0 when spawning objects. The frame counter then jumps to address 0X415, and loads the object with the properties of the 9 high y-position parameters that we set, which causes a warp portal to spawn right on top of the toad, which takes us to the next level! Of course, if only things could be so simple... There are still roadblocks that make this theory difficult to achieve in practice. Namely, 0X21 contains temporary values from calculations, and on most frames is set equal to 0. If 0X21 is equal to 0 when the object pointer is looking at it, then no object will be loaded , and the object pointer instead skips to the next value (which is 0X2C). One idea I have to fix this is based on the observation that when a toad dies by voiding out in level 3, it creates a series of ball objects that "bounce away" from where the toad died. When this object is loaded, it tends to make the value in 0X21 alternate between 5 and 0 every other frame. Thus, by loading an object with the ID of the bubble, maybe we could then make 0X21 be non-zero. However, doing this would block the object spot where we need to set one of the object values for later manipulation, so this might not be a good idea (unless there's a way to spawn a bubble object which also has the desired high y-byte of 0X22). There may also be ways to manipulate this value without loading any objects at all, which could be a promising alternative. However, this isn't an easy task. You can try every combination of buttons and movements possible, but most of the time, there's just no way to get this address to equal something else... The pieces are almost coming together, but they need a little more work. Does anyone have any ideas for strategies I could try going forwards to put this all together into a working strategy?
Post subject: Battletoads 2P Warps
Lobsterzelda
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Battletoads 2P Warps. I could also make commentary for the TAS, although I wouldn't appear on camera.
Lobsterzelda
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Challenger wrote:
Very insane discovery. Finally we can see both skips on any%!
Just to clarify, this trick would be used (if allowed) in the 2P Warps TAS, not in the any% TAS. Although I may be misinterpreting what you're saying.
Post subject: Battletoads Situation
Lobsterzelda
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A link to a full description of the issue can be found here: http://tasvideos.org/forum/p/499862#499862 Essentially, what I want to know is if a certain trick can be used in a Battletoads 2P Warps TAS. In the current Battletoads any% TAS, in level 3 we use a glitch to get the game into a state where it loads objects from the wrong part of memory, and then make the game load an object with a corrupted function pointer, which makes the PC eventually jump to the credits, thus beating the game. In the current Battletoads 2P Warps TAS, we use the same initial glitch to get the game into a state where it loads objects from the wrong part of memory. Then, we make the game load an object with an ID of 0X7F, which is an object normally loaded at the end of level 12, which signals to the game to load the next level (allowing us to immediately end level 3 and go to level 4). Using a newly discovered trick, we can do the same initial glitch to make the game load objects from the wrong part of memory, and then make the PC jump to the first line of code that gets executed when you touch a warp portal (which normally advances you 2 levels forwards), which in turn ends level 3 and causes level 5 to start immediately. Basically, I want to know if this glitch is too similar to what exists in the current any% TAS for it to be used in the 2P Warps TAS.
Post subject: One More Thing...
Lobsterzelda
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Oh btw, one more thing: The new TAS WIP contains a faster level 5 by voiding out of the level faster. This saves about 20-something frames over the currently-published 2P Warpless category, so this new level 5 strategy will be useful for anyone who wants to obsolete the current movie.
Post subject: Battletoads 2P Warp from Level 3 to 5 Found!
Lobsterzelda
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Hello everybody. I am writing a message here to keep you all updated on a big new trick that's been found in Battletoads. Additionally, I want to get feedback from other people as to whether or not this particular trick would be acceptable for a non-game-end glitch TAS of Battletoads. Background: For some background context, you can read the description on this userfile movie here: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/66281983305428941#Comment665 But anyways, here's the shorthand version: A few months ago, Koorvex discovered some long-lost videos of an unfinished Battletoads 2P warps TAS that was abandoned sometime in 2012 or 2013. This TAS contained a different strategy for level 10, which I was able to include in the new TAS of Battletoads that was published, which saved about 2 seconds over the old run. Recently, Koorvex emailed Zlomus to ask him if he had any other information about the videos. In response, Zlomus sent him a movie file of a movie from 7-8 years ago where the checkpoint glitch is used in level 3 to warp directly to level 5, skipping level 4 entirely! Technical Details: Current 2P Warps TAS Strategy: In the currently published 2P warps TAS, after the checkpoint glitch is activated in level 3 (which occurs when you die on the jets before hitting the first checkpoint), the game starts loading objects based on the values contained in certain memory addresses which normally wouldn't be used to load objects. One of these addresses happens to contain player 2's inputs on the last frame (represented as a number from 0-255), which lets us control the ID of the object that spawns. Using this, we spawn the object with ID 0X7F. Whenever this object is loaded, the game starts a countdown to the next level, after which we move on to level 4, skipping the rest of the turbo tunnel. Current Any% TAS Strategy: Next up, we have the current "Any%" TAS of Battletoads (this is more accurately referred to as the "game-end glitch" branch on the website, but i'll write any% here anyways so people reading this post who aren't familiar with the current Battletoads TASes understand that this TAS represents the fastest possible way to beat Battletoads). Much like in the 2P warps TAS, we start off by activating the checkpoint glitch in level 3. This time, however, we make it so that an object loads which has a corrupted function pointer. Thus, when the game tries to follow this pointer, the PC gets set to some invalid instruction left near the end of the ROM. From here, the PC keeps executing invalid instructions that do nothing except advance to the next instruction. When the PC gets high enough, it jumps back to the beggining of the code in the ROM, which happens to be the start of the function that loads the end cutscene. As a result, the game ends, and Battletoads is beaten in a short 2 minutes without ever fighting the dark queen! New TAS Strategy: Lastly, we arrive at the TAS re-discovered by Koorvex, which is the reason for this post in the first place. In this case, we do the checkpoint glitch in level 3 to start things off, just like in the other TASes. Then, we make an object load with a corrupted function pointer. When the PC tries to jump to the first line of code in the object's function, it instead jumps to the first line of code of the function that gets called when we activate a warp portal. Because of this, the game thinks that we touched the warp portal (even though it was never even loaded into memory), and we jump ahead to level 5, skipping level 4 completely! Issues of Validity: Given the nature of how glitches are used in all 3 TASes, there are certain issues that will arise if a new 2P Warps TAS is made which uses the new trick to skip level 4. The 2P Warps TAS is supposed to represent the fastest way to beat the game without activating the game-end gltich, which in the past meant that the checkpoint-glitch could only be used to load objects into memory, not to make the PC jump to some new point. In contrast, the any% TAS (or GEG TAS) is allowed to do whatever it wants, so it makes the PC jump to a spot in code that will let us reach the credits. Basically, the central issue is this: TASes of the form "Any% No X" typically require the TASer to beat the game as fast as possible without using some much faster glitch or trick. For example, Ocarina Of Time "Any% No Wrong Warp" tried to beat Ocarina Of Time as fast as possible without using the wrong warp glitch. The 2P Warps TAS has essentially been the TAS "Any% No Game-End Glitch", since this was previously the fastest way to beat the game without jumping to the credits. However, if both the any% TAS and a non-any% TAS use a PC jump to change execution, with any% going to the credits and non-any% going only 2 levels forward, would this be considered an arbitrary distinction that should prevent this glitch from being allowed? Returning to the example of Ocarina Of Time for a moment, an ACE exploit was found in OOT last year that let users warp directly to the credits. For this reason, an Any% TAS was made of OOT which uses ACE. However, TASes of OOT on this site are not allowed to use ACE to, for example, arbitrarily give link all items and make him an adult, and then have him beat all adult temples and then ganondorf. This category would be considered to arbitrarily allow a glitch but not use it in one spot where time could be saved in order to make a different category, which would make it too similar to Any% to qualify as a seperate category (so it would only be acceptable as a playaround). Based on all of this, this leaves one final question: Should the current Battletoads 2P Warps TAS be allowed to execute a jump to the warp portal code in memory? I look forward to getting feedback from this, and hearing what you all think :) Be sure to post whether or not you think a PC jump to skip level 4 should be allowed in the Battletoads 2P Warps TAS down below!
Lobsterzelda
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Supposedly, doing the castle crush glitch in Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy Kong's Quest (for the SNES) can sometimes cause people's cartridges to become unusable. However, it's possible that this is just a rumor, so further testing would have to be done to confirm that this could actually happen. For example: Link to video
Post subject: Incredible!
Lobsterzelda
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Incredible movie! This TAS has pretty much everything that you could ever want in a TAS: extreme luck manipulation, frame-perfect movement, thorough decompliation, arbitrary code execution, and even humor (I laughed when link threw the deku nut followed by the credits immediately appearing)! This is an obvious yes vote, and I recommend that this movie be published to stars, as well!
Post subject: Submission Text Updated!
Lobsterzelda
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I've finally finished updating my submission text! Even if you've already read my earlier submission text, I recommend that you read my new notes for level 12 of this TAS. You won't regret it!
Lobsterzelda
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I'm happy to announce that I've finished making my improvements over the current movie on the workbench. As such, I request that this movie file replace the current movie file, which is over 4 seconds faster than what I originally had: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/65317776403781880 Later tonight, i'll update my submission text to include a detailed explanation of all of the new timesaves here, but in the meantime, the shorthand version is: I saved 2 seconds in the rat race (level 10), and cut out a lot of lag frames in level 12.
Post subject: The ride never ends...
Lobsterzelda
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I know that I said that I was done with this game... BUT... I made a much more complex script which is capable of saving even more time. I'll make an update later on explaining what I've found, but in the meantime, I would like this submission to be either set to delayed or not judged quite yet.
Lobsterzelda
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feos wrote:
Is my input still there this time around?
No, this time it's just my input.
Lobsterzelda
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Patashu wrote:
I think your lua script is stretching the page.
Hmm... That's odd. On the submission page, the lua script looks normal. However, on the forum page, the script messes up the page. I'm not really sure why. Hopefully, a staff member can edit this post and fix whatever the issue is.
Eltinho wrote:
It's been a great ride watching those Battletoads TAS! Great job, easily my favorite videos this year so far!
I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed my Battletoads TASes! It was a blast making them :)
Post subject: Finished Updating Submission Notes
Lobsterzelda
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Ok! I finished updating the submission text to explain my new timesaves. The timesave I found was all in level 12, and came about from reducing lag from the red blowing faces. To do this, I wrote a lua script which would simulate 100 tries of pressing select on random frames to try to minimize the amount of lag that the faces cause. For the purposes of this script, I set it to randomly press select on average once every 8 frames. The script would also report the frames of select presses that would cause the minimum number of lag frames to occur, so that I could make the necessary changes to my TAS to save this time. With that, I'm finally done TASing this category. I hope you all enjoy the final result!
Lobsterzelda
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Memory wrote:
I mean we can accept one to stars now and just make a more permanent decision later.
True.
Post subject: Sorry for the delay...
Lobsterzelda
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Sorry for creating a delay, but I actually have a slightly faster movie which beats the game in 10:44.xx seconds. I would like that movie to replace this one before publication occurs. I will upload the new movie momentarily... EDIT: The new movie can be found here: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/64935608370738984 I'll make a full write-up later explaining how I was able to save more time. I was originally planning to upload all of my new info sometime in the afternoon today, but this movie got accepted for publication so quickly that I sort of got caught with my pants around my ankles, so to speak... Also, on an unrelated note, I'm not sure if this affects how quickly this movie will be published, but you might want to hold off at least 1 more day before publishing this. The reason why is that I have another Battletoads TAS (for a different category) that I'm planning to submit some time later today, and I was hoping that people could discuss which Battletoads movie they prefer being in stars before either one is published (I already finished TASing the other category, I'm just preparing my submission text). However, if this movie is definitely going to be the one to make it to stars, then you can just go ahead and publish this movie whenever you want, since I have no further improvements for this TAS of this category.
Post subject: Final Update
Lobsterzelda
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I have one last update to this movie: I wanted level 12 to be less than 2 minutes in length instead of being exactly 2 minutes 0 seconds and 0 extra frames in length, so I went back and looked at the end of level 12. I was able to shave 3 frames off of level 12's ending by having slightly less lag frames and also landing on one of the springs slightly sooner (the springs have kind of odd collision, so it's sometimes possible to land on them a little sooner if you jump through a certain point in their side. Of course, I found this particular timesave by random chance, and wasn't actually even looking for it!). With that, I request that this new movie file supersede all other movie files I've previously uploaded: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/64861191778917061 The timesave table has been updated accordingly. I'm leaving the 3 encodes as is, however, since this timesave is so small that a viewer watching an encode wouldn't even be able to tell where it happened.
Post subject: Improvements Finished!
Lobsterzelda
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Hello everybody! I am writing with an update about my movie. I re-did level 12 of my TAS using the idea PJ had, and was able to save more than 2 seconds on level 12! I've adjusted the encodes, the timesave table, and the level 12 description of my TAS in my submission notes to adjust for this. Additionally, I've also included a more informative comparison video of my TAS and the old TAS of this category which EZGames69 made. I now request that my new movie file replace the original movie file that I submitted (the new movie file can be found here: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/64820568608567464)
nymx wrote:
I also see, were applicable, that the level of entertainment was increased. One place where I smiled, was our two heroes playing "Leap Frog" on Karnath's Lair. Well done. Certainly holds its "Moons" rating.
I agree with this statement for the most part. However, there is one caveat: this movie doesn't aim to hold the moons rating of its predecessor. Rather, it aims to hold the stars rating of its predecessor! :)
Lobsterzelda
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PJ wrote:
In the final level, I seem to remember that dash-jumping off the springs saves time. It has been awhile since I've done or watched any Battletoads speedrunning so I might be misremembering, but the spring climbs definitely looked slow here. Aside from that, it looks great! Very entertaining run.
I just tested this out, and it looks like you're right - the first long climbing section on the springs could have been 80 frames faster with dash jumps. This is probably fast enough to beat the next cycle of disappearing platforms, which means that this will likely translate into a real timesave! I'm going to go get to work incorporating this into level 12 to see how much time this can save. Nice catch! I'm glad you found this before the movie got published (I always prefer to find improvements before a movie gets published, rather than making a new movie afterwards that contains just the improvements alone).
Lobsterzelda
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EZGames69 wrote:
Could have asked me to make you another comparison encode that shows the frames saved. I can still make one for you if you want.
I would appreciate that! Actually, I do have one special request though: if you make a comparison encode, could you put my TAS on the left and the old TAS on the right (for consistency reasons, since I used that format for all the gifs in the submission text)? Thank you for the offer!
Post subject: New Category Idea
Lobsterzelda
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I have an idea for a category which would please people who are disappointed that the warpless runs skip major parts of levels 3 and 5 and people who want a 2 players TAS that doesn't gameover in level 11: I propose that a 2 Players Warpless Glitchless TAS of Battletoads be made. The rules for this category would be as follows: 1. No using the warp portals 2. No using the checkpoint glitches to skip parts of levels 3 and 5. 3. No holding Left+Right at the same time. 4. No void-jumping. 5. No clipping out of bounds. 6. No clipping through checkpoint walls. 7. No hitting the rat to end level 10 early 8. No graphics corruption in level 4 (technically, this doesn't even really save time to do, and it's debatable if this is even a glitch, but for purity sake, it may as well be banned). This TAS would be played on the PAL version of the game, in order to avoid gameovering in level 11. With the above rules in place, the levels of the TAS would look as follows: 1. Level 1 would be the same as the current 2 players warpless TAS. 2. Level 2 would also be more or less the same as the current 2 players warpless TAS. 3. Level 3 would play through the entire turbo tunnel section, instead of ending the level early. 4. Level 4 would have normal graphics. Additionally, checkpoint walls wouldn't be clipped through, the toads wouldn't clip through the floor towards the end of the level (which skips a hallway in the current 2P warpless TAS), and the final checkpoint would have to be activated w/o forcing the screen to scroll up with L+R. 5. Level 5 would play through the whole level instead of doing the checkpoint glitch. Additionally, tricks like killing Big Blarg in one hit could be seen, which doesn't appear in any of the currently published TASes. 6. Level 6 would be basically the same as the 2 player warpless TAS, including damage boosting and death boosting to skip various snakes. 7. Level 7 would be more or less the same as the 2 players warpless TAS. 8. Level 8 would have to climb up the first half of the level without using the L+R glitch to force the screen to scroll up. The second half of the level would be essentially the same as what the 2 player TASes do there. 9. Level 9 would look very different up to the first checkpoint, since the toads wouldn't be allowed to go out of bounds, which would allow for the first hallway that is normally skipped to be visible. Furthermore, the screen scrolling, checkpoint wall clipping, and out of bounds death trick would be skipped. This would also prevent several of the hallways from being skipped which the current TASes of the game all ignore. 10. Level 10 would have the biggest differences compared to all of the other TASes of the game. Because the rat-glitch couldn't be used to end the level, the 3 rat races and the boss fight against General Slaughter would have to be played through. This is one of the biggest selling points for this TAS, since even though there are 4 currently published TASes of Battletoads on TASVideos, no TAS beats General Slaughter or plays through the last 2 rat races (and with how fast these rat races are, this would be a time where the superplay of a TAS could really shine through). 11. Level 11 would not have a game over in it, which would also allow for the viewer to see what the boss fight would look like with 2 players. 12. Level 12 wouldn't hold Left+Right to force the screen to scroll up, and couldn't use Left+Right dash to skip the final stretch of platforming before the end of the level, but other than that, the level would be pretty similar to the 2P warpless TAS. 13. Level 13 (the dark queen boss fight) would be the same as in the 2P warpless TAS. I figure that if a mega man 2 zipless TAS could be a popular move on TASVideos, then there's no reason to think that a Battletoads 2 Players Waprless Glitchless movie couldn't be popular either. The main disadvantages of this movie are that it has a lot of gameplay overlap with the 2P warpless TAS, and it plays on PAL (which makes it take like 20% longer than it would otherwise due to the slower frame rate). Additionally, it's possible that viewers would rather the turbo tunnel and level 5 be skipped since these are mostly autoscrollers, in which case the TAS would lose a lot of its appeal. In the meantime, I'm just about ready to finish up with my 2 Players Warps TAS of Battletoads that I've been working on. If at least one judge or 3 TASers with movies published think that this is a worthwhile TAS to make, then I would consider taking this on as my next project when I finish my current TAS... Let me know what y'all think of this idea! I look forward to getting the community's feedback on this proposal.
Lobsterzelda
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Nach wrote:
Does it matter? It's a similar yet different game which hasn't been TAS'd yet.
If there's no version-exclusive glitches, then both games would essentially be identical TASes. The only difference would be that one would run at a faster speed and have a 10 second period of doing nothing, while the other would run at a much slower speed but would skip the 10 second period of doing nothing. In my opinion, they aren't different enough to merit publishing a TAS of each version side-by-side.
Lobsterzelda
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Nach wrote:
As the mechanics between versions are somewhat different, I don't see why we cannot have both published side by side. There's many differences throughout the game. I just pointed out one of them above.
Are there any version-exclusive glitches on the E version which save time over the USA version?
Lobsterzelda
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Nach wrote:
Just throwing this out there (which I think I did several pages back): The E version of Battletoads has different bugs. You don't need to die in stage 11 in 2P, as it works. It'd be interesting to see a TAS with that version.
Well, the one downside to this is that the E version is about a minute slower in real time. I'm not sure what people would prefer as far as TASes of the game is concerned: 1 which has a one-time 10 seconds slowdown due to faulty programming, or one with a minute slowdown spaced throughout due to the game running at a slower frame rate?
Post subject: Battletoads (NES) Bounty
Lobsterzelda
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Hello everyone, I am offering a $50 bounty to anybody who can find a way to spawn+activate the warp portal in level 3 of Battletoads (for the NES) using the checkpoint glitch. For more information about prior research I've done on this trick, see here: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=496733#496733 Anyways, I'm now going to lay out some ground rules for how to claim this bounty: 1. Use this movie file as a baseline for input (although input can be changed to setup the trick/get it to work): http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/64374095014736966 2. Must reach level 6 at least 5 seconds faster than is currently thought possible to do. 3. Must spawn+activate the warp portal using the checkpoint glitch (not just from hitting the portal at the end of the level). 4. Must leave the game in a state where future levels can be played through and beaten normally. If someone figures out how to do this, then they can send me a movie file of their movie up to the start of level 5, and I will send them the money. Also, while I'd prefer my movie file be used as a baseline, if a radically different setup is needed to set things up to make the trick work, then you are free to make your own movie file from scratch. Note: This bounty expires on December 31st 2020 at 11:59 PM.
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