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to be honest this specific instance is pretty much the only I'd find acceptable. If two TASers have worked on the same TASes together and their submissions do not mention one having contributed more than the other, it seems silly to me to even guess at name ordering being a conscious or even an unconscious decision. It's too likely to be reading something that's not even really there.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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There is a way to collect the same sword orb twice in the three headed dragon boss:
So when an orb normally falls it simply lands on the ground like here:
However on this stage in particular it will then go to the height of the water in the background:
If you run into it the frame it moves to the height of the water, it counts as collecting it twice.
It's also possible to cancel your fall momentum by pressing against certain stalactites from the side for more than a frame (maybe 2). This can be combine with mashing jump to fly through the air a little.
RNG is $4A 2 byte little endian hex. It gets set at the start of stages by the global timer:
Masterjun wrote:
global timer ($3F) is used, $4B is initialized by: timer XOR 0xFF; and $4A is initialized by that $4B OR 0x88
Otherwise RNG only advances when it is called.
You lose a sword point if you cause the sword to clang and $4A (2 byte little endian hex) is is either 0xX0 or 0xX8 (= ends on 0 or 8). In any case all clangs cause RNG*5+0x3711 to be the new RNG.
The bad guy in the background of the dev level with the mirror will move the fan in a random direction and for a random amount of time. It is determined by the following:
Masterjun wrote:
the game takes one byte of RNG ($4B) to determine the direction and how far the fan will go to the left/right from the middle (after the attack it returns to the middle)
if 00-7F it will go to the left, if 80-FF it will go to the right
afterwards it uses that same byte and ANDs it with 7 (getting the lower 3 bits), and uses it as an index to determine the duration of the left/right-movement (both at 4 pixels per frame), and the table is:
12 11 10 10 9 9 6 4
so a byte of 0x00 and the fan will go 12 frames to the left, 0x80 and it will go 12 frames to the right
Also I didn't realize that ALL gates were on a timer, I just figured the stage didn't let you skip the 3-headed dragon boss because the gate wasn't working. I managed to skip it otherwise.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, for my TAS having the fan stay closest to center was the fastest possible setup, not sure if it still would be if you got the chest item but idk.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Arc wrote:
Memory wrote:
I disliked the lack of any real communications to the site, from submissions leading up to the event. Supposedly a lot of the communications happened within the TASBot discord itself, leading to a feeling of separation between the TASBot community and TASVideos itself.
I agree with this point. I would like to propose that future Dream Team Contests be used as one source (but not the only source) of content for future GDQ events. The timeline would be:
Brainstorm an interesting GDQ TAS idea
Set contest deadline before GDQ submission deadline
Hold the Dream Team Contest for a few months
Submit winning entry to GDQ
(Optional) Optimize winning TAS before actual GDQ event
Debut winning TAS to the world at GDQ
Submit and publish to TASVideos after GDQ
This idea seems like it would be win-win for everyone because (1) it generates TAS content specifically with GDQ in mind, (2) the TAS is completed before the GDQ submission deadline, (3) it gives everyone in the community a fair chance to have a TAS they made shown at a GDQ (if they win the contest), and (4) the competition ensures a TAS of high quality.
While I am not against this idea, it does ultimately depend on if console verification is required. If so, games for the contest would be limited to whatever platforms are able to be console verified, which would be unfortunate. I would like some clarification on whether or not console verification is a strict requirement.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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I think Aran;Jaegar's point is that while it may appear on the surface that Doomsday worked on the TAS alone, his work was largely built off of others, in contrast to some other nominees to this thread. I don't see what it has to do with Doomsday's post at all, but I believe that's what Aran is trying to say.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Personally I think this year the field is fairly weak for SNES TASer of 2019 so any choice is about as valid as any other. It's all a matter of opinion after all.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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My biggest problems with this event honestly lie with how things were submitted rather than the actual execution. The actual execution seemed ok for the most part though a fair amount of "I bet you can't do this RTA" was fairly unnecessary.
I disliked the lack of any real communications to the site, from submissions leading up to the event. Supposedly a lot of the communications happened within the TASBot discord itself, leading to a feeling of separation between the TASBot community and TASVideos itself.
I am really unsure why NES Lizard was submitted at all really. I wasn't at all surprised to see it rejected from the event. I found it borderline Vault tier when I initially judged the TAS, there's really not much making it distinct from RTA and the game isn't that well known either.
Honestly, I WOULD lean towards TASes where the author will be attending the event. It would result in more in depth and more genuine commentary imo. While currently there are not too many TASers that attend these events, I see no reason that has to be the case necessarily. Notably Malleo is a frequent attendee and a lot of his work could be viable for these events assuming there is no requirement for console verification. There are no doubt other TASers that could attend (in fact I attended this AGDQ to perform commentary for Bonk's Adventure) and they could be reached out to as well.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Personman wrote:
but I just want to point out that optimizing the viewing experience is a second-order concern. In the absence of speed/entertainment tradeoffs, the purpose of a TAS is to finish the game as quickly as possible, and it's what that means that we should be arguing about here.
Since when has this been the purpose of a TAS?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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I don't buy that faster dialogue is even really an entertainment boost. Things like cutscene-free encodes aren't that uncommon around here, so faster dialogue is like a nothing in my view.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Mothrayas wrote:
"It's faster than unassisted play" is not a sufficient explanation.
There you go:
I still remember the first time I've watched a TAS that uses the Wall Surfing technique. At that time I was still willing to help nahoc with the making of his first TAS. As one of the first things to do, I suggested him to look for existing TASes on YouTube... In a matter of seconds, I got him giving an "oh my god" follow by the video url of Matt Schepcar's unfinished TAS. I was completely clueless of what he was about, until I opened the video and I instantly understood, as my reaction was the same. It was so impressive that at first I thought that some kind of cheats were used, also because there was no mention about TASing in that video. With some Googling, we both found Matt Schepcar's blog, where there was a post about how to write a bot... for TASing purposes. Still unbelieving, I've taken the laziest route possible: I've tried replicating the TAS of that first level by visually analyzing the video frame-by-frame. And I succeeded. But there was no point in copying without understanding what was going on... so I've tried to replicate the Wall Surfing trick from scratch. And I failed. All I could do was to note that the trick couldn't be executed without a bot. Seeing there was some serious work to do in order to achieve actual results, I gave up with this game and left the job to nahoc and E-Sh4rk. It has not been hard for them to figure how to make the appropriate bot, as they're both programmers. The only job left was to write a Lua script and explain them the Movie Rules thoroughly.
On their own, nahoc and E-Sh4rk, did great with the rest. Not only they mastered botting of this game, but they even managed to beat Matt Schepcar's times! But that's not all. They also introduced the Out of Bounds techs, that allow to take advantage of something that we could describe as parallel universes...
This bit is irrelevant to the goal of the award.
The character moves so fast that you can barely follow what's going on...
This bit is relevant to the goal of the award.
actually, the first time anyone witnesses it, has a hard time just at realizing that the level has been already beaten. Everything happens so fast that the voice saying "start!" and "goal!" fills more time than actual gameplay itself. It's also nice to hear the continuous noises of the walls getting hit, as anomalous and erratic sounds are often a characteristic of advanced TASing. And it gets better. Later levels will end before the goal zone could even get in sight, thanks to sophisticated OoB trickery. It's not just faster than RTA, it's MUCH faster. To the point that even people used to watch TASes could not expect it. Other TASes that achieve similar results exist, but I didn't seem them appearing during this year. For these reasons, I deem [3933] GBA Kuru Kuru Kururin by mohoc & E-Sh4rk in 06:11.59 to be a movie applicable for this nomination.
This is irrelevant to the goal of the award.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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The8bitbeast
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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CoolHandMike
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
While I love this movie, I do feel that the game is a bit more obscure than its NES brethren and those games would better serve as recommended for newcomers than Mega Man & Bass.
EDIT: Mega Man X could also be acceptable however.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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I feel DoS has a really slow start (to the point where I never actually finished watching it).
I do really like PoR All Bosses but my one question is whether or not we need a DS Castlevania in Stars in addition to the ones we already have for other platforms.
If you're counting classic castlevanias in addition to "Igavania's" as they're called, we currently have 4. If you're counting only Igavania's, we have 2, but that is 2 out of 3 systems they were even released for.
Over representation of franchises is a potential issue with the star list and I'm not sure this pick helps with that.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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In this TAS I see mastery over the mechanics of the game to allow for things that look absolutely impossible.
Yes vote.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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I don't really have a preference on ingame time vs real time for this game. Given how you need to slow down for points, you can't aim for the truly lowest ingame time on each track, making it less appealing to me.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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I don't think it is appropriate to request such ultimatums.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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You do not get to decide what is and isn't evidence.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
However on this stage in particular it will then go to the height of the water in the background:
If you run into it the frame it moves to the height of the water, it counts as collecting it twice.
It's also possible to cancel your fall momentum by pressing against certain stalactites from the side for more than a frame (maybe 2). This can be combine with mashing jump to fly through the air a little.
RNG is $4A 2 byte little endian hex. It gets set at the start of stages by the global timer:
