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Maybe I've just watched a lot of really questionable moons lately so my standards are a bit weird.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Memory wrote:
EDIT: To clarify if I had to vote on a scale of 1 to 10 I'd give it around a 6.5, but given my expectations going into the movie, I ended up liking it more than I expected.
I see what you mean, I also happened sometimes to apprecciate a movie more because of my personal tastes rather than objective reasons.
By the way, 6.5 is still not enough to warrant Moons tier in my opinion, especially since the hard mode didn't add anything except more HP to the bosses, which only resulted in more repetitiveness.
Actually I thought of more reasons I liked the movie. I was sort of rushed at the time of my first post but... the game features multiple movement options with the bounce and the airswim and the TAS takes advantage of all of them to good effect. The TAS never feels slow, and actually has rather slick movement. The game also has variation in the water stage where you want to avoid jumping and in later stages you need to use the airswim to make certain platforms. I guess I'd give it actually much closer to a 7, if not a 7.
The bosses weren't long enough to feel particularly repetitive to me to begin with aside from the one cloud boss.
EDIT: Also forgot that while enemies typically didn't seem like much of obstacles, the terrain definitely seemed it could be and the TAS handled that well.
EDIT 2:
I'm pretty confident that the submitted movie is Vault material...
Don't think I agree on this.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
This movie looks very plain to me.
Memory wrote:
I honestly really liked this TAS.
Why?
The game is indeed relatively simple but it's short and there's obvious techniques used to maintain speed and the like.
EDIT: To clarify if I had to vote on a scale of 1 to 10 I'd give it around a 6.5, but given my expectations going into the movie, I ended up liking it more than I expected.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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I honestly really liked this TAS. I don't think a switch to Easy difficulty is needed, most the bosses are fairly short even on Hard so they don't wear out their welcome to me. Only exception is that one cloud boss, which I feel you could have had some more opportunities for entertainment but ah well.
Did you record using OBS because you wanted to have input displayed? Otherwise, doing a proper temporary encode using the built in record avi/wav function isn't that difficult if you follow the steps here: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16971 and with the folder linked here: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=450534#450534
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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arkiandruski wrote:
Damn, my skimming skills have failed me..
So, if fastest completion involves memory corruption, does that mean a run without corruption would have to qualify for Moons?
Sure does.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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arkiandruski wrote:
I know that not everyone will agree, but I support the disallowing of memory corruption for vault purposes.
Note that it's specifically for FULL completion and not fastest.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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So I did a little bit of digging and found that there is a single address that says what path you are on: 030015E7. It can either be 0 or 1 depending on which path you are on. Now the path swapper used for this oob is about where Amy is sitting here:
Above her at the level of the bridge is another path swapper that will prevent the oob. Now normally if you hammer off the spring you just ignore the first path swapper altogether, but apparently sometimes you can trigger it and yet avoid triggering the one at the bridge. I'm not sure why yet, but that's how the oob works.
In other news here is another oob on the same level found by Omla and with a route done by kirbymastah:
Link to video
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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feos wrote:
Radiant wrote:
So yes vote, and I'm in favor of obsolescence (although you could make a case for re-tagging the older movie as "100%").
That's a very good point. Even if the current movie can't be considered full completion due to some probable minor incompatibility (worst case scenario), it can still theoretically be changed to be true full completion, hunting down another entry in the 500 list (the right way).
I don't see anything that would qualify for full completion in this game. Seems to me that fastest completion and full completion are identical.
Voted meh on this TAS and honestly, the current TAS isn't exactly much better. It was kind of cool at first but overstayed its welcome. I might be missing something though and if I am... you should rate the TAS (and others you like/don't like). And there is always the possibility that even if this obsoletes the currently published TAS due to it having Vault ratings, that a new TAS without the glitch will be seen as more entertaining and get back out of Vault.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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OGwold wrote:
My question is: Is there something I'm doing wrong, or is this game not compatible with Hourglass? And if it's the latter, is there another program I can use to get a TAS going?
It's very likely to be not compatible with hourglass. If the game can run on linux, you can use a tool called libTAS. Otherwise you might have to make your own tool.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Patashu wrote:
1)
Sure, TASes like Brain Age are not particularly deep, because they basically repeat the same glitch over and over . But TASes that aren't deep but are flashy can be an onramp for TASing interest. Look at how popular the earlier TASBot blocks have been, even though they featured a lot of ACE/playaround TASes, where you do one glitch and then do whatever you want after that. Personally, the International Superstar Soccer Deluxe TAS, despite not solving some convoluted optimization problem related to score or speed, has been one that I've watched and laughed super hard at several times since I found it, have shown it to other people for similar reactions, and has an incredibly high view count on nicovideo (in the millions IIRC - on youtube it's not bad either, 232k). Once you're more familiar with TASing and your tastes have matured, you might not appreciate it as much as something finely optimized and incredibly detailed, like say Dawn of Sorrow "all souls" or YI 100% (the two highest rated TASes on the site ATM), but these TASes still serve an important and useful purpose, despite being 'non-competitive'. Not every TAS has to be all things to all people, and indeed it can't be.
I used to think myself that these TASes weren't all that deep but I later came to an understanding that they are far more deep than they appear on the surface. From my personal experience, having your TAS remain entertaining when there are no opportunities for speed like waiting periods and autoscrollers is in fact quite difficult.
I think this idea that as we become more familiar with TASing that playarounds and the like are somehow less appealing and less deep is entirely backwards. In fact, what I believe actually happens is that we grow more accustomed to speedruns, we close our minds off to the appeal and the depth of playarounds.
I believe that there is a great amount of strategy and efficiency to be had in playaround TASes as well. Let's take Brain Age for example. On the surface, it appears to just be abusing the same glitch over and over to get the game to accept nonstandard answers. But is that really all it's doing? No. If that was the case, the TAS would just input squiggles and it would be the same effect. Instead it uses the opportunity to draw high quality art of Nintendo characters and the like. There can be no room for sloppiness: the lines must be drawn well, and the art must be drawn in an efficient manner. If either one of these things were not true, than the movie would be able to be obsoleted by another that does either of those things better. As it is, the movie would only be obsoleted by another that does something more incredible and entertaining.
Is there no "depth" to making jokes? To telling stories? To making art? Of course there is. However with TASes, some express that there is no depth to any of the above and I find that absurd.
I realize that this is entirely off-topic, but this is a common sentiment I've seen and one I would like to address.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Competition is not the center of TASing, nor should it ever be tbh. As somebody relatively new to the site who got into it through the RTA community, I still get plenty of enjoyment out of playarounds and the like. Creative thinking is what draws me to the hobby above all else.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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p4wn3r wrote:
In any case, at that time all judges agreed that using smartphones was not appropriate and there were no further issues. Coming up with lame excuses and ask repeatedly irrelevant questions to discredit the complainer does not help your case and just gives the impression that you don't want to be accountable for what you are doing. It saddens me that you, as a judge, do not recognize the importance of procedures.
It would be one thing if multiple people had a problem with it. I'm not a judge and I don't have a problem with people running things this way. I think you're the one with the lame excuses and not the judges, sorry.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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That would be true if websites had to be democracies, which they don't.
This was clearly a case that needed extra clarification in vault rules. People discussed these rules and agreed to it. Some of the discussion took place in this thread. Other discussion took place on IRC. Moth didn't go out of his way to change the rules to make it so this submission can be accepted.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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For the most part the hack wasn't really interesting. Just felt like a really condensed version of the original game with a bunch of things shortened. Some of those are nice like transitions and item pickups but the bosses had their health drastically lowered for what felt like an attempt to arbitrarily appeal to speedrunners. Additionally, while changing the music can be cool, it was just slightly different pitches of existing Super Metroid songs and the ending result was questionable.
Normally this would just be a meh. But then there was the "What is Love" at the end of it. Voting "No".
EDIT: Would greatly prefer a TAS of any of the stronger Super Metroid hacks which I know are out there.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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p4wn3r wrote:
Nobody in this thread was aware that this thread could introduce rule changes, so there was no request for an comment on this specific matter. Changing the rules affects other decisions, and you even refused to comment on the applicability to other games when requested.
So, let me get this straight. This thread is appropriate for gathering feedback prior to rule changes, but is not appropriate for requesting clarification on what the rule change does to other games?
Uh... it's always been the case that rule clarifications can be discussed on workbench threads. There's been plenty cases recently where this has happened, like Super Mario 4 and Math Blaster.
The OOT question gave no details and was not really worded in a way that would be interpreted to a wider variety of games. It was just "would these random RTA rules fit".
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
"All kills"? I think only aiming to kill enemies that spawn as you progress through the game is implied, it doesn't make sense to keep respawning the same enemy for eternity in order to kill literally everything possible. Or maybe "maximum kills", since it's impossible to kill literally everything? And it's clearly not full completion and not vaultable.
I'd lean towards the latter I think. Feel that "maximum kills without respawning" enemies sounds better than "all kills without respawning enemies". Not that you would use "without respawning enemies" in the branch name itself, but I'd personally sooner associate "maximum kills" with "oh there might be some other restriction in play" than "all kills".
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
I'm accepting this, since it's a lot tighter than your any% submission and the audience liked it a lot, though I still disagree with the "100%" category. Since enemies can be respawned by moving far enough back and coming forward again, it doesn't exactly "kill every enemy", though it does kill every unique enemy due to the fact that spawns are preset.
Though, with no one else bothering to put forth serious category names, let alone any at all, I'm just going to leave the name as "100%". It can still be changed at any time if someone happens to actually come up with something legitimate.
EDIT: also think this got lost in all the SMW discussion:
Memory wrote:
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Mothrayas wrote:
I think for these purposes it's more relevant to consider the nature of the game release (this being a bootleg with cartridge releases in a number of countries), than of what the code makeup inside happens to be like.
Now while I don't disagree with this, for devil's advocate purposes, what if I were to take what the site would currently consider a hack and release it in a cartridge format? Would it then be eligible for vault?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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feos wrote:
SmashManiac wrote:
the rules for Vault clearly states that hacks are not eligible
Citation needed.
Vault rules wrote:
*Hacks (defined as being modifications of an existing eligible game) are not eligible for this category. We demand hacks with entertainment value, therefore they are judged by the Moon tier requirements.
Note that the next line is
*Unlicensed and homebrew games are eligible but may be judged on a game-by-game basis based on their notability.
So it depends on which you classify this as I guess.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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DrJones wrote:
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Take a look at 4:18... crab queen has a shorter throne than crab king... that's sexist :/
Only if she did the same work than the King to deserve it.
...Why is there discussion about what is and isn't sexist about crab royalty in a gameboy game?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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If it uses GCN controller it's doable. If it's using wiimote it's basically impossible.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Habreno wrote:
From what I read before, star powerup wasn't banned before, but would be under "no powerups"?
No (permanent) powerups. Dunno if permanent should be in the branch label or not. I think it would be fine without and just clarify in the description.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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BrunoVisnadi wrote:
I don't think there is a good label that communicates Mario is always small, Yoshi is forbidden, switch palaces are forbidden and goal is maximum exits. It's already pretty obvious by the length of the TAS that it's not a sort of small only any%. And since every goal is listed in the movie description, it might be better to leave the branch name as it is.
I don't agree with that. I know personally I got a little confused looking at the name of this TAS and then at the length. I read the description and was less confused but it's still not an ideal scenario.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Nach wrote:
feos wrote:
Technically, the only really sensible branch would be namely "Max completion". Because it is really a run aiming for max completion for teh win.
Something along these lines is probably the least arbitrary we're going to get it.
We add a comment in the movie description that it's not actually maximum possible completion, just maximum currently submitted to TASVideos. We obsolete the moment someone submits a decent run with higher completion.
Would a run with less completion but also less arbitrary (and less boring) also obsolete this TAS?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Above her at the level of the bridge is another path swapper that will prevent the oob. Now normally if you hammer off the spring you just ignore the first path swapper altogether, but apparently sometimes you can trigger it and yet avoid triggering the one at the bridge. I'm not sure why yet, but that's how the oob works.
In other news here is another oob on the same level found by Omla and with a route done by kirbymastah:
Link to video