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Lap 2 progress so far:
Link to video
This is decent but I haven't experimented much with boost placement yet.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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jlun2 wrote:
What happens when you try to leave the castle? Does it get you stuck inside the closed door, or will it magically open? Still, very nice trick! I hope more uses are found for it.
The door itself has no collision, but you can clip back through the gate the same way you clipped in.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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FatRatKnight wrote:
40k rerecords on this one track. There's 19 others. And if you want to go there, the Champion Circuit as well. Are we looking forward to 800k rerecords? I am impressed with the effort going into this.
I'm not even sure I'm done with that track, I want to revisit the start at some point now that I'm more experienced.
Frequently getting bumps off the slower machines, and sometimes major ones at that, along the way? Are you sure you need those floating mines?
Hey the one lap that broke sub '20"XX was the the only lap that got mines! Seriously though mines are basically guaranteed 640km/h whereas CPUs may vary a fair bit. In some cases having a CPU bump instead of a mine boost isn't a big deal but they work differently. This track is kind of annoying in that some sections of track are skipped and others are just really wide and cpus and mines could spawn way out of your way.
Also here's my first run of the first lap of the next track:
Link to video
I plan on improving it further but it's already a decent bit ahead of the corresponding human best opener.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Lap 3 20"36
Link to video
Lap 4 19"71
Link to video
Just got started on lap 4, that is my first finished run. As you can see I no longer get 20"36 on lap 3 but get a good amount more speed entering lap 4. I wasn't expecting to get this low of a time so quickly.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Link to video
Getting that bump after the dirt patch is very important so I'm basically unable to change the beginning much anymore. I'll probably move on to lap 3 soon.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Progress on lap 2:
bk2Link to video
Not done working on it yet, but I've beaten the training mode record's lap 2 by a fair margin AND I got an insane +56km/h bump towards the end off a yellow car.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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I sure hope that TASVideos accepts save anchored movies otherwise my Maximum Velocity Grand Prix Master TAS is screwed.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Why did you choose to play only the one round (five tracks), and not the entire championship?
An entire championship consists of 30 tracks. This would mean, the TAS would be 30 to 40 minutes long. That's very long, I think, for a racing game. It would also be a ridiculous amount of work, TASing 30 tracks. After each round, you get to see an ending movie. The points are reset. A round is perfectly comparable with a "cup" at Super Mario Kart. However, in this game, there are only five themes: City, Islands, Sewerage, Circuit and Fortress. Each of the 6 rounds features the exact same 5 themes.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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FatRatKnight wrote:
I suppose the disadvantage with L+R for Side Attack is that you need steering to initiate Side Attack. Between left or right, the game prioritizes right. This means you can press left+right to avoid steering that frame and get a side attack to the right. Right side rails have a clear optimal pattern I can do. Left side rails, unfortunately, has only one possible control for the frame to go left, as even if you held right for a few frames before L+R, it will still trigger as a right Side Attack.
I have discovered that this is actually not the case. If you hold right AND r prior to pressing Left + Right and l+r you will do a left side attack. You can hold right for multiple frames or only one frame and multiple frames of left + right doesn't matter. You just need to have initially started holding right and r on the same frame otherwise you don't side attack at all.
The following are sets of inputs that all generate left side-attacks
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Legal notice: This site does not distribute games.
You either rip the rom yourself or use google.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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I definitely do believe there are either fixed locations or at least patterns to the spawns. In a previous post I mentioned that a CPU would spawn in one of two different spots depending on what frame it spawned in. It alternated between those two spots after every frame of delay before the spawn.
EDIT: Check out frame 2756 of my first lap. CPU spawn overlapping occurred there too. My bump probably wouldn't have worked as well without it.
From talking with someone on the FZC discord, I think SNES and the GBA games share some code, apparently SNES has the same floating glitch that this game does and a bunch of other mechanics are surprisingly similar. They had to say the following about CPUs:
Catador - Today at 12:09 PM
If it's anything like the SNES version, the CPU cars will only change when they're in front of you (and offscreen) at least 2 ranks and they advance a lap segment OR when a CPU is 2 or more ranks behind you (and offscreen) and you advance a lap segment(edited)
MemoryTAS - Today at 12:10 PM
What do you mean change?
Which CPU car?
Catador - Today at 12:10 PM
One despawns for another one to spawn
MemoryTAS - Today at 12:11 PM
How many total can spawn in F-Zero SNES
At a time
Catador - Today at 12:12 PM
The SNES can keep track of 6 cars at a time(including player), but the sixth car is only used for the AI car that plays as you when finishing a race
So technically, 5 cars at a time
MemoryTAS - Today at 12:13 PM
Are ranks like first etc?
Catador - Today at 12:15 PM
Yes, there are two "stacks", one for unloaded cars in front of the player and another for cars unloaded behind the player
MemoryTAS - Today at 12:15 PM
I see
How consistent are the changes?
Catador - Today at 12:16 PM
What do you mean
MemoryTAS - Today at 12:16 PM
Say golden fox is 2 ranks behind you and offscreen when you advance a lap segment
On this one frame it moves back a rank
If you were to advance the lap segment on a different frame would it also move back a rank
Assuming that's what you mean
Catador - Today at 12:18 PM
I'm not really sure what would happen
MemoryTAS - Today at 12:18 PM
I see
Catador - Today at 12:19 PM
I still have to look if the cars change when they advance a lap segment while (2?) or more ranks behind
Or if its just the player advancing
I'd guess it's only the player(edited)
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Damn just as I was starting to get some momentum on TAS progress too. Might want to put progress on hold until CPU spawns get figured out.
Here's my best lap 1 of P1 btw if you want to take a quick look at it to see if I missed anything obvious: User movie #40691377891651341
EDIT: If I had to take a guess though I'd bet it's at least partially based on hitting certain positions and when you do so from my limited testing so far.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Got a 23"46 by tweaking the end a fair amount. I'll investigate the movement immediately after the last bump a fair bit and then I'll move on.
FatRatKnight wrote:
I'm starting to wonder if I should pioneer the rest of the tracks. Basically produce some mid-level TAS of each track as a baseline. If the game is as sync stable as I make it out to be, then it should all be fine once we copy the inputs together.
I have a bunch of unknown numbers I've extracted for each machine, if you feel like making some guesses. Not sure where else to put them, so I chose here.
If you want to, then sure go ahead!
Not sure which they could mean yet and honestly I'm still not sure if I'll bother trying to figure them out.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, this game's ingame timer seems to record subframe differences in times, and it does so fairly accurately. Despite triggering the lap time popup on the same frame, I got two different times recorded through some slight differences in speed. This means that the ingame timer is very much ideal to be optimizing for since it is actually more precise than frame count!
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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From when I played the game I noticed no such improvements by buying the better drill bits either.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Got a 594km/h or so bump in the conveyor belt section with a new strategy and got a 23"55:
bk2Link to video
I plan to continue to mess around for a little bit longer but I'm happy to have found a decent improvement.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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I've been testing out getting a second bump that gets you to about 600km/h in the segment with the conveyor belts but so far it doesn't seem worth the setup. I'll mess around for a bit longer but it doesn't seem to look good so far.
EDIT: This 23"63 is basically the best I got with mostly the same strategies so far. I'll continue to mess around with the conveyor section, maybe I need to take a far more different approach.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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After some initial testing, it might be better to focus on ships with great Spd2 stats rather than Spd3 stats. If you decide to do side attack cancel chains at the start of the track, you're going to be already losing speed after the rocket start so you're probably going to be mostly in Spd2 rather than Spd3. If that is the case, one of the best candidates would probably be Sonic Phantom. Nothing else particularly stands out to me.
EDIT: I might also just be losing more speed than I should by doing it less than optimally.
EDIT2: I'll probably return to MV for a while and tackle this again later.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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The fish boss made me very happy yes vote.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Mittenz wrote:
Memory wrote:
TASVideoAgent wrote:
Thanks to PekopanTAS, turtle, and Memory for having documented a large number of the skips and glitches used in this TAS.
Wait since when did I find something useful in this game?
You documented the swimming glitch which was useful for entertainment purposes :)
If you managed to do the one glitch I found without softlocking upon screen transitions I will love you forever.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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TASVideoAgent wrote:
Thanks to PekopanTAS, turtle, and Memory for having documented a large number of the skips and glitches used in this TAS.
Wait since when did I find something useful in this game?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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When I was looking into black bull's turning tolerance I took another look at the list because the difference between facing and momentum was constantly shrinking and saw that. It can basically only drift on ice and that's also the only place where blast turns would come into play probably.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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FatRatKnight wrote:
Well, I think I found the turning tolerance stat (edited script post). Let me know how well you agree with the guess. We still have a few unknowns in that list to work through.
I've taken a look at the jump stat, and I think the internal value is the best one to use. It appears to be the initial upward velocity you get from jump plates, which is probably the best thing to be using.
I do like the table. Think I should get some stats transferred into the Game Resources?
That definitely appears to be the turning tolerance stat, nice find! Looks like black bull's was slightly off in my table but it was kind of hard to tell anyways.
Sure go ahead when it comes to putting stats in Game Resources.
EDIT: Added all remaining turning allowances and fixed black bull's.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
