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Memory
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Sector 4? I think you typo'd.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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Weegeechan wrote:
Wow, seeing all these cool OoB tricks makes me wonder why this game wasn't TASed sooner! :P
It actually was TASed before but never posted here. JP TASer LuckyStarKid did a TAS that you can find on youtube, but I believe he didn't know about R-Button Boosting which means his movement was much slower than mine, plus a lot of his strats are heavily outdated. I still was able to take strategies here and there from him, however. Despite having been TASed before, this is the first time that a TASer has worked closely with the RTA community to break this game as much as possible. This allows for TAS to look very different from RTA, something that I'm very happy about. I imagine a lot of the reason Hunters did not receive as much attention before was due to the game's reputation for being not very Metroid-y. I probably wouldn't have looked into it myself if it wasn't for the revival of the RTA community for the game a couple years ago. I'm not the biggest fan of the game, but I thought the run was cool. I also knew that the game had received much less attention from TASers than pretty much every other Metroid that was easily emulated. Those two things combined with curiosity as to how touch boosting worked was what lead me to messing with the game.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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Thanks to xy2_ who pointed me in the direction of the quick easy encoding guide, my videos should look better now. You aren't here to read about that though. I have found a new skip that I thought could maybe be possible for a while. The first bit was taken from rough draft TAS, but basically once I go back inbounds, everything from that point on is new: Link to video
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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Apparently with Hard Mode you also gain back less energy and missiles from X if m2k2 is correct. I don't know how much of a difference that would even make though. Zero Mission would be a good choice to do on hard mode from my understanding, not so much Fusion.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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I'd thought I'd never be able to say this, but I can't wait for the next Fusion sequence break to be found. This stuff is great.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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Wow that's certainly a skip.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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Since completing the rough draft, I've found a good number of new boost clips that save a decent chunk of time. Link to video One of two clips that could be used to skip sylux but got obsoleted by doing a clip from a different room or from the lower floor and bomb jumping up from the door. Link to video Used to escape with the artifact. Link to video OOB in the landing site that could be used to get the sylux artifact through bomb jumping from oob, thus allowing you skip the green barrier and delay grabbing battlehammer. Link to video Allows you to skip the long psychobit fight in data shrine 01.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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Completed rough draft: Link to video I found an additional skip after the making of this.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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JMC47 wrote:
Yeah this is just a case of hopefully making it more accurate for next time someone wants to TAS the game, or do another category.
Or maybe for TASing echoes. I remember hearing that the loads were still too fast to do some tricks in that game.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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I finished the rough draft TAS and plan on having it streamed on rta runner Mr Shasta's twitch channel with commentary this saturday after which point I will make the video public. After that I'll do some more research before starting the final draft.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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That isn't too surprising if the RNG behaves similarly to that of partners in time.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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What you have so far seems fine but there isn't exactly much interesting stuff yet. I would look into intentionally inducing Bowser's fury on the sea pipe statue fight. Bowser enters fury on a random hit after taking a certain number of hits. Two of the spinning in Bowser's belly attacks should do enough hits to get Bowser into fury. I don't know if Magic Mirror would be worth it. By the time you're able to get it, the only bosses left are in Peach's Castle. Maybe you could get it in time for Bowser's Memories fights as well, but idk. Falling Star is really good too, and is able to destroy the Dark Star Core in two turns with D-Star Wear (randomly dropped from the Dark Star).
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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Google doc isn't public.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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So this game can be divided up into big rooms and hallways. Sometimes there are doors between parts of big rooms, but they're still considered the same room on the map and when they're loaded. However, parts of rooms are not always visible. There is only ever one section at a time where the graphics are totally present. I will call this the active section. Aside from being unable to scan certain things, and something I will discuss later, inactive sections behave as normal, with the exception that they're invisible When you look into an inactive section from an active section you will see the room textures and enemies and stuff, but this is actually only from certain angles. If you were from a different angle (out of bounds) the inactive section will actually appear as invisible. The way to make various sections active is to pass through invisible triggers from the active section to the inactive section. It's really easy when you're out of bounds to accidentally miss a trigger or pass back through it causing the wrong section to be active. This needs to be done sequentially, you can't go between two inactive sections and make one active. A hallway's collision is not present until you hit the door and get close to it. This happens basically instantly and the game will unload the collision of the previous hallway you went through. If you shoot the door at the end of the hallway and get close to it, the next room will start loading. If the hallway is not the active section, the game will proceed to crash. This is why it's important to keep track of which sections are active, you need to be in the active section when switching between rooms. Now when the new big room loads the previous big room unloads. Now you might think that the new big room is adjacent to the other big room. That is actually not the case. When the room loads, the new big room actually gets placed where the previous room used to be. The hallway is then moved by a predetermined offset to the corresponding location and samus and any shots or bombs along with it thus creating the illusion that you haven't actually moved. I found this out due to my coordinates changing all of a sudden during loads. However this was mostly just a theory... Until this happened: I had paused after a bomb had exploded to load a room faster, but when I had unpaused, the bomb explosion graphical effect was way over there. What happened was that the graphical effect of the bomb exploding maintained its old coordinates after I had paused. Therefore when I unpaused, the bomb explosion was beyond the door. Sadly, I cannot seem to manipulate the bomb's actual position with this, nor any shots. Just the graphical effect of the explosion. This just confirms my theory however. There might be some way to take advantage of this, but I don't know how at this point.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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As far as I know they're identical in terms of stats.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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ais523 wrote:
This game seems to respond pretty well to sequence breaks! That's typically an encouraging sign for the making of a TAS.
The game has had a somewhat active speedrunning community and they found a good number of breaks over the years so it was well known that the game handles sequence breaks very well. I'm working closely with them to make sure the TAS is of proper quality. They've already suggested a number of things I can improve on my rough draft that I will incorporate into my final draft. A runner/glitch hunter named Dann has been especially helpful, he discovered a good number of tricks in the last two years that were used in real time runs. He has been a great source of ideas for TAS as well and has been generally helpful all around. Once I wanted a new clip so I could do a cool TAS trick that is coming up later and he found one in like 15 minutes, he's great.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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Last WIP I'm uploading of the rough draft: Link to video Completes the Celestial Archives 1 escape (while simultaneously making progress in Celestial Archives 2)
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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Rough Draft WIP 4: Link to video Completes up through the first boss.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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WIP 2 (EDIT) 3 of rough draft: Link to video
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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So I'm going to do a rough draft TAS first and then do a second full TAS that is better optimized. I feel that doing this will help me get a better picture of how things fit together. Rough draft TAS WIP1: Link to video I will spend a bit more time better optimizing sections and smoothing out some camera turns on the second TAS. About the pauses: LuckyStarKid (JP TASer) tweeted out that rooms load faster when paused and I confirmed this. This saves time basically every time the game needs to load something. The game runs at 30FPS and there are two methods of boosting: one is controlled by the r-button, and it takes 15 frames to fully charge. It's usually worth the full 15 frames. The other is controlled by the touch screen. With TAS I can do these boosts in two frames, however you cannot perform another until the game detects you have "slowed down" or something. Therefore I cannot just repeatedly spam them to go fast, and I need to use r-boosts too. I'll probably post WIPs through the end of the first Celestial Archives visit. After that I'll work on the rough draft and post it all at once when it's done.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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Generally you would only want to delay an infinite combo attack like copy flowers and such if you were going for a defense down with ice flowers or if you wanted to hit multiple targets with mix flower. The thing about copy flowers, pocket chomps, trampolines and red shells is that they start out slow but speed up the longer you keep up the chain. At their fastest, they completely outpace any other methods of doing damage.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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So it seems when you go really really far out of bounds you hit triggers: Link to video Link to video idk if I could take advantage of this, they all seem really far.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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TheMG2 wrote:
This saves at least a minute.
Did I say a minute? I should have said 4 minutes. The fact that you can make a lot of progress towards CA2 during the CA1 escape, completely avoiding the typical CA1 escape route helps a lot.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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So this is far from the most optimal way of doing this but I have volt driver early: Link to video Thanks to parax for finding the original oob method, amhite for pointing out the missile push worked, and Dann for the setup for the missile push. Everything once I got out of bounds was my work. So what happens once I get out of bounds is that I grab volt driver from below and land kind of on a ledge. If you have seen my previous balancing videos you know the deal. I made sure to regain my jump before going over to this big chunk of ground beside a ramp leading up to a door. From there I can safely bomb jump back to the outer ring. This is far from the most optimal way of doing this, but I'm glad that I have shown that you can do it at all. This saves at least a minute.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Memory
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There are a number of out of bounds tricks in console Metroid Prime Hunters runs, but no sort of inter-room out of bounds travel. This will not be the case in TAS: Link to video The clip at the beginning was known by console runners for a while now but I wasn't quite expecting to get it how I did since I wasn't using frame advance for that. Room collision in hunters is largely one sided, so it's easy to reenter the boundaries of the room. However because there is very little ledge in the hallway in between the two bigger rooms, this means you need to carefully balance on the outside of the room to do this, making it very much tas only. I did not spend any time optimizing this, this is mostly a proof of concept of what a TAS could do in this game.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero