I've tried messing around with that collywobble jump and it is possible to do it in the middle of the yellow grass where there the seam is, you'll recognise it by the change in the textures but its bl**dy hard to do. I tried doing it earlier but the fence seems to push banjo back off the cliff. If it was done corectly it might save anywhere between 2-5 secs.
When I looked back at my movie I realised that I didn't fast forward the bottles conversation which costed me roughly 10-11 seconds so I would have got a time of roughly 2:19/2:20 had I quickly skipped it. I was actually collected all the honeycombs quicker that bkDJ, but the long tread back to the bridge ultimatley costed me time in the end. I take it if the cobble wobble area can be backflipped into early then that area would be done first, then we'd go back to doing it the normal way, the one thing I really found difficult was the swimming which means Clanker Cavern will be a nightmare to do.
bkDJ wrote:
JSmith wrote:
At SDA someone claimed to have seen a 1:40 video.
I have a feeling that that would be pausing the moment you have 6 honeycombs. Not trying to exit as well. I read somewhere that some guy got 1:42 on the 6th honeycomb and 2:00 to exit.
Man I used to have an excellent strategy guide with double-page rendered level layouts showing where all the notes and jiggies were. I'd scan it but I can't find it.
Sounds logical, but 2:00 for an exit does sound a bit perplexing. I think looking back at the 2:13 that could probally be improved by 3 seconds with frame perfect stuff and maybe 6-7 seconds with little tricks that we're yet to know i.e. getting to cobble-wobble early and faster movement, so maybe a perfect time would be 2:03
EDIT: Well I managed to collect all the honeycombs in 1:40, but it was all lot closer to 1:41. I timed it from the moment control is gained outside Banjo's house starting at the. I then checked the frame counter and found I had a time of 1:41.167. The route I took I think is definitley best if you want all the honeycombs, but not the exit since it cost an extra 5 seconds at least.
We seem to be quite far behind the high score times although there is no video proof of any of them and they could have used the talon trot for SM instead of starting from the very start when Banjo exits his house house, but beating a TAS by 20 seconds on a fairly simple level does sound questionable.
http://www.angelfire.com/pq/REX/ISBanjoKazooie.html
EDIT: Is there any individual WR videos for the levels.
seriously, an avi or m64 would be really helpful for this colliwobble jump. I can do it in the yellow grass, but not on the wall that's at a slight angle from the rest of the cliff.
http://tas.monotoli.org/mov/bk/ARRGH-bkDJ.mkv (less than 2MB)
I'm true to my word I borrowed your .m64 so I didn't have to sit through the start. I got a slow time, but can that bottles speech be speeded up. I used a completely different route for SM, just to show off some strategies (as well as what you wanted me to show you. This was all done with a mouse and keyboard, if it desyncs then you need to use a 0.6 plugin which is why I said to redo all of it since I use certain monovervures which can't be done on a keyboard.
http://rapidshare.de/files/29768002/bk_badTAS-bkDJ.m64.html
Yeah that AA Jump is slower as my Roll+Jump+Fly
AKA can you make a m64 file or AVI? I can't get in the cauliflower place with backflip :/
OK I'll have a little go at SM. Has anyone ever tried to skip the bridge without the honeycombs?
I've tried before and hard to think of anything logical, I thought by some miracle it might be possible to walk on the rope barriers , but I doubt thats possible.
I checked the collywobble area and you can backflip up to the area where the seam and the yellow grass meet. You have to hold down a so you get a higher backflip for longer. I'm not sure how much time it would save if any.
This video http://rapidshare.de/files/29478144/Mario_Testing_.avi.html might give you a better idea of what I was talking about earlier, its what I did for the mini OoT run earlier, achiving results that only a keyboard user could ever dream of, but its highly advisiable to use frame advance throughout and note down,memorize or visualise previous output. Ghosting input would certainly be useful feature if it was at all possible. I found setting it to degrees and tilt a little easier than coordinates.
OmnipotentEntity, I don't consider cc+gameshark as 'beating' it, but go ahead ;)
Every time CC was used to cross a gap, bomb flying would have worked just as well. Also, bomb flying could be used instead of glitching through the wall to get onto the ship. All CC did was save time and bombs.
Bomb hover wasn't discovered before these video was uploaded.
AKA are you doing a testrun or just toying around with Mupen?
Just toying around with it and showing off strategies, I'm gonna quit after entering the tree. I'm not really used to going back 5-10 seconds (possibly more) every time a mistake is made and I'm also using about 10 savestates which isn't actually enough.
YautjaElder wrote:
The boulder area could use more optimization. You should definitely use frame advance when side hopping, so that you jump as soon as you land. There was at least one sidehop more than needed in the boulder area.
I doubt you'd be able to do all these turns using slowdown or on a console since frame advance is being used throughout.
EDIT: Here it is I put it on YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6naef2cDruM
I went and did it up to the shield, and I'm using frame advance throughout the entire thing, but I fall a second short of Guano purely because I sidehop slower, which must have cost me at least 2 seconds
http://rapidshare.de/files/29643673/THE_LEGEND_OF_ZELDA__USA_.m64.html
I gonna experiment up till I enter the tree. I tested it and I'm pretty confident you cannot sidehop into the shop since I tested about 30 different angles not to mention decimal points. I couldn't get the sword spin to activate so I had to settle with a normal slash.
Here's a brief movie I tried to make on OoT, this is something which could never be done on a keyboard.
http://rapidshare.de/files/29614858/THE_LEGEND_OF_ZELDA__USA_.m64.html
Nitsuja:
How exactly should it show the previous input? A ghosted-out picture of the last time the angle was different, or something else?
If you watch the movie above, you'll see that I make several blind turns in it, which is what caused most of the difficulty in the movie. It would have been more easier to tweak these turns if the input from before was presented as some kind of ghost image. Would it also be possible to select angle and tilt as a preffernce as opposed to x,y coordinates
It could be simply be done as
Start at zero degrees north and divide the tilt by percentage and then apply the angle to it so you get something like e.g. 48%, 137 degrees.
Is the new 0.6 plugin being used for this movie since it may be worth starting over again since Spiral and MM could have been optimized better but I've enjoyed what I've seen so far.
EDIT: When the witch switch was hi,t couldn't Banjo be moved so that he fell on the ground below the witch switch platform.
I had a go at recording a short movie with the 0.6 plugin (refer to N64 emu topic if you want it). You'll need it if you want to view this file. I tried to at the very least get a near optimal result to the tunnel. Which is roughly 3 seconds quicker than Guano, but I couldn't get the line up correct so I could get 9 ruppees and be a quick turn away from the tunnel. I tried to sword spin at the end of the movie. Tell me if it desyncs, it should end with Link running towards the tunnel and cutting back in again on the left. I still belive that the tunnel could be reached 0.5 seconds quicker. The hardest bit I found was lining up the blind backwalks and sidehops.
Here it is anyway. Guano could also use it as something to beat in the next run.
http://rapidshare.de/files/29614858/THE_LEGEND_OF_ZELDA__USA_.m64.html
I'm starting to get the hang of it now although not fully. From what I understand.
1. Record new movie and make a savestate just as Link is about to jump out of bed by pressing shift+F1
2. Play until you wish to re-record
3. Change to read only using shift+8
4. Load the savestate using F1
5. When you want to resume recording press shift+8 to get it to change to read+write
6. Continuously loop steps 2-5
Is that about right
I had ago at it and I got as far as backwalking into the first two ruppees, but I wasn't at an obtuse enough angle to backflip onto the platform directily behind which meant I had to go all the way back to the balcony. Its a shame that the previous input isn't shown on the new 0.6 plugin as it would make ajustments far easier espeacially since there way back.
I do think thats an incredibly tedious process since you could quite easily accidently wipe everything off with a savestate.
Grrr.. Mupen is annoying I can't get it to resume recording. I thought that if you loaded a savestate and changed it to a read+write file then you would be able to resume recording. However I did figure out near enough the best coordinates for escaping Link house, although when you turn and roll is entirley up to you to figure out
The coordinates are
-100,-65 AND -116,-26
This is with the new 0.6 TAS plugin of course.
Is this movie getting put on the archive.org. Just anything but BitTorrents (pleeeease). I really do want to see it, smv files desync very quickly for me. I saw the last one and quite enjoyed but I could spot a few obvious improvements to it. Until then I cannot vote.
I've had a little mess around with new plugin and heres a little muck around I had earlier on (don't worry its a small file)
http://rapidshare.de/files/29478144/Mario_Testing_.avi.html
As you an see in real time using a mouse I have very erratic almost uncontrolable movement. I wasn't able to do the chain chomp star since I wasnt able to land on the wooden stake, I then convert to frame advance and enter values in manually and the difference is obvious in the control I have. However, getting near perfectiong out of this device will be painstaking, but at least you can be sure there is a way to get a certain jump or turn since you can go into decimal points.
I'm now gonna try sword spining in OoT.
EDIT:
http://rapidshare.de/files/29480834/Zelda_360.avi.html
Ah just as I thought you just need to face eight directions in a anti/clockwise movement and hit B when at the very moment at 360 is complete. I did it in 9 frames in the video but I beleve it can be done in eight if you face 45 degrees away from where Link is currently facing. I understand that when Guano tried to sword spin the game desynced. Would this plugin prevent it.
I've done Labarinth 2 with a 9 frame improvement. Marks out of ten for guessing where most of them were gained.
http://rapidshare.de/files/29410440/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_1_ALL_EMERALDS.gmv.html
I did lose frames in several places, but this is due to the annoying slight randomness of the game i.e. when the game seems to make decisions on whether or not you'll make a certain jump based on the input beforehand rather than time of arrival. Its really annoying all this inconsistency in the game. Its also annoying when you're trying to land on platforms since sometimes it can delay anywhere between 1-6 frames, but it can also have favourable results as well. Enjoy none the less and now for the most feared game level in all of sonic wish me luck.
I just checked again, and just before leaving the world, he picks up a 2nd honeycomb, but shouldn't there be 6? I haven't played BK in ages so I could be wrong, but if the level is complete I'd assume all 6 would have been collected..?
There are two in every level, to confirm this pause the game when the movie ends and check the inventory.
What I meant by autostick spin was selecting an option in which a very quick 360 spin on the analougue could be done. It would be helpful to people without a pad converter and would also speed up the movie making progress. Although I don't how games check for a 360 rotation my only guess is it checks if you have sequencially looked in eight directions in a anti/clockwise movement within a given time period. Since on rare ocassions I have been able to replicate on a keyboard certain moves in games that require 360 degrees movement on the analougue. Whats your thoughts on this?
Yeah that would be real pwnage, this is just what I was saying and you can also manually enter it in as well and you'll still be able to view previous input from the movie as well as others. Although this would probally cause re-records to sky rocket with good reason. The one other thing I would like to say is, wouldn't it be possible to manually enter inputs in a input box, since at certain parts of a game you may need to hold 4-5 buttons including the frame advance button. Couldn't you have the option of manually entering the sensity as well as the scroll bar.
Other features that I would like to see are
Resume recording function (like GENS) ,instead of converting to a write file since the currect re-recording system discourages using many re-records
Goto Frame feature e.g ||Input Box|| since movies are often long
Frame Skip
AND finally...
Autostick spin
EDIT: This would lead to very unhuman movements such as two very precise but completely differents tilts and angles.
You can also do a superslide without wasting time if you equip a bomb during a backwalk and then shield drop it, although getting it correctly alined might be a real pain, espeacially if you're doing it off enemies. I wonder if the hookshot is worth skiping in the next run.
While I don't have a problem with the backwalking, I think it is more than ok to voice an opinion over how dull the backwalking can be. Getting upset with people for making a legit observation on something is really stupid.
I don't have a problem of people complaining about the back walking, the only problem I do have is people requesting it not to be done in the next run since its a ludicris request and that the run sucked purely because of that, you have to realise that its painstaking to line up a backwalk and then re-record from 30 seconds earlier when you've discovered that the lining isn't correct. Anyway I think its a very unique way to move as opposed to to bunny hopping, rolling, running and zipping. Just saying...
This run seems pretty good so far. What is the current WR for Mumbo's Mountain anyway, since I know the record for that world is highly competive. I always wondered why I was much slower than that since I always went straight for the talon trot by going beyond the bridge, then revealing all the jiggies and then collecting them all as a termite. The only thing I can say about it is that playing on a keyboard does make it a little tricky to fully optimize movement.
Making a 100% run does make sense since the worlds are perfectly laid out in a way that everything can be done in one merry go round, but don't bother with the mystery eggs since they don't/never serve/d any purpose and you can also get them on a new file if you already have them on another file.
Is skipping the gold feathers really worth it? Since it would help in disposing some enemies in minigames vey quickly, and isn't it needed to hurt Gruntdila. Anyway good job so far.
