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Ohhhh Shit!
Gromba just bitched slapped it.
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Dromiceius wrote:
Sounds like someone should just bruteforce it with Lua. With a rough idea of how Samus is to be positioned and what inputs are reasonable, it wouldn't take that long to test all possibilities.
I am not for brute forcing it. Me and Taco just spat out all the numbers, TBH if this trick is real, I would be pissed.
Gunna take a look at that AVI, thanks Gocha for doing that. And btw, if this trick IS real, yes, it will bring something brand new to the general route.
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Kejardon wrote:
Oh well this is interesting.
What's actually bugging me most is the way the explosion stops far past the block though. This isn't a normal case of a super missile going through the wall. The (buggy) collision detection doesn't stop the explosion like that, it does bizarre stuff like in Spoofer's first picture of explosion+missile.
Yes, incase you missed it, I was able to manipulate where the explosion happens past the gate by abusing screen scrolling. Would love an explanation on that :D
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ICheatAtGolf wrote:
There has to be an SMV floating around for it. Maybe we should get someone who can translate to scope out the site and see who's behind the video.
Go get the 1 TASer... What's his face.. Uhh.. Terimakishash or something.
Me and Taco have decided to find the numbers out once and for all. We made a hack, gave ourselves supers, SB, hi jump, tanks, etc. Enough room to reach max speed and jumping room before the green gate with the block in tact.
Were going for the minimum speed and plan on playing with it. Absolute genius.
Edit: You can play the SMV in the original rom just fine.
Taco says:
I think we can get 2.2 something speed in normal SM in the gate area, I don't see how we can get it higher... This is where we're forced to think outside the box.
Taco says:
here's the thing, you need to be moving 7 pixels per frame to open the gate like that. my speed and momentum combined in that smv is 7 pixels a frame, the only way it can happen.
Taco says:
so it's not only speed we want to raise, boosts to momentum would help too. I don't see how we could do that, just throwing it out there in case you have an idea.
Minimal speed needed: 5.40960 with a dash of momentum.
Keep in mind this was the lowest we could get after about 20 minutes of testing it. :S
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/502444106/gate%20opened.smv
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TakaM wrote:
I envision Saturn is reading these posts like this:
Heyyy now HEYyyy now!
Despite past arguments involving Saturn, I gotta point out that he hasn't said a word. Besides he's insanely skilled with video editing, and I would take his word in a heartbeat (despite my own tests) if he claimed that video to be fake with valid reason.
I am curious about what he has to say with mine and Taco's tests.
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hero of the day wrote:
Not sure I agree with you Spoofer... Did you consider that Samus' shinespark is movable on the subpixel level? The timing of the spark itself could play a huge role. Samus spark position ( x ) screen position ( + ) firing location ( = ) many possible combination's
I did not put together Samus's spark in combo with screen position. This is the part where I shut my mouth. Doh.
I still defend the firing positions to be very limited, and therefor, greatly decreases the spark timing + screen position.
DAMIT I'm so hyped up about this gate.. where's Saturn, Kej, and Cpadolf. Fuckers mia.
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hero of the day wrote:
I still am not entirely convinced that it is fake though. Unfortunately without an SMV, it would be almost impossible to reproduce the exact conditions shown in the clip. When factoring the screen position and samus' position to the subpixel level, the amount of combinations is mind boggling.
Hero hero hero... don't be so noob!
Super missles (and projectiles in genral I belive), when fired, are rounded to the nearest whole pixel. Vertically, it isn't a problem, as far as we know. We didn't find anything on projectile subpixels on Kej's RAM map.
Horizontally, there are very few places where the super can be fired to successfully pass the gate. Subpixels play a small role here and also won't be too much trouble.
Where it gets tricky is the screen position. Luckily, the only thing that should matter is the horizontal pixel/subp of it. That is what will fuck you against your will.
Prove me wrong. Doh :(
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OmnipotentEntity wrote:
NameSpoofer wrote:
What?
This?
That wasn't very difficult to find. :(
That's the one, again, this was a long time ago (right when Redesign first launched) and I haven't been keeping up, so I didn't know if it had been made public, so I'd rather do the honorable thing and defer to my instructions than simply assume that it had been made public.
Ohhhh you honest friend you!
Completely understandable either way.
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ICheatAtGolf wrote:
I find it a little odd how the video is compiled with a bunch of useless/well known tricks, and then one of the biggest sequence breaks in TASing. This one surpasses even the Torizo Skip in technicality, yet the video also boasts wall jumping with monkeys. Does anyone else find this a little questionable?
Very, was my first thought.
Anyways, me and Taco are ready to deem it a fake for the following reasons:
Firstly, the statement Golfer just posted.
Secondly, numbers generally do not lie, and the logged tests completely back it up.
The only factor I see here is some unknown ability/effect of the fake explosion of a super missle.
Please remember this is our opinion, so don't be discouraged to try yourself.. Cough..Cp..cough.
Uhm.. Yeah, going to upload pics in just a sec.
Edit: And now, ladies, gentlemen, and fags, it is now time for some beautiful artwork by none other than the might of Taco+Spoofer.
Click to Enlarge.
First piece: Spoofer's Frontal Assault
Second piece:
Taco's Blind Rage
Even with the combined forces of Taco and Spoofer, the gate remains Godlike:
Galick Gun Go!
I think this gate might be a Super Sayian 6 or some bullshit.
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By any chance does somebody have any kind of RAM address involving super missles?
Anything that will help with the position logging.
EDIT: Ok, after some serious testing, myself and Taco have discovered these things:
1) The absolute highest you can fire the supermissle, using RAM address 7E0B78 is 96, that is excatly below the block that is in front of the gate, at 97, it is considered to hit that block, which would mean that from that point, you would need to get it through both blocks.
2) I found that by delaying the spark by so many frames, you can actually manipulate where the super missle explodes, beyond the gate.
3) Starting from the wall (X pos. 437), you need to have a momentum of 1.24576 to have the super missle pass completely through the gate from X pos. 442.0.
With this knowledge, I was able to have the super missle at 96, and was able to have the explosion right in the dead center underneath the switch.
I was also able to have the super missle perform a "glitched fake" explosion and have it continuing, which is what seemed to happen in the video.
Either way, I do not see it being possible to have the super missle successfully hit the trigger from underneath, which means, assuming the video is real, he somehow managed to get the super missle through both blocks. :S
I messed up the other SMV where the super performed a faked-glitch explosion, but it looks almost excatly like the video, where it explodes a little past the gate.
GateAttempt1
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Graveworm wrote:
How would that save time again? Looks like it takes quite a while to set up, and it means you'd either have to kill Kraid first, or do a norfair heat run (not awesome).
I guess you might as well pick up plasma if you're doing this? But it'll cost alot of time in terms of setting up and doing Norfair either without Varia, I'm sure that wont save time though, or doing Kraids lair without speed booster or such, and Norfair without power bombs.
Or am I missing something crucial here?
Heh, the crucial part is what Taco and myself are testing right now. If the idea he just came up with works, we have a new breakthrough.
Could be a few hours.
And this saves time because going through Maridia rather than down the shaft is wayyy faster from that point. The tricky part is doing it without the spark.
Hero, can you please explain more clearly what you mean by using a spark to place the gate in the correct vertical position..?
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Oh shit. It looks real too.
Why is Hero of the Day on there, I noticed his name floating around. O.o
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What?
This?
That wasn't very difficult to find. :(
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ICheatAtGolf wrote:
NameSpoofer wrote:
I’ve made my point clearly enough that even a sorry ass like you can understand.
Nice going, right?
So predictable. I knew you couldn't get through writing that entire message without name calling. Please, continue proving your arrogance.
I don't care about your reason for joining the community, but telling people that you "Run this shit" is just like talking down to them. That's the point i'm trying to make here.
FUCK it is too difficult to not post!
THE FUCKING STATEMENT WAS A JOKE TO BEGIN WITH, HOW MUCH OF AN IDIOT CAN YOU POSSIBLY BE.
And name-calling PUTS YOU IN YOUR PLACE AND MAKES ME FEEL BETTER.
Ofc, anger problems combined with not being afraid/worried in anyway to justify my own reasons always seems to help. Fudge. Anyways, I felt you should know the inital point of the first post and how your the only
Asshole who took it the way you did. Uh-oh, showed my arrogance again to sombody, oh wait, excuse me, the community by namecalling. Shit!!!
Ok, now I'm done.. I think..
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ICheatAtGolf wrote:
NameSpoofer wrote:
Respect means SOOO much from people I don't talk to or know in any way.
It should. This community is the main source of your feedback as well as the majority of your audience. The way you tried to "Call the shots", among people who are supposed to be your peers just made you look immature and arrogant. Even more so because you were drunk. Nice going.
Personally, I could care less about having the respect of this community. Now that doesn't mean I'm going to start pissing the community off by starting bullshit or trying to act like a boss. I TAS not to earn respect from you, but to impress only but a few people and to have fun. I do gladly share what I have done so you can enjoy it as well, but as I said, I don’t care about your respect, it is worthless to me just as you are. Ofc, that sounds a little ruthless, but oh well.
The only reason I even began to TAS was not because I saw this community and said “oh wow! I want to impress these people!”, it was because I saw Cpadolf’s ingameany% and wondered just how the hell somebody could possibly do that to a game, I want that ability and I want my own movie. Uh.. don’t quite know how to say it, but I guess it would be similar to the concept of beating a video game. It is just as simple as that.
Don’t get me wrong, the community is great place for insight and knowledge, which is what I used it for, and I give back by sharing my own work. That in itself is possibly the only reason I don’t just PM the guys I want to share it with.
Anyways, just for the record, it makes perfect sense to me that there would be a group leader for the undertaking of an SM:R 100% run.
I won’t respond again, as this is pointless. I’ve made my point clearly enough that even a sorry ass like you can understand.
Nice going, right?
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Kriole wrote:
ICheatAtGolf wrote:
I just lost loads of respect for you and your work.
He was drunk, mate ;]
Disregard that fact Kriole, let him take it how he wants it. It was an obvious over-reaction. :S
As for my snazzy comeback:
Respect means SOOO much from people I don't talk to or know in any way. I guess I need to take it back anyways so I can try to redeem some respect considering that is excatly what I'm attempting to get. Having fun obviously wasn't the main motivator to TAS in the first place. Doh.
..Bam?
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People, start brainstorming a TAS-form 100% route.
Not naming names, but it is a possibility that a project will start with some people if route ideas are being thrown around. Work together to get a possible rough route estimate ready for revision.
Yeah.. I run this shit right here. Bam.
Btw, neat devious trick Saturn. :D
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To attain the ability to do it as the pros do un-assassited, it takes both understanding of how the charge works and a lot of pratice.
I agree with you 100% that it is extremely difficult to learn how to do it just from reading text and looking at a picture of Samus in a running position.
The way I learned was I took an SMV that contained the short charge (Any TAS Speedrun will do, excluding glitched any%), and watched what buttons were pressed on what frames, obviously watching 1 frame at a time utilizing the frame advance function.
After you watch it a bazillion times, try to perform it yourself through frame advance first. Why? Don't ask me, it just seems to make it insanely easier if you can successfully do a super short charge through frame advance first, then attempt it in realtime, because you will know excatly how it works.
Hopefully this will help.
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Would shinesparking in a no-damage run be against the rules? >.<
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What the fuck!
Fucking stuck on n00b bridge.. Again.. >_>
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I change my mind. I don't want to be involved in this nonsense. It is being taken wayyy too seriously for my tastes.
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Yo.. I didn't read everything, but methinks I read enough to input some not-so-bullshit bullshit. :o
I think 14% should get its own catagorey. >_>
Has different goals than the 6%. Stop making it complicated.
The only reason this run should be rejected is because of all the known improvements.
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Well, seeing as how it is apparently faster to go Phantoon first regardless, if I were to do an SB route, I wouldn't go WS first considering how much the SB is actually used there, simply for entertainment.
And, TBH, I believe that with all the optimizations found, the time between going WS first vs getting SB first would be very close. Mabye I'm crazy. =\
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I need no help.. >_>
If I dig up those 15 seconds of "known" improvements, would it be a possibility that the category becomes a reality??
I would be more than happy to obselete a run by Saturn. (Not an insult, just a screwed up compliment :o)
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Yesssssssssss!
Bring back the legit 14%!!!!!!!!
I had plans long ago of dominating this category.. If it comes back, I shall def do an SB route or something, after the projects I have planned >_>
Anyways, the entertainment value was off the scale. Just that ugly beginning is all. Amazing run Saturn, as was expected.
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