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Dooty wrote:
I guess it's ~100 frames faster, but I'm trying not to compare it stage by stage,
there will be some slower stages up ahead, so it's better to compare the final time.
/by the way, I'm not sure if I want to obsolete anyone elses run,
if there's a way to put it in a separate category, it would be nice.
I don't think it's worth having a separate category for hard mode. The only real difference is a small change in Kong management; not a big deal. Hard mode will either end up faster or it won't. If it does, go with it and be happy that you saved some time making that choice. Why don't you want to obsolete the current run?
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Henpaku wrote:
Hello there Henpaku here
I am very new to this forum and only recently found out about the TAS website.
I am currently trying to make a TAS of a SMW hack that i obtained from Nicovideo, purely for my own enjoyment ( if anyone wants to see it later on im very happy to show it off :) )
anyway to my problem at hand, I have been trying to accomplish wall jumping in game, and have not been very succesfull.
I found a brief guide in the game resources section about walljumping and even a youtube tutorial online. so at the very least i can sometimes pull off a wall jump.
My problem is that for the level where I want to wall jump, i need to keep climbing up the wall, like megaman does, and while i can (sometimes ) do a walljump, i cant seem to wall jump on the same wall over and over.
Does anyone have any more detailed information about the mechanics of wall jumping? especially if i want to wall jump again on the same wall. ive searched the forum for a while, but this place is huge, i'm not having much luck :/
If you aren't already, I highly recommend that you watch the following memory addresses:
http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/SNES/SuperMarioWorld.html#UefulMemoryAddree
Firstly, you should know that wall jumps can only be performed where 2 blocks meet. All blocks in this game are 16 pixels high (and wide), so the boundaries occur whenever the Y position address ends in a 0 (if viewed as a hexadecimal). Also, you need an X speed of at least 33 to 'snag the wall'.
You'll want to know where on the wall you can you wall jump. Sometimes it's obvious; if the wall is made of grey stone blocks or those yellow turning ones, for example, it's obvious where the block boundaries are. If the wall looks continuous, you'll want to jump to roughly the height you want to jump from and look for a close Y position value that ends in a 0.
A good strategy for actually doing the wall jump is to first jump too high. Jump so that when you hit the wall (and your speed drops very close to 0), you're slightly higher than the block boundary. Keep altering your jump so that you get closer and closer to the boundary, but don't hit the wall below it. You may snag the wall just by altering your jump, but if not you'll need to play with your speed.
Don't change your jump now. At some random point as you approach the wall, lower your speed slightly. If you're doing the hopping glitch, press right for a frame so that your speed decreases by 1 unit. Now check what your Y position is like when you hit the wall. If you're still too high, you'll want to slow down earlier. For example, if you pressed right to slow down on frame n, try doing it on frame n-1. Conversely, if by slowing down you're now too low, try doing it a frame later.
If pressing right for 1 frame doesn't work on any frame, try pressing right for 2 frames. From this point onward it's largely trial and error, guesswork and a bit of luck. Keep trying and you should get it without too much pain. :)
As for consecutive wall jumps on the same wall, the best you can do is to jump away from the wall and back again 2 blocks higher. Firstly, remember that you need to jump back with a speed of at least 33. There's a great example of consecutive wall jumps by Mister:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1184581186/small-fgh-demo.smv
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Dooty wrote:
Wow, it was hard to squeeze any frames from this run, but here it is, my reusable concept at it's best.
Great job, Dooty! Do you plan on submitting this? Since it's still largely Comicalflop's run, I don't know exactly how you'd be credited (co-authorship or no?). In any case, it's an improvement, so I don't see why it won't be accepted. :)
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Dooty wrote:
Dooty wrote:
I know it's not much, but this run is already very well optimized, so it's hard to improve.
by the by, I'm not trying to improve your run, I'm not so pretentious.
when you watch it, you'll see that I'm not even changing it too much,
just the boss fights are being redone, the rest is almost the same.
I'm now 61 frames ahead trying to deal with Kreepy Krow's fight.
Here's the barrel placement if I enter in the first possible frame:
right, right, left, only the second barrel is right, right? maybe...
The best barrel set-up is middle, right, right. In the current any% and 102%, we were forced to go with middle, right, middle. This is slower, but we had no choice due to back luck (it would've cost more time to get the better set-up than it saves over what we did). As far as I know, the only way to manipulate the barrels is to change the frame you enter the boss on. Just hope you get better luck than what we had. :/
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Dooty wrote:
Now I'm trying to improve the any% without the route change,
the only parts that will be reused are those I can't improve or
can't change inputs without losing frames.
Boss battles will be recreated from scratch.
Some tricks will be performed differently.
My new little trick will make it's debut.
:)
How much time do you think can be saved altogether?
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bullethead2202 wrote:
I also found a new speed trick while doing this if its helpful to anyone.
Since I needed to maintain sprinting speed, I couldn't do the hopping glitch. Instead, while in air, I let go 2 frames before hitting subpixel 49, held it like that for 5 frames, then I started moving again to keep my running speed for 5 frames, then repeat.
What I'm trying to say is I let go of > for 5 frames, pressed > for 5 frames, and repeat.
This changes the running pattern to 49(x6), 48, 47, 48, 47, repeat. I might be slightly off with that. If you let go for 6 frames, mario's speed will fall to 46 for one frame, and it'll take longer to get it back to 49.
I cannot find the microstorage because I haven't had to use in it months, but if someone could post a link that would be great.
This concept has been well analysed and used for a long time now. Releasing > for 6 frames does not make Mario's speed fall to 46 when > is pressed again, but releasing it for 7 frames does. The optimal input is to keep releasing > for 6 frames on 49 and then holding > for 5 frames. Its common name is '6/5'.
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Thanks for the info' on fadeout lag and score.
In Super Demo World, with better score control, the first level can be improved by a frame. Level 2 should be improvable as well. For an any% run, should score always be controlled to minimise lag? I'd guess an obvious yes, but I'd like to be certain.
Edit:
I redid the first few levels, taking score into account. Up to the start of level 4, I managed to improve jimsfriend's WIP by 6 frames (if his WIP were to finish level 3).
smv
If nobody else is already working on this, I may consider giving the run a serious attempt.
I made a test run of the first two levels in Super Demo World not too long ago and ran into some problems regarding fadeout lag.
smv
Comparing to jimsfriend's WIP, I was 3 pixels faster at the end of level 1 (goal tape went poof 2 frames sooner), but for whatever reason this didn't save any frames on entering level 2.
At the end of level 2, I was 5 pixels faster (goal tape goes poof 2 frames sooner again), but I ended up starting level 3 10 frames later! I know lag is caused by your score and coin count and stuff, but I actually had 1290 fewer points. Is there anything one can do to reduce or control this lag in any way?
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Dooty wrote:
Thanks for the tips. here's the double jump in use to reach a bonus barrel.
Jump below a small enemy, like a croc tail or Neek's nose then put v+B.
it worked in Castle Crush too, but there's a barrel that prevents Squawlks
to go down where I want him... and to jump higher just crouch longer.
/-error around frame 44265:
um... thats why I wasn't able to get out of the water. thanks.
//-Warp: one long roll:
I reached Krow's Nest with the warp changes,
but Krow is throwing useless eggs like crazy!
It's better to leave the first world as is, sorry.
Very nice little trick. Think it'll save time anywhere?
Also, I redid Jungle Jinx's bonus and saved 42 more frames.
smv
It might be possible to optimise it more; I didn't spend a lot of time on this. I think the route's pretty good though.
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Nice WIP, Dooty! I was particularly surprised by Gangplank Galley and the way you collected the DK coin on Lockjaw's Locker. Good job!
The only obvious copying error I saw seems to be at around frame 44265, where you hit the wall you're trying to jump over in Lava Lagoon. It's nothing big, but it's certainly going to lose a little bit of time.
As for Jungle Jinx, this was what I had in mind for the bonus:
smv
If I remember correctly, it's around 47-50 frames faster.
Also, before you edited your last post, I think you mentioned something about a double jump technique. Could you please elaborate on that?
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wellbe6 wrote:
...
wellbe6, opening a thread with '...' is not a great way to start a discussion. What exactly is it you want to talk about? I would've thought it's a bit too early to start discussing tricks and shortcuts, considering the game isn't even out yet.
However, from the Super Mario Galaxy thread:
keatsta wrote:
On a related note, Super Mario Galaxy 2 runs fine in Dolphin. Anyone want to take a crack at getting a TAS done before the game even comes out?
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Time for a progress report!
2-1 is the only level where spezzafer used a warp trick to go back to 1-1 in his WIP. There are several other places where warping is possible -- 2 which spezzafer missed -- but we decided a while ago against using them. While they do save quite a lot of time, we didn't want to see 1-1 completed 5 or 6 times, and things become rather awkward if one allows 1-1 warping but not left+right warping. It was therefore inevitable that 2-1 would be a big loss for our run timewise, but not in the entertainment department (we hope!)
Getting down to business... We've finished 2-1 now and ended up losing 2694 frames. However, in world 1 we managed to save a total of 2707 frames, meaning at the start of 2-2 we're still ahead by 13 frames! This will be the only level we lose time at; from here on out we're on the same playing field as spezzafer.
I keep my forum signature updated with our current progress, and as of now we're at the start of 2-2.
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Dooty wrote:
Hi Paused, sorry for the lack of wips, but I'm using some tricks
that will be present in Comicalflop's any% improvement and he
asked me to not spoil his run.
Comicalflop has sumbitted his run! How about now? :)
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Wall jumping at those two places featured in your smvs won't actually save time. In 1-2, that entire middle room will be skipped anyway, although a wall jump may speed up the sequence break, as currently Yoshi needs to flutter on top of the structure half way through the first room. It should be faster just to use the springboard thing in 1-4.
But thanks a lot for bringing this to attention. I fluked a walljump quite a long time ago, but was never able to reproduce it. I'll be sure to look into it a lot more now you've made it look so easy.
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Dooty wrote:
What I mean is that the time required to implement an improvement,
and then completing a level without any significant change can be decreased drastically.
ex: Topsail Trouble took me only one hour to improve, paste your "code" and get rid of the desync.
How did you manage to save 114 frames up to Krow? That's more than the new any% in progress. Have you found something new? Also, do you know of any other new tricks/strategies for the rest of the run? Comicalflop and I have discovered quite a lot of new things here and there, but maybe you've found some different stuff.
I still don't understand what you're doing. Are you copying sections from the current any% and 102%? I recommend you don't, as quite a lot of improvements for the 102% have been found since it was made.
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Time for a small update.
Today we finally finished world 1, meaning we’ve completed roughly 15% (4/27) of the run. Yes, it's taken a while, but so far we’ve frequently ran into trouble and have been forced to redo quite a lot.
There’s no WIP for the time being, as we’ve decided to release them in groups of 4 levels for every world we complete. This means that by the time we finish world 6, we can release a WIP which goes about as far as spezzafer's. After this, we only need to complete the 6 remaining secret levels before submitting the final run. However, for this to work our world 1 WIP won’t be released until world 2 is complete.
I'd like to say it won't take too long, but this game has proven to be fairly unpredictable. I just wanted to let you know that we aren’t dead, yet. ;)
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Personally, I found this run to be boring, repetitive and uninteresting to watch... but others didn't. I'd be in favour of having a movie accepted, irrespective of my own opinion, if an audience who genuinely finds it entertaining exists.
However, if acceptance is determined by the majority's opinion, add my no vote to the list.
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While it's mostly done for entertainment, it also means that we nearly always have a healthy supply of red eggs, leaving us with more opportunities to shoot things for stars.
There was also one point in 1-4 where juggling eggs saved time, as we were able to 'carry' a total of 7 eggs across part of the level instead of 6.
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Well...
We were about 3/4 of the way through 1-5 when we realised a red coin right near the start decided it didn’t want to appear, meaning we’d only be able to finish the level with 99 points. This pretty much killed my motivation, and I haven't made any progress during the past few months.
However, I finished 1-5 today, so hopefully things will speed up again. :)
Sorry about the delay!
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LightBlueYoshi/Y05H1 found a few cool tricks for this game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbwCweVSVeQ&feature=channel
Copied from video description:
'Instant Speed Drop:
Really helpful for turning around! By ducking for one frame and jumping on the next, you can immediately drop your speed to 12.
Pipe Boosting:
Some pipes release you one tile below the top of the pipe. You're allowed to boost yourself on these pipes (as long as you're coming out from the bottom). The first frame you're able to gain control, jump. When you jump, moving to the left or right for the next two frames will boost you in the opposite direction! In some places (like in the one at 0:24), you can go into walls. This is probably why the game designers made sure that most pipes were extended at least one tile above the ground...
Infinite Jumping Glitch:
This isn't exactly infinite, since every jump requires one egg. When you throw an egg in one direction, holding in the opposite direction right after Yoshi's throwing animation is finished will cause him to act like he's on the ground for two frames. You're allowed to jump on those frames - even when falling! Vary when you want to time your jump by timing your egg throw. Keep in mind, though, that you have to jump on the first frame. Otherwise, if you jump on the second frame, it, for some reason, doesn't allow you to jump the next time. (Skip to 1:06 to see it used 6 times in a row!)'
