(Also not sure what the history of the ancient defunct WebNations channel is or who even owns that, but if that's affiliated with somebody in charge here who has the password, could serve as a good "second channel" if it isn't agreed to do this on the main channel)
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In a world where a TAS explanation of Super Mario 64 has 8,500,000 views, I thought it would be cool to consider uploading voice commentary to the TASVideosChannel.
Right now any voice commentary is tucked away in alternate encodes in the fine print of submissions and publications, and I don't know that I've ever even used this function to watch a movie, let alone a commentary.
I think this would be a big draw for the community and the outsiders alike, and focus a little more on teaching people what is going on and talking about general TAS knowledge, not only entertaining the viewers, but educating them, and most importantly, potentially drawing more users to the community.
There is a big communication gap on all the work that goes into TASing, and then some, and I think this would help inform and educate viewers and get them a whole lot more interested in what we do. The popularity of speedrunning and TASing continues to grow (I remember in the early 2010s when AGDQ was in a basement, I was speedrunning around then), but it continues to baffle me that Bismuth can rack in millions of views and the TASVideosChannel is currently averaging 5,000 views per video "on a good day".
I think also the obligation for the editing should be on the submitter, as I believe being able to pause/play the run to go over things would be beneficial as opposed to having to talk fast to cover all that is happening.
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Is there any reason you can't name the character "0" and save frames?
I tried messing with it but you're skipping the animation afterwards which I wasn't pulling off in my quick 5 or 10 minute test.
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I'm thinking there is a timesave with Rev A that is valid, and then the further timesave on such an old emulator is a result of emulation inaccuracy. I'd use BizHawk 2.9.1 and get the extra frame
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Jack-Retro, would you be able to patch up the desync in ice level as you have more knowledge of the game than I?
From what I see, the movie should continue syncing if this one problem area is patched up. More desyncs may present themselves, but they will be seperate.
I'm not sure if RNG is causing it, or something else. Could you take a look?
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My comments on a theoretical ACE payload which launched directly into the credits was mostly just for an argument for considering the ending sequence before the credits as gameplay (which in turn was a secondary argument for including the input to the credits in the final movie). Whether or not such an ACE payload is and if it's even possible is for someone else to figure out, and at most leaves it to a theoretical possible improvement. This doesn't mean anything for if this movie is accepted or not; it only leaves in a path for it to be potentially obsoleted in the future.
Sounds good to me. I thought of that too, but as stated in previous posts it doesn't seem there's enough room for the code, particularly different integers for both the cutscene id and the part id. I'm definitely interested into looking more into this but only after this submission is published (or not).
Also, to whoever encodes, the credits run in a weird way when half the letters don't show up unless at the correct FPS(?) or something along those lines. They flicker bad on the emulator and don't encode well at all. There's also a sprite at the end of the game which flickers that does not appear in my encode. (After the credits)
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CPP, do you have any further thoughts now as the new judge?
I'm not seeing there to be enough room in the ACE to execute what you're thinking, even if it leaves with a glitched credits screen and/or a mid-entry into the credits.
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Prep ared a new SaveRAM file with the difficulty jacked all the way up which will shorten the bonuses and the bonus round timer.
I'll get that all sorted out tomorrow. Additionally I need to mash buttons through the intro.
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Note that the above does not have a save state.
What the author was trying to accomplish was disabling the training text in the settings. It is indeed a tricky thing so I get why he did it. However I eliminated the save state and used SaveRAM to make it more proper. The circuit board had a battery on the board to hold the settings.
If nobody else gets to it I'll go over the run and fix the desync (or try, hopefully it's not major) and make the co-authorship worth the while. Enjoy!
The movie file is longer likely due to the save state giving an unfair advantage but I'll sort that out later, I didn't optimize much of it yet, just kind of got it to work and trimmed all the garbage from adding credits and pressing start, I'll check it out in a few hours.
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Spent an hour and a half of this mess. MAME doesn't like this but I got it to work. **THERE IS A DESYNC CAUSED BY RNG WHICH NEEDS TO BE FIXED IN THE ICE LEVEL**
I actually own an arcade and the dipswitch settings are integral to a game's operating system. In the 80's Atari switched from many different dipswitches to save costs to just one to enter a service menu to set them digitally. The service menu dipswitch is in the sync settings and as such cannot be changed with TAStudio open, nor can the core apparently be soft reset or hard reset to make this easier outside of the TAStudio.
Anyways, I managed to create a SaveRAM and then load it into a .tasproj file.
All fixed now for you.
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638279002612996037
SaveRAM verification bk2: https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638279002776258002
I also put it into free play to save you some time adding credits.
I'm going to request co-author on this one if possible as I spent a lot of time fixing this but also the free play idea.
I need to get off now but when I get home I'll check if settings players to 1 instead of factory 3 will skip the waiting screen.
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It also should be noted I lost 5-6 frames from the cheetah menu to the selection menu, before any inputs are possible, so there's something odd going on here. However I then gained back much more later on. Lose some, take many.
Your FCEUX is 3.5 versions out of date (2.3.0 vs. 2.6.5) and 3 years out of date, so maybe that is why. But even then I thought they had it pretty downpact in 2021.
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87 frames saved.
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638278907131826344
Your menuing:
Us
[lag frame]
[input delay]
U
[input delay]
U
[input delay]
US
My menuing:
U
[input delay]
U
[input delay]
U
[input delay]
USs
This saves one frame of movement and one frame of lag as it does not appear triggering start and select on the same frame creates the lag frame as normal. That saves 2 frames in total.
For some reason this also let me press start sooner on the next screen sooner, also saving another frame. So that is 2 frames.
Additionally, I don't know if your script messed up or what, but you can start each level much earlier than you did. However, I'm running NesHawk on BizHawk 2.9.1. This was something I did not expect as I figured NES emulation should be consistent at this point across all approved platforms after decades of work, and the huge difference is obviously worrisome. So perhaps this is not an error on your part but emulation error, but sure is a heck of a lot of frames, so I'm not sure what's up with this.
All the movement started late, and the inbetween of levels was delayed by several frames. I'm chalking it up to emulation error but it definitely should be looked into.
Co-author would be nice but I'm leaving that up to you if this ends up being emulation error. I didn't change much other than the menuing then. I've seen 1 frame and 2 frame co-authors but not sure I want to be that guy...
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Here's a file with the credits rolled. The only other thing I can think of is that the 3 enemies you must kill to setup ACE must not be possible within the glitched dungeon, as I'm sure somebody would have thought about that, and many (most RTA) runs exist where people kill all 3 enemies at the end as it gives them some false hope of helping the glitch work, when in reality I think it's so optimized at this point that it is an unintentional timing strategy for landing on a green value. I only kill one in this thanks for the frame perfect nature of TASing, and that is just because it's in my way. Nonetheless, killing enemies in the dungeon doesn't seem to affect the "3 kills" value, so I'm going to rule that theory out. Still nothing that works on direct credits warp.
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638278871081244628
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bad news: i’m gonna have to cancel this anyway because i found a faster run that was rejected for game choice.
I was thinking about this run today and I wouldn't be surprised if your second of time loss is due to 16 years of emulation improvement
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Ah so the old method isn't even valid, good to know!
I did take a closer look at the start of the run, and some movement tricks seem to be missing.
- You can hold Down/Left while talking to Tarin to move a few frames. One when talking starts and once when you get the shield.
- You can corner boost off of the door when exiting and 2 times on the fence.
- It is possible to manipulate bow-wow to get a shield boost off of.
I tried copying some movement from my old TAS into yours. The bow-wow manipulation didn't sync, but the other movement did after inserting some empty frames. Its probably possible to manipulate bow-wow, but I forget how that done.
If I timed it right, then this sample enters the library room at 2550 instead of 2584. I haven't TASed anything in years, so hopefully this syncs on your machine. I used BizHawk 2.9.1 with the default emulator settings. File: https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638278003828105587
I didn't look at movement after that, but it might be possible to apply corner boosting elsewhere if not already used. I only skimmed the ACE part, but I'm hoping frames saved prior to resetting would not effect later waiting at the chest for the right value to open it at.
The quicker the run is, the longer the waiting is at the chest.
All in all, since I am waiting for the in-game timer to scroll to the correct value (see submission details and comments), the time will remain the same.
I'll see what ThunderAxe thinks and I'll patch it up if need be for these little improvements. My goal was originally to optimize the movement as much as possible just for the sake of doing it, but I clearly missed some.
Thanks for your help!
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I meant write assembly/asm in the former post. Woke up too early. Lol.
Anyways, the more I look at this, I'm thinking the people who discovered this really knew what they were doing and I'm not sure there is another feasible option.
We would need to find the value for the credits themselves and see what it is, and then see if it's beyond the size of the number of parts within that cutscene.
I.E. If the credits are value 1F, then the part would also have to be 1F, and there's surely not 31 (1F) parts to the cutscene.
There's a few options I have in mind for lowering A back down or loading from another register, but there really isn't a lot of room to work with.
Simply put, there's maybe a byte of free space. A lot of this magic is possible only because the cutscene id and part id share the same digit and as such there's room to make that work, making those separate would require more room. So that leaves us with the possibility that the cutscene ID for the credits is less than the total number of parts in that cutscene (i.e. if it has 4 parts the id would need to be 2, 3, or 4.)
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I messed with the disassembler a little bit (I used to write disassembly for work so it comes very easy to me albeit not as much as some people) and so far, no good.
The code is basically hodgepodging together chunks of data that are conveniently the right value (link's sword value not being 01 would kill this whole possibility as that creates a load instruction that kicks the whole thing off), with bits of customizable data in between (i.e. the file names).
There is a bit where "ldd (hl),a" is done twice, which loads A (01) in FB96 (cutscene id), then decreases the target to FB95 (cutscene part), and adds it to that as well.
This constitutes only two bytes (32 32), and is extremely optimal. To rewrite this to manually add different values to FB96 and FB95 would require a lot more room than I'm given, either through direct instructions or some "inc dec" tomfoolery to make some magic happen. I'm not seeing it.
It is also extremely convenient that this is cutscene 1, part 1, since now we must work with the same digit for both values. Meaning this is the only possible "correct" cutscene in the game available through this, which just so happens to be the cutscene connected to the credits. Amazing. Anyways, I toyed around with this value (loading A with values other than 1) in hopes of getting a "cutscene 2, part 2", and maybe eventually stumbling upon the mid-section of the credits, but I was unsuccessful at present.
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Sounds good about the timing, I don't mind at all.
As for the cutscene, the value loads in using the filenames. The cutscene we jump to is cutscene 01, section 01. As such, the value is not defined seperately but rather the value "01" is shared. I'll have to find the value of the credits screen and see if it has enough parts to still share the ID, however it'll start in the middle somewhere (which appararently doesn't matter).
I don't think there's enough characters to accomplish this cleanly and define the values seperately, but I can definitely take a look at it. If anybody has knowledge on the other cutscene IDs, feel free to let me know.
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Very nice! Liked that assembly breakdown and with that explanation it makes sense how it works. Yet another game that been beaten in a bizarrely fast way. Yes vote.
Thanks!
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but uses a glitchy warp to mid credits instead of the cleaner warp that your run does.
A warp mid-credits would probably be more optimal under a TAS setting, due to us ending on the last input, and the TAS would need to reach a definitive end point (i.e. credits) rather than the end point decided by RTA. The fact these inputs can be optimized away with a slightly different glitch I'd argue clearly brings them into the category of gameplay and thus timesave here counts.
The method used is known as "old ACE", is an emulator glitch, and is caused by old Gambatte overlooking opcodes that would crash console. It crashes on emulator too now (I believe, but I digress).
The Zelda speedrunning community ran it for ages until they realized it was a Gambatte bug
GSR = GambatteSpeedrun
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I just thought I was rambling but I guess I'm onto something!
ThunderAxe31: This movie is well optimized and the reaction from the audience was very warm.
While the movie itself is good and the goal is clear, I have to make a remark about the current branching situation for this game, for the purpose of giving reference for future judgments. As of today, there is a known way to beat the game faster than in this submitted movie, that is by using a memory corrupting glitch. So while the current "warp glitch" publication is flagged as the fastest-completion movie, this submitted movie should not get flagged as such, despite the fact that it beats it under the same rules.
Accepting as Moons for obsoleting the current "warp glitch" publication.
Whatever or not a movie using the memory corrupting glitch should obsolete this, it will be duly discussed after that such hypothetical movie gets submitted, as we can't judge a submission that doesn't (yet) exist.
My opinion would be label this "arbitrary code execution" and leave the other one as is but I respect whatever the judge wants to do. I just feel the new label is very vague.
Apparently the label isn't used much anymore and I see other ACE games with "game end glitch" labels, so whatever is fine. I do think it would be exciting to bring that label back though because now it's so vague. Not to mention it's always on top of runs that you visually can't see what is going on to make it all possible, i.e. my run, [2751] SNES Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island "game end glitch" by Masterjun in 01:17.54, or several others. But I suppose now that's insinuating re-inventing the wheel rather than using an old label. Whatever works best for the site!
Speedrun.com has "Any% ACE" and "Any% No ACE" and both are very popular
As for the case of obsoletion, that's something I don't feel one way or another about, it's apples and oranges. Mine is the faster glitched run, but I also think they're both so different that it's exciting to have both.
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Also curious about the label change. It is executing arbitrary code (hence why I gave it that label many other runs share), albeit a short amount of it. No fancy payload or anything, but it's still arbitrary code execution. The large write-up about it can be seen in the description. I'm not sure if "game end glitch" does it justice and I think it fits in better with the former label as it explains the weird setup of the file names, killing the 3 enemies, talking to the child, the pause screen, and more. Not just the doghouse glitch (which some people may confuse it as simply abusing a basic glitch or warp and this is one of those runs where you NEED to read the notes), and also encourages them to read the publication notes and view the code and detailed explanation.
Either way is fine with me though!
In that case, there is a different publication this may obsolete then (I don't necessarily feel one way or another if it should or not), however that's classified "warp glitch", I suppose before the labels became more standardized.[4084] GBC The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX "warp glitch" by TwistedTammer in 05:13.06It should be noted that one is perhaps a "game end glitch", as it abuses bugs but does not execute code.
Edit: Ignore strikes, I forgot "warp glitch" was also a standard label. I guess "game end glitch" being if the glitch is the last thing before the credits. Actually indeed it is, referring to feos's comments on my #8021: BLiNX_PERSON, OtakuTAS & ViGadeomes's GBC Toy Story 2 "warp glitch" in 01:29.82
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