Here's the planned route as of right now. I still need to go through and test it.
Ordon Gate clip
Back in Time
Save/Reset
Lantern
Goats
Iron Boots
Sewers/Hyrule Castle Twilight
Sword and Shield Skip (dig up rupees here)
Open S. Faron Portal
Skip Vessel
Skip Tears
Enter N. Faron
EMS
Warp back to S. Faron
Back to N. Faron
EMS again (fight skip since we no longer need this portal)
Enter Forest Temple under Twilight
Up to Gale Boomerang
Save/Reset
Warp to S. Faron
Forest Escape
Mailman Skip
Open Kakariko Gorge Portal (Midna forces you to warp here)
Warp to S. Faron
Forest Escape Again
Mailman Skip Again
Zombie Hover
LJA Across Gorge
Enter Kakariko (walk around KB1 Trigger)
Clear Eldin Twilight (necessary to finish clearing Lanayru Twilight)(We also need to manipulate rupee drops here without wasting time)
Warp to S. Faron
Forest Escape #3 (lol)
Lanayru Gate Clip
Drop into Lake Hylia
Rupee Dive into Lakebed
Save/Reset
Lakebed up until Ooccoo
Ooccoo out
Finish Lanayru Twilight (howl here?)
Warp to Zora's Domain
Steal Iza's Bomb Bag (howl here?)
Back to Stalactite Room
Empty Bomb Bag on Waterfall
10 water bombs
LJA through Lakebed to Deku Toad [WB: 9]
Deku Toad w/ Water Bombs [WB: 6]
Backtrack to Staircase Room
Warp out w/ Ooccoo
warp to Zora's Domain
Goron Bomb Bag [WB: 5]
rocket link [WB: 4] (Equip G BBag and Clawshot)
Map Glitch
G. BBag empty partial in Cave when clawshotting vines
Empty more before Shadow Beast fight
Snowboarding (Get every rupee here)
Western Route through Snowpeak Ruins (empty bag here too)
Freezard Skip
Ball and Chain (Good place for emptying here as well since you have to wait on Dark Hammer initially)
Return to Lakebed via Ooccoo
vine clip on Goron Bag (Save 2 bombs for Stalfos in Arbiter's Grounds)
Morpheel w/ Lent Bag [WB: 2]
Lent Bag Disappears
Midna's Desperate Hour (rupees here if needed)
warp to Lake Hylia
Auru's Memo
Red Rupee on Fyer's House if needed
Canon to Gerudo Desert
Boar Skip via Ball and Chain
Small Key Skip in Gerudo Ruins (ideally)
Arbiter's Ground up to Spinner (80 rupees from Re-dead Knights)
Save/Reset
Stallord
Open Mirror Chamber Portal
Skip Raising Mirror Trick
City in the Sky Early
Fix Canon (20 rupees on Fyer's House again if necessary)
Water Bomb chest in City in the Sky
CitS up to Double Clawshots
Save/Reset
Finish CitS
Warp to Mirror Chamber
Palace of Twilight (Water Zant w/ Water Bombs from CitS)
Warp to Castle Town
Get Ending Blow
Warp to Castle Town Again
Mailman Skip
Octopus Midna Eats The Barrier
Barrier Skips in Hyrule Castle
Save/Reset after King Bulblin
Final Barrier Skip
Dark Nut #1
Dinalfos with Water Bomb
Boss Key
Final Lizalfos/Dinalfos/Dark Nuts
Final Battle
Notes:
- Need to see whether the optimal time to howl at the Upper Zora's River stone is during Lanayru Twilight, before you talk to Iza, or after you talk to Iza. The best decision is probably run around the hill right before Iza, howl at the stone, then run behind the sign and transform, then talk to her.
- Also, if ending blow is needed to speed up the end of the Morpheel & Argorok fights, it would be better to get it as soon as possible. This doesn't cost an extra warp because getting ending blow warps you to North Faron anyway.
- Howling stone in Lake Hylia is a bad idea because of what was previously mentioned.
Will edit as I think of more stuff.
EDIT: Just thought of the best time to get ending blow: after midna's desperate hour. You're literally right by it and no warps will be wasted because we have to warp to Lake Hylia anyway.
More Stuff:
Since we don't need tears, it's probably faster to save warp/kill ourselves after Master Sword to get back to N. Faron (as if we were doing fixed EMS).
In case anyone is wondering why this works on 1.0 and 1.1 only....
15:46:59 <sockfolder> it seems the eyeball frog thing is basically straight up fixed in 1.2
15:47:18 <sockfolder> the code is actually reasonable
15:47:44 <sockfolder> set a flag on the dialog when showing prescription, clear said flag at the start of zora tunic dialog
15:48:05 <sockfolder> use that flag to decide which item to give
15:48:13 <sockfolder> I don't see a way to trick it
15:48:17 <pheenoh> Do you know why it works in 1.0,1.1
15:48:18 <Wodahs> damn
15:48:28 <sockfolder> the code is totally different in 1.0
15:48:50 <sockfolder> and hilariously bad =p
15:48:51 <pheenoh> I know, I just meant do you know why the collection delay (if that's even it) causes eyeball frog
15:49:00 <sockfolder> yeah
15:49:04 <sockfolder> I mean sorta
15:49:25 <sockfolder> when you stand in the interaction area for kz
15:49:30 <sockfolder> (where you can talk to him)
15:49:41 <sockfolder> it sets a flag every frame
15:49:53 <sockfolder> if you have a trade items < eyeball frog
15:50:14 <sockfolder> when you talk for zora tunic, the flag is cleared
15:50:32 <sockfolder> and if no normal gameplay happens, the flag stays clear until you get zora tunic
15:51:07 <sockfolder> if you delay receiving the item though, then the flag gets set again
15:51:19 <qwerty1605> so they reason this doesn't work on 1.2 is because it is coded completely different?
15:51:20 <sockfolder> and the game thinks you should get the eyeball frog
15:51:29 <sockfolder> yes
1.2 fixes being able to move right before receiving an item, so the flag doesn't get set again.
Improvements aren't made until someone comes up with alternatives
Or, you know, someone finds a new trick. Spider Waffle has been proved wrong and has a history of coming up with absurd ideas that didn't work, as well as trying to claim credit for things others have found. People don't dislike him because they're too lazy to prove him wrong, they dislike him because he's doesn't know what he's talking about lol.
VanillaCoke wrote:
What happens if you win with the brown rental horse at Lon Lon Ranch?
I can't remember if Ingo will even let you actually race with one of the brown horses, but if he does, I'm pretty sure they're too slow to actually beat him. Beating him triggers a cutscene where he mentions Epona, so I'm pretty sure you can't even race him.
As far as I know the max spin attacks you can get in at that point is 6 before he disappears, and he needs 7 hits at that point, so yeah. Maybe there's some weird timing that lets you get 7 hits without the heart.
Though getting the heart is probably faster than doing another spin attack anyway. It'd be neat to see a TAS get all four hearts and hit him four times at once, heh. Not sure you can get all four without losing time though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8BqlEd2SSA
He only takes 6 spin attacks here; maybe the extra jumpslash added to the damage? Either way this is possible without grabbing the heart.
Copypasta from SDA.
SPR right after clawshot won't work unless you can dig up a bunch of luck rupees. Also the first line of that should be 'SPR after MDH'. I'll write out full detailed routes of both and the differences if anyone is interested.
Having to get 4 deku sticks made it significantly slower to skip sword.
Are you just assuming that, or is there good evidence complete with semi-accurate timings to support that margin of victory is greater than margin or error?
This reminds me last time I tried show everyone swordless was faster. Let's not blindly assume things until some math has been done please.
There's no point in timing it because it's obviously much slower. The only reason no one has objected this is because they're ignoring you.
That's exactly what everyone said about bean skip to get up to gauntlets in desert temple. I argued bomb hover would be faster and showed the 1st grade math to prove it. Years later people figured out I was right all along.
ZFG proved this was faster long before you did. No one did it because we had no good methods for getting to the seam. The only thing you can take credit for is trying to take credit for what others said and tested. Stop trying to fool yourself.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Open minds, 1st grade math, and basic logic is how you plan good speedruns.
Ahh, thanks. I should take more advice from the great Spider-Waffle, seeing as how you've done so many speedruns yourself.
I won't bother continuing this; I'll just join everyone else in ignoring you.
Having to get 4 deku sticks made it significantly slower to skip sword.
Are you just assuming that, or is there good evidence complete with semi-accurate timings to support that margin of victory is greater than margin or error?
This reminds me last time I tried show everyone swordless was faster. Let's not blindly assume things until some math has been done please.
There's no point in timing it because it's obviously much slower. The only reason no one has objected this is because they're ignoring you.
So if it has to be redone starting from deku tree, why not also do the same method. Time it out if you need to, but it certainly should save a notable amount of time compared to skipping the sword.
I've managed to pull off that single cycle on the final phase quite a few times, you sure you have to pick up a heart? I mean I guess it's possible that's why but I've never noticed it; I always thought it just required extremely good timing.
When I placed two down another grew back some how(Glitch?), but I was never able to get it to do that again. I think we should just do the Yoshi clipper before everyones brains explode. It's simple and we already know how to work it.
You've already done a successful fruit clip on Episode 1, but now you're suggesting everyone just use a slower strategy? I don't understand your reasoning here.
Well since you're skipping Faron bugs the BiTE needs to be done in Lakebed after Kakariko Gorge. I dunno where the Ooccoo in Forest Temple is, but I think grabbing the one in Lakebed is gonna be faster since you actually need to return there later. After you warp out of Lakebed w/ Ooccoo you can just warp to north faron and do the BiTE there by doing an LJA out of bounds. That's probably also faster than starting a new file.
EDIT: You could test slingshot, hero's bow, Ball & chain (especially interested in this one) and clawshot damage if you'd like.
I already tested the first 3. I'll get back to you on clawshot.
edit: Clawshot did no damage to boomerang ape. Tried to test it on a random enemy, but i could not find it's hp in ram at all. The two bosses i tried were both very easy to find, even without knowing how much damage each attack did. I even tried searching 1 byte addresses, and still nothing.
Oh whoops, not sure how I missed that. None of the bosses/mini bosses are actually damaged by the clawshot, so it's probably 0 since that's what slingshot does as well. The only thing i can think of that are actually killed by the clawshot are keese, but you're not gonna find a static address for their HP anyway. Thanks for the info!
You could also test slash while walking forward with ordon/ms and wooden sword (lol) if you want. I'm fairly sure the walking forward slashes do less damage than standard slashes or thrusts.
