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primeElephant wrote:
This really deserves to be Stars in my opinion.
That would be an absolute honor. Now that it's been published, you can nominate it for Stars if you want
Edit: looks like you've been beaten to the punch! thank you to everyone who enjoyed the video and supported the star nomination, it's an honor
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I'm curious about the end credits softlock. Is a no airswim route faster than a route which uses airswim but detours and stops airswimming to set the end credits flag, then resumes airswimming? If the answer is "No", then that other route would be the fastest completion possible and therefore qualify for publication. I believe this route is eligible either way though.
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feos: I forgot to address this while judging, but we want to mention the actual internal name of the mode in the branch label, not something some people prefer to call it unofficially. fsvgm777 agrees.
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EZGames69 wrote:
Is there a movie file that completes the text after Pichu's stage? The Temp encode shows it being cleared but it doesnt get cleared with the submitted file. If it was uploaded somewhere then I can't find it.
I don't have a movie file that reaches the text, but you can use the submission file and mash A at any speed (up to and including 30 Hz) starting when Pichu's COMPLETE is displayed (or even starting when the submission file ends). Pressing A at the initial coordinates of the CSS does nothing, so this doesn't even need to be stopped once you get there.
Let me know if you'd like a dtm instead.
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fsvgm777 wrote:
TASVideoAgent wrote:
Dropping, because I'm running into graphics issues on OpenGL (which aren't present on D3D11), and dumping on D3D11 results in a completely broken dump for me.
Oh, I know how to fix this. Set the resolution of the window to the exact output resolution you want, and in Graphics set aspect ratio to "Stretch to Window".
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So I have a new problem, and it's a very good problem to have. I've found a 4-frame improvement on Peach's stage with a different item order/timing, which means that I'm going to have to redo my RNG manipulation for the entire run from the start. On the bright side, this improvement brings us below the 2:40.00 IGT milestone for both combined and PAL-only WR sum, so the submission will be sub-2:40.
How should I proceed?
Edit: After discussion on discord, I'd like to request a delay to find an RNG seed for the new route. The improvement is here (done with a Gecko code): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5HEmEVlZWk
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Please don't make a new submission, the staff can replace the movie file of the current submission instead. You just need to upload your new movie file to the userfile storage: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/my#upload
Yes, that was what I meant. Wrong terminology.
I also have a bit of an awkward situation on my hands. I developed a new Marth route which takes advantage of NTSC Marth's higher air speed and in the process found a damage boost with NTSC Marth that's actually the same speed as PAL. So, it turns out that NTSC Marth is actually 2 frames faster than PAL now, which means that the version differences are as follows:
Sheik - PAL 2f faster
Kirby - PAL 2f faster
Mario - NTSC 3f faster
Marth - NTSC 2f faster
Thus it appears that a version difference may be needed. However, I don't have an NTSC verification movie or the scripts required to perform this immediately (though I can get the latter set up reasonably quickly). Additionally, I most likely need to find a new seed that completes Sheik (as there's basically a 1/9 chance that the current one still does). What do you all recommend I do?
Edit: crisis averted, I missed an optimization in PAL Mario which means that Mario is actually equal speed in PAL and NTSC. PAL reigns supreme again.
Edit 2: Ok, I have uploaded a userfile. Please replace the submission file with this: [deleted]
Edit 3: There was an error in the userfile, please use this one instead: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/73038110347467333
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Thank you to Mothrayas and fsvgm777 for confirming sync again.
I will have to resubmit however as I've found a 1 frame improvement for Marth. I will continue to check in case that isn't the last frame I find, and will keep you all posted.
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Shouldn't the label get changed to "All-Star Mode, pacifist"? 🤔
This was discussed on Discord and it was noted that pacifist is usually first if there are multiple descriptors in the branch name. See http://tasvideos.org/Movies-Moons-C2005N.html
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andypanther wrote:
I have a question, though: Would it be feasible to get the "Switzerland" bonus on every fight?
I'd say it's possible, but likely slower and less entertaining. On top of losing the ability to taunt (which admittedly may be a Luigi-only issue, since his is the only taunt with a hitbox), you'd also be unable to perform any of his special moves or clank with any opponent's hits.
Fights that don't achieve Switzerland, and how they would be adapted ("would require additional RNG manipulation" is assumed for all):
1. Marth: could reasonably replace the down-b with wavedashes
4. Yoshi: could potentially replace the down-b with wavedashes, but may need the back-up strat of waiting 5-10 seconds for Randall the cloud
6. Ganon/Luigi: would need to travel past Ganon rather than under the stage; Luigi KO would be less visually interesting unless an alternate strat involving them missing the low platform is found
8. Ness/Zelda: would need to replace clanks with more powershields or additional movement while waiting for the car
10. Mario/Fox/Pikachu: would be unable to manipulate CPUs using down-b (Fox and Pikachu airdodge to avoid the attack, syncing them up with Mario to make the triple KO possible). Possible speed loss.
12. Ice Climbers/Samus/Donkey Kong: could likely replace down-b with more jumping.
13. Mr. Game & Watch x25: could replace all clanks and specials with powershields or movement.
So on the whole I'd say yes, but likely at a cost to entertainment value due to increased repetition.
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Mothrayas wrote:
PracticalTAS wrote:
Ah, this all makes sense, thanks. Another possibility re Dr. Mario could be that vanilla Dolphin is assuming the dtm contains ~2 polls per frame rather than Lua Dolphin's ~4 polls. That would explain how it could get to the character select screen before desyncing with a longer upward movement than normal, as this is the first point in the dtm where duplicating inputs on consecutive frames would cause a desync. You could verify this by checking whether the menuing is slower than in your encode.
The input polls are read from the dtm the same way, otherwise it wouldn't have been possible to sync the movie at all. It's just some difference with the 60Hz prompt that's causing the input to be shifted. Once that difference is negated, it just syncs as normal.
PracticalTAS wrote:
Also, I just noticed something in your encode that I also caught in mine after uploading: the aspect ratio appears to be squished vertically by about 10% (based on Luigi's shield, a perfect sphere, being rendered as an ellipse). This hasn't occurred in my NTSC encodes. I believe this can be fixed by changing the Aspect Ratio setting in Dolphin's Graphics menu to "Stretch to Window" and manually resizing the playback window to Melee's 73:60 (ie 584x480 at vanilla resolution).
Yeah, the encode was recorded at a 4:3 aspect ratio. Since it was just a quick temporary encode, I didn't bother adjusting it.
Gotcha. Thanks again for doing the encode, and thanks as well to fsvgm777 for confirming sync too.
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Mothrayas wrote:
PracticalTAS wrote:
Wow, I was not expecting it to sync on vanilla Dolphin. Awesome.
Dolphin Lua Core uses Dolphin 5.0 as a base, without any changes to emulation itself that I know of, so any valid run made on Dolphin Lua Core should sync on Dolphin 5.0 as well (but it's good to confirm just to be sure)
PracticalTAS wrote:
It might also be beneficial to make MemoryCardA.EUR.raw read-only, so you don't have to restore it from the backup each time you run the submission dtm. You will get a 'could not write memory card file' error the first time the game tries to save after each boot, which can be safely ignored.
I believe this step should not be necessary if all the prompts are played out in step 2; and if this step is performed, perhaps the memory card backup should be created after it, not before it.
The steps were just to make sure that you get memory card data that's compatible with the TAS - once the memory card data is confirmed to work it can be set to read-only, but only after that is confirmed.
PracticalTAS wrote:
If every single selection including the first is Dr. Mario, then somehow the RNG seed wasn't initialized and isn't getting updated; I've never seen that before. If multiple selections occur until it gets to Dr. Mario, at which point it repeatedly selects him, that's a weird desync - I am alternating pressing A and B, and this can be duplicated by ignoring all the A presses. Perhaps if the 60 Hz prompt is not selected, the game is polling different inputs within a given frame?
No, I mean the input desyncs and the cursor moves all the way to Dr. Mario's portrait instead of the random select area. It has nothing to do with the RNG. And it would desync because some part of the 60Hz prompt takes a different amount of time to go away, thus causing desyncs with the menu input.
Ah, this all makes sense, thanks. Another possibility re Dr. Mario could be that vanilla Dolphin is assuming the dtm contains ~2 polls per frame rather than Lua Dolphin's ~4 polls. That would explain how it could get to the character select screen before desyncing with a longer upward movement than normal, as this is the first point in the dtm where duplicating inputs on consecutive frames would cause a desync. You could verify this by checking whether the menuing is slower than in your encode.
Also, I just noticed something in your encode that I also caught in mine after uploading: the aspect ratio appears to be squished vertically by about 10% (based on Luigi's shield, a perfect sphere, being rendered as an ellipse). This hasn't occurred in my NTSC encodes. I believe this can be fixed by changing the Aspect Ratio setting in Dolphin's Graphics menu to "Stretch to Window" and manually resizing the playback window to Melee's 73:60 (ie 584x480 at vanilla resolution).
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Thank you all for your votes and comments!
Mothrayas wrote:
I've been able to sync this TAS on a clean Dolphin 5.0 (vanilla) install.
Wow, I was not expecting it to sync on vanilla Dolphin. Awesome.
3) Make a backup of your MemoryCardA.EUR.raw and SRAM.raw files inside your Dolphin's User/GC folder. (Optional, but recommended so you don't need to run the verification file again in case something goes wrong)
It might also be beneficial to make MemoryCardA.EUR.raw read-only, so you don't have to restore it from the backup each time you run the submission dtm. You will get a 'could not write memory card file' error the first time the game tries to save after each boot, which can be safely ignored.
4) Start up the game, select the 60Hz option when prompted, let any remaining prompts play out (if not done in step 2), wait for the save symbol to disappear at the main menu, then close the game.
I believe this step should not be necessary if all the prompts are played out in step 2; and if this step is performed, perhaps the memory card backup should be created after it, not before it.
I've noticed that sometimes the movie desyncs at the start and fails to select random characters during the initial setup (instead it selects Dr. Mario repeatedly) - this seems to be related to the 60Hz option prompt, I'm not sure what exactly causes it. In this case, run step 4 again, then retry. If something else was saved in game, that might also cause potential sync issues - in this case, replace the memory card files with the backups from step 3.
If every single selection including the first is Dr. Mario, then somehow the RNG seed wasn't initialized and isn't getting updated; I've never seen that before. If multiple selections occur until it gets to Dr. Mario, at which point it repeatedly selects him, that's a weird desync - I am alternating pressing A and B, and this can be duplicated by ignoring all the A presses after the first. Perhaps if the 60 Hz prompt is not selected, the game is polling different inputs within a given frame?
I've made an unedited temporary encode of this run (unlisted on YouTube):
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Thank you for the very quick reply! I have a fifth question that I tried to edit in, but it looks like you got to the first four before I could add it, so I'll move it down here:
5) Controller polling in Melee is decoupled from the game engine, which greatly complicates the act of writing a TAS if a fix in the form of a gecko code is not applied. The completed DTM can be modified to reverse the effect of the fix (and has been console verified to sync). Would tasvideos have an issue with a submission that has been written with a gecko code active, then modified afterward to sync without requiring the gecko code?
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Hi, I have a few questions about a potential future submission for Super Smash Bros Melee. The submission would be for completion of every character's Target Test stage.
1) Almost half of Melee's 25 characters must be unlocked, sometimes requiring up to several hours of playtime. Could a valid DTM submission be started with a non-empty memory card that has unlocked all characters?
2) Several characters take advantage of a glitch that is activated by playing through part of the first level of a different game mode. The total time spent playing through this level is larger than the time saved by the glitch, but Target Test is a collection of 25 individual levels which are individually timed using the in-game timer. Could a submission primarily targeting minimum in-game time (with a secondary goal of minimizing submission length in total frames) be accepted?
3) Similarly, 5 of the 25 characters depend on RNG for their individual level world record times, and RNG would similarly be needed to minimize the time spent menuing (as the fastest possible way for the player to select any character is with random select - random select is closer to the character selection cursor's starting point than every character is). If a strategy forces a tradeoff between minimum in-game time and minimum submission length (say if iterating the RNG seed to get to a seed that enables the optimal in-game time costs more frames than the optimal in-game time saves over a strategy that doesn't depend on RNG), does tasvideos have a preference on which strategy is to be used?
4) Most individual levels do not have accurate re-record counts, as a) players improving on others' records do not iterate on the previous record holder's DTMs, and b) newer records are generally created on a hacked version of Melee with (among other things) debug mode access, then the final inputs are applied to a vanilla version of the game, and we have not kept records of re-record counts on the hacked version. Would the lack of an accurate re-record count negatively impact the submission?
