Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
fsvgm777 wrote:
I'm completely mystified by the presence of the SIERRA.INF file that isn't present on several locations I got the game from. Moreover, I seemingly can't create the file from the game itself.
.INF files are not used by the AGI game engine, so this can safely be ignored or deleted.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
One of my earlier posts has a list of where exactly guards can appear, I think you're safe in the room with the broken door.
And yes, having the spider for a shorter time makes manipulation easier. The timer is determined at random when you first leave the pod to room 30.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
DrD2k9 wrote:
If c-square is able to Lua control the skimmer sequence for a specific number of random calls, then we can theoretically calculate an initial RTC time that will yield a good range of RNG seeds for the slots when we arrive there. Then we can use the spreadsheet of return-values to destroy the slots as fast as possible. Firing the phaser at nothing can help with Sarien guards after losing Roger's helmet.
Yes, that is correct.
Firing the phaser is possibly slower than typing <N> <enter> though.
Are we concerned with also trying to set the initial RTC time to avoid guards on the Arcada? There's only a couple screens where it should impact.
I think we should be. The relevant guard has a 50% chance to show up, so that's straightforward to manipulate.
Are we worried about the spider droid?
Yes, because his movement is random. While he is on screen, he will generate calls to the random() function.
Question: if you take an existing run and alter the RTC time, does it still sync? I would expect it may desync at the guard in logic 7 (50% of the time), or at the skimmer sequence (obviously) but not at other spots; is that correct?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
DrD2k9 wrote:
These are hilarious. Unfortunately not all can be used due to time constraints, but any that I can get on the screen for any length of time I will!
Great, happy to help :) I suppose that the now-cancelled run can give me an idea of where these time constraints are for commands in later parts of the game?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
Looking good!
A nice screenshot may be the second swamp room with the monster chasing you, simply because it shouldn't be possible to survive that. Although the monster is not very visible, I suppose. Otherwise, have a shot in the endgame where you're perilously close to that zapper robot.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
Arcada control room.
(1) Push these out of the airlock.
(2) The press is all that is left.
(3) A little push for me, old sir, right?
(4) Rob is flashing another sarien uniform.
(5) A little swipe now at the translator.
Shuttle bay
(1) Push for third base now, I guess.
(2) I stand now under the little rocket.
(3) Push me over to the second power.
(4) First from the press, autopilot is in.
(5) Shut up, out of the door with you!
(6) The buckle is flashing on that belt.
(7) Move now to throttle me for a second.
Kerona
(1) Will you pick me for a little survival.
(2) Another open second, out of supplies.
(3) Get down for the belt will please you.
(4) Get off first, craft a little for you.
(5) I pick up that hunk from the mirror.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
DrD2k9 wrote:
(Although I must admit, I'm going to miss seeing the root maze in the final run.)
That's a good reason to do a 100% run then :)
I'm hoping I can blow the whistle and immediately leave the screen and come back to have the hole in the boulder without having to watch the animation of the beast arriving.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
DrD2k9 wrote:
I'll check into these things. At the given speed setting, I couldn't get back into the cracked tunnel to hide without the robot catching me.
Maybe you could swap speeds.
What is the other solution for the terror beast? The puzzle is the only one I know of and I can't find anything on another option.
Leave the screen then return.
You're right...I'm still new enough to TASing that I don't always think about how to entertain during these kind of sequences.
Type tired old memes into the command line. People love tired old memes. :D
Oh, and if you're considering cancelling this, I should mention that Roger's random movement in the first room can probably be manipulated by setting the system time.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
c-square wrote:
When I was talking about a frame, I meant the JPC-rr frame. Do you mean the same thing? If not, is there a way we can know when what you're referring to as a frame is going to happen next?
Not necessarily, no. If I recall correctly, AGI games run at 12 frames per second, whereas JPC-rr can be set to whatever you want.
Point is, AGI has a fixed speed for how often per second it updates the game state. This should not be hard to measure.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
c-square wrote:
As for the v6 issue, it'd be helpful to know when the Ticks happen. I'm pretty sure it's not one Tick each frame. Is there a variable that can be used to track Ticks?
Each tick is one frame of updating the game state, yes.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
FractalFusion wrote:
- Getting the keycard: You don't need to get the keycard off the dead guard at the crashed hovercraft. I think it is faster to get the keycard from the platform guard if you stone him, especially in your TAS where he falls right in front of the door (if you lure him down, you don't even need a keycard).
I'm pretty sure that using the slingshot is fastest, as it involves the least waiting for the guard to move. Oddly enough, this guard only carries a keycard if you don't have the one from earlier.
timing of some events seems a little different in JPC-rr (as opposed to DOSBox), so it could simply not be possible on JPC-rr.
If the timing is different then that would be an emulation bug; I don't think that is the case here. That said, there's nothing in the script stopping you from leaving the room before the cracking animation completes (which kills you), assuming it can be done fast enough.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
Something else that came to mind.
Almost all words in the game have synonyms, sometimes lots of them, and sometimes really weird ones. On the one hand this means that several commands can probably be typed shorter; however I don't think that's actually going to save time (however, 'lever' is a synonym for 'throttle' in case it helps). On the other hand, if you have extra time, it does mean that you can type in commands in the most ridiculous way possible.
For instance, instead of "get keycard", "swipe every credit card" is a valid input. "Put keycard in slot" can be written as "fill credit card from slot machine". A next command may be "press inside from first airlock". "Get up please, rock me now" is recognized. And so forth. It's silly, but if it wastes no time... :D
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
Very interesting, looks like a great run.
To confirm your suspicions, it is not possible to navigate the maze without the gem; Roger can't move until you are able to see something (his sprite isn't even placed in the room...) Also, the whole shuttle sequence appears to be on a non-manipulatable timer. I don't believe it's possible to speed this up. I suggest typing in random stuff on the command line to entertain the player through this boring sequence (what is it with Sierra and non-skippable cutscenes, anyway?)
Some suggestions... disabling the alarm on the crashed shuttle alters the timer for the other shuttle in the room with the two big trees. This means you can possibly skip him entirely by disabling the alarm, saving some time. Once the Labion terror beast is present, you can deal with him by leaving the room to the left and reentering; he'll be gone; this may be faster than tossing the puzzle, or maybe not since you cannot blow the whistle from within the water. Finally, when the escape pod robot starts chasing you, you can hide out in the tunnel you came from, instead of the tunnel to the far right. This may be faster too?
FWIW I would be happy to see a 100% run of this game.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
DrD2k9 wrote:
Radiant wrote:
v6 is the direction EGO is moving in. 0 for still, 1 for up, 3 for right, 5 for down, 7 for left.
So every time we stop the skimmer, it calls that section of code?
Every tick that the skimmer is not moving horizontally, there's a one-in-nine chance of its shadow jumping three pixels down. So random() is called each tick for that. Except that if it jumps down, it will not call random() on the next tick, and instead have it jump up again. This is visual only and doesn't affect anything else; it's easy to spot in the video if you know it's there.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
c-square wrote:
Unfortunately, it only works up to 'Fast'. At 'Fastest', the rocks come too quickly to dodge. Tomorrow I'll work at upgrading it to look at the upcoming rng seeds to anticipate the rocks instead of just looking at the existing rock positions. The hardest part of that will be figuring out when the random in this bit of code is called:
v6 is the direction EGO is moving in. 0 for still, 1 for up, 3 for right, 5 for down, 7 for left.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
Mothrayas wrote:
Radiant wrote:
Sure, but that was 2.5 years ago.
No relevant rule has changed since then.
Obviously that's the point: we're suggesting that a relevant rule be changed. Stating that it has not so far been changed is not much of a counterargument :)
The games you mention, like Mario Party, are not board game adaptations, they are video games first and foremost.
Well, that's a good distinction; it would help if the Vault rules page actually mentioned that. It seems that the rule against board games hasn't been updated in years.
Sure, but that was 2.5 years ago. Also, that discussion is primarily about reworking the tier system, and only secondarily about board games. Clearly one can allow board games without having to change the tier system.
Mothrayas wrote:
Me neither - if, like those runs you quote, a Mahjong TAS can make it to Moons, I'll gladly support it.
There are four boardgame runs in the Vault. I see no reason why the vault should have a clause agaist board games (other than perhaps two-player non-random board games like chess).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
Considering we already have two Monopoly runs and a Clue run, I see no problem with a Mahjong run either.
It strikes me that the rule against board games was written because chess TAS'es mainly focus on breaking a poorly written AI, and this rule hasn't considered the plethora of other board games that aren't chess or checkers or go.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
DrD2k9 wrote:
Bummer it appears that we can't avoid the spider. Do you think we could we delay it's arrival until we get to the east portion of the mesa? If so, I wonder if the dialogue would show up if we made it underground before the spider lands and sprouts legs.
Yes that would block the dialogue; but no I don't think it's possible to make it there in time. (edit) check the random() call at the top of logic 30, that's the one you're looking for. But the maximum is only a few seconds more than the minimum.
c-square wrote:
One thing I noticed was that in your run, you were able to do small movements and stop in the middle. How did you do that? I'm finding I can only go all the way over to one side or all the way over to the other. I can't stop in the middle or do short adjustments.
Tap the direction button once to start moving, once more to stop. Do not hold it down.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
A thought. Would it be interesting to make a 100% run of this game, by which I mean full score? In this particular game it doesn't require a lot of detours. I think you just need to grab the cartridge in the second room, use it in the alien nest, drop the rock on the spider, and talk to a few Sariens while in disguise, and you'd be at max score. This also gives you the good ending, i.e. your planet doesn't die at the end.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
Radiant wrote:
West to logic 4, which calls random() again upon entry. As long as you're on the top floor, you're safe. There's a 21% chance of a patrol appearing on the bottom; it may be fun to manipulate this happening, because many players don't know that this can occur.
Wait, forget about this. Due to a coding bug, the guards cannot show up in logic 4.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
Spider droid.
Ok, this took some research. Here's the thing: the spider is a timed event. When you first leave the escape pod (logic 30), random() is called to generate a value 130 to 250. This value, plus 6 x 252, equals the amount of clock ticks until the spider appears. I do see that if the spider appears, and you leave the room before the message pops up, the message will appear in the next room; so the message can't be avoided.
Can the spider be avoided? Probably not. Even if your current run had the minimum delay value, you wouldn't be able to make it to the end of the mesa before the maximum value caused it to appear anyway. The countdown is halted inside Orat's room. The spider can't appear in the upper left room since the lower level isn't seen from there, but it'll simply appear in the next one. Flags 156 and 157 do halt the countdown, but they aren't set anywhere in these rooms.
