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So if I understand correctly, you luck manipulate the game into letting you steal the final quest item from a first-level random encounter? Wow! Yes vote.
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jlun2 wrote:
I think if that were to happen, said bug must be investigated further so as to not jump the gun (like what happens when we declare a movie as "perfect" :P).
Yes, I agree. I note that we have two Genesis movies that are console-verified; perhaps the best approach here would be to have a console-verification bot play this Gods run?
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Are you actually playing tetris with peasants? :D
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Mothrayas wrote:
And since in SotN, it is the fastest ending that is actually acknowledged as an ending that entails beating the game, it is redundant to mention it.
For what it's worth, seven different FAQ authors each individually call it one of the game's four endings (five if you count Richter's), and none of them call it a game over. Anyway let's get some other peoples' opinions in here.
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There are indeed games where defeating the boss wrongly gives you a game over (e.g. Streets of Rage III). However, SOTN's game over looks like this whereas its bad and good endings both look like this; so I don't agree that its bad ending is a "glorified game over". So yes, I think it makes sense to tag these two runs as "good ending". This is similar to [1917] Windows Cave Story "best ending" by nitsuja in 50:10.30 (Cave Story which also has three endings, with speedrunners generally going for the best one).
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Here are the graphics. The bad ending has the same "castle exploding" sequence as the good one, just different dialogue. You are correct that the best ending is 196% (which also looks the same as the bad ending, but with different dialogue).
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MrWint wrote:
You're right, the goal requirements are arbitrary,
I'll wait with voting until I see the encode, but I'm not generally in favor of runs with arbitrary goals. If the endgame credits play twice, doesn't that mean that beating the Elite Four means you've won the game, and that beating Red is the good ending, or a bonus boss? I'd say that if you're going for speed, anything that triggers the credits counts as a win; and if you're not going for speed, you'd need to make it an interesting playaround.
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Please at least add this to Gruefood Delight.
Post subject: Re: let's go older
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CoolKirby wrote:
That branch name was decided on by a group of actual SMW TASers, and it seems to solve the naming problem we were having before. Why should it be changed?
The name works for me, but the movie description might be expanded a bit to explain how this is different from the world record branch.
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feos wrote:
Alright, after what was done to Super Metroid, I can try making up a guideline for branching that wasn't thought of before Moons appeared.
4. The "world record" fastest branch gets no branch label. 5. Generally speaking it would be good to label branches after what other goals they set beyond completing the game (e.g. "all gems", "no warping", "best ending", "no out of bounds" etc); except of course where such names would become overly complex (e.g. the hypothetical "no foo glitch, no bar glitch, no xyzzy, no tapdancing" runs mentioned earlier in the thread). I Have No stROng OpiNiOn on capitalizaton, really.
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For one thing, it's important to note that while it's possible to make a movie with a really complicated set of criteria (e.g. "uses glitch X but not glitch Y, and warps past level P but not level Q"), such movies are highly likely to be rejected because they have an arbitrary goal. Furthermore, it is (obviously) still possible for a new movie to obsolete an old one. For example, suppose the new Foo Glitch is found for game Bar, and a run is made; then instead of renaming all existing runs of Bar to "no Foo Glitch", it is likely that this new run will obsolete an existing run (and that the other existing runs are open to being obsoleted by a faster run with the foo glitch, if and when it is made). The branch name is not, and was never intended to be, an enumeration of every single glitch or trick that isn't used in that branch. Furthermore, it is not the goal of the site to have a separate branch for each possible permutation of glitches ("A but not B", "A and B but not C", "C but not A" and so forth).
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Feos, you literally said just a few days ago that you also agree. I really don't understand any more what (if anything) you have a problem with here.
feos wrote:
Warp, I agree with you in everything
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We appear to have general agreement for what Warp wrote earlier, i.e.
Warp wrote:
I think it would a good idea to name publications in a consistent manner. In other words, either: game in time by author or: game "alternative branch" in time by author The first form would indicate the "official world record" version, ie. the fastest completion of the game by any means, within the rules of the site. The second form would be any other TAS of the same game. The branch name in quotation marks always uniquely and unambiguously defines that particular branch (such as "100%", etc.) and its presence indicates that it's not the "default" WR. (It wouldn't be impossible for an alternate branch to be actually faster than the "official WR". It just means that it uses something that disqualifies it from being the official WR, eg. starting from a savestate.) It ought to be possible to have only "alternative branch" TASes, without an official WR (iow. there is no version of the TAS without a branch name in its name.) This would be the case with games for which completion speed is ill-defined or otherwise considered irrelevant. Descriptive tags ought to be limited to the movie classes.
As I recall, there were only a handful of movies on the site that don't already fit this schema. Shall we proceed with picking a good name for these?
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FractalFusion wrote:
I have de-embedded all images from rphaven.org in posts. I have also removed the avatars of the two users who use images from rphaven.org, and sent PMs.
Thank you for your help!
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amaurea wrote:
[*]Not future-proof: Once new glitches are discovered that let you achieve the same thing, the categories need renaming.
This keeps being brought up but it's not actually true, as discussed earlier in the thread.
[*]Unclear to non-experts: As Potato Stomper mentioned, the categories are not as easy to interpret for casual viewers as our previous system.
It strikes me that a term like "warpless" or "walkathon" is much clearer to a non-expert than "glitched" (which, to the non-expert simply means "uses a glitch"). For that matter, this thread proves that even experts cannot reach agreement on what "glitched" is supposed to mean, so it's quite possibly the most unclear tag mentioned in this thead. Also, this bears repeating, emphasis mine
CoolKirby wrote:
By the way, there are only two movies on this site out of almost 2500 that spell out two specific glitches avoided, so it really isn't a big problem as people make it out to be.
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Warp wrote:
Yeah. It could have a branch name like "playaround" (to indicate that it's not a speed record.) ... The fastest completion gets no branch name, and the other an appropriate name that distinguishes it from the fastest one (ie. describes in one or a few words why it's different from the fastest one.) If you want a better opinion, please give a concrete example.
Good, I agree with that.
thatguy wrote:
This sounds like a great idea in theory, and most people agree on this. The problem is that some of the "less glitched" runs ended up having horrible names.
I think the system works in general, but as you say there are a few runs that need discussion to get a less awkward name (on estimate, about a dozen or so out of the thousand+ runs on the site). This is probably best decided on a case-by-case basis, as with e.g. the recent Hyper Princess Pitch run.
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Warp wrote:
And to add to what I said: I think it ought to be possible to have only "alternative branch" TASes, without an official WR (iow. there is no version of the TAS without a branch name in its name.) This would be the case with games for which completion speed is ill-defined or otherwise considered irrelevant.
Would this be an example of what you mean? [1248] SNES Family Feud "playaround" by Heisanevilgenius in 06:46.71
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feos wrote:
It does not matter what way it (breaking the game) is done. Glitched is a run that breaks something in the game and forces it to admit it was completed while it wasn't.
...and that's not objectively defineable. For some of the runs you list, glitched means "skip the final boss". For others, it means "mess with the collection of plot coupons". For yet others, it means "skip midbosses but not the final boss". And for another game, it means "abuse game physics". These runs have basically nothing in common with each other. So the definition for glitched is "uses some glitches but not others". And while you might claim these movies are "absurdly boring to watch", our ratings disagree. Bottom line is that this is really not a term we should be using for runs. If by "glitched" you mean sequence breaking, as AIS suggests, then use the term sequence breaking. If you mean "memory corruption", as Jlun suggests, then call it memory corruption. (incidentally, TAS'ing a game has absolutely nothing to do with "soft hacking", which is a about breaking security protocols to obtain illegitimate access to data; yeah, that's really not a term we should be using for runs, either - many forms of hacking are a crime, and TAS'ing is clearly not :P )
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But this is TAS. Sequence breaking is normal for a TAS, and indeed any% runs use (and are expected to use) sequence breaking wherever possible. (edit) Here's the thing: why would we want to use the term "glitched" for sequence breaking? There's already a clearer and more straightforward term for sequence breaking, and that term is "sequence breaking".
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Spikestuff wrote:
Crash Bandicoot 2. Any% minimum level requirement Glitched% obtaining the minimum requirement in a level 100% max requirements
Well, I've never played this game so I'm really not sure what you mean, but it seems to me that your definition of "any%" here is the same as that of "glitched%": "minimum level" (that said, a minimum level run of a game would really be low%, not any%). Given that any% means "fastest", do we have a definition of "glitched" or "normal" that's meaningfully different from any%?
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thatguy wrote:
I'm suggesting a compromise: go back to "normal" runs having no label, while their "glitched" counterparts have a "uses [X]"-style branch name (instead of just "glitched"),
So how do you define a "normal" run? I don't see how this is a compromise, really; the current traditional system is clear and unambiguous, and your proposed system is not.
particularly newcomers who are often put off by glitched runs,
First, I haven't seen any evidence that newcomers are put off by that. And second, we specifically have a category "Recommended for newcomers" already.
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Thinking over the "best ending" discussion, I believe it would be most consistent to do use "best ending" in the branch name even if it's the only branch for that game, as long as reaching the best ending is indeed slower than it would be to reach some other (non-game over) ending, which it usually is. I'm basically agreeing with this quote:
Derakon wrote:
The default branch choice for this game (i.e. "any%") would not get the ending that this run gets, ergo the "best ending" label is required. At least, that's my understanding. If we only have one run for a game, and that run is a 100% run (where an any% run would be faster), shouldn't the run be labeled as "100%"?
I've found several games on the site that have only one branch which is unlabeled (on the principle that if there's only one branch, it doesn't need tagging), but this would lead to confusion as soon as as second run of the same game is made. Therefore I believe it would be more valuable to be consistent with what is done for games with multiple runs, i.e. that an unlabeled run means "any%". In the particular case of Cave Story, at about 2/3rds of the game an escaping NPC asks you to come with him, and if you do, you get an ending. It's a sad ending, sure, but it's clearly not a game over, so an Any% run would end at that point and be several minutes faster than the current run. Note that there are some sidequests you have to do earlier in the game to reach the best ending (as the current run does), so an Any% run could skip those. This hypothetical run would likely end up in the vault. As far as I can tell, "good ending" means the same thing as "best ending" and it would be nice to use the same term here, but that's not really a big deal.
Post subject: Malware warning on somebody's avatar
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There's one user on the forum who has an avatar image hosted on rphaven.org; Google has decided that it doesn't like this site, and as a result any thread that this user has posted in will, when opened in Chrome, instead display a big red warning page. Now I know that a simple GIF image probably won't contain a nasty evil virus :) Still, perhaps the easiest solution would be to ask this user to simply move his avatar to any of the hundreds of image hosting sites on the net?