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sudgy wrote:
I feel like to make a fully optimized run, we'll need to figure out all the weird kinks in a game. I'm sure if it's the cursor (which would make sense) then I think you could save at least a few frames in the levels. I think we should figure out this whole thing if it were feasible.
Well, I can't. :( But what would save many seconds would be a hack to see the whole level. Not being able to throw goos with extreme speed or anything, just being able to pause the game and look everywhere, Because on levels like Tower Of Goo, throwing goos blindly without being able AT ALL to see where they went and how to correct the shot is... ugh.
Anyway, chapter one done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzjfzVyzMOM
Comments are welcome !
As you can see, around a second can be saved if I can shot with more accuracy on Tower Of Goo and Fistys Bog (Actually, I don't really know if you can be more accurate... There's actually now way to know it ! :( ). So yeah, definitely not the final version of this TAS, but it's just to get some idea of strategy.
PS : Yes, audio desync and stuff, the video has some lag when I dump it, and when it gets long (like 6 minutes), there is 1-2 second of desync, then 3, and then this.
PS2 : I hate timebugs.
PS3 : I'm going to post less WIP, the first ones were just to be sure I was doing it right, but I don't think that it makes much sense to post 3 WIP by chapter :p
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I can't see what would be random here, the velocity ? The gravity ? Aren't they supposed to be constant ? (i mean, not random) ?
But yeah, I think you're right. But I can make it optimized without manipulating that, because I need to throw other goos while one goo is in the air.so I can't really concentrate on the position of the cursor at this moment... Unless the rng change dependent of the pixel :p Is there any ram watch on Dolphin anyway ?
I redid my run from the beginning to Chain (where I stopped in my WIP2), and I saved more than one second (83 frames) using different (and nicer) strategies.
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sudgy wrote:
You could just test that by not moving the mouse and reloading the savestate several times.
That's the test I made, and yes it didn't change, that's why I though the cursor was the reason, but... I don't know, I tried to influence the landing on Hang Low, and I couldn't. This is why I can't conclude anything ! Maybe it's the camera...
Bah, I will just continue I guess.
EDIT : Just discovered something... When you get enough goo in the pipe, TRY TO GO UP as fast as you can, the "continue" button will fell way more fast. I just saved 20 frames on Ivy Tower with that :p
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Ok, I have a little problem here... I have 9 goos flying (I threw them), and each time I reload the savestate (which is just after I threw the 9th goo), they land in different places !
So either :
1- The savestate changes the value of their velocity (somehow, a possible problem with the emulator, but I don't think this is the reason)
2- The cursor actually affects the gravity in the game (I made some test, and... I can't really conclude anything :( Sometimes it seems coherant, and sometimes no). In this case, throwing many goos while making sure they land on the right spot is going to be... harder than I though :p
... Or Impale Sticky is a very buggy level. Anyway, I saved 16 frames by using a completely different strategy (way more entertening actually). But damn, I let the game play at full speed I got 26 goos in the pipe, I use a savestate and suddenly I only got 25 ... Meh :p
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For Hang Low :
- I tried the OCD method with TAS precision (example : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJUl8-RxdIg ), but I can't manage to get enough goo (always miss one, after 2 hours of tries... The only time I got enough goos, they bounced so high I had to wait 5 seconds for them to go down... which is too much).
- I can't throw the goos and THEN build the tower. The higher those goos go, the faster they are, and building the tower to the pipe is slow. Plus, waiting for the goos to wake up is really long (4-5 frames per 3 goos), I tried to push the bottom of the structure to wake more goos at the same time, but then building the tower is even slower... :(
So yeah, that's pretty much 2 hours of testing here :) If you don't understand something because of my horrible english, please ask !
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Ok I will try then :)
ais523 wrote:
In Hang Low, why not throw the goo-balls /before/ you build to the pipe? Or is it impossible to keep them in the air long enough to build to the pipe before they land?
What you see here is me throwing them as hard as I can, but they seems to slow down dramatically at the black-line-goos, don't know why. I will try to move up the camera a little bit, maybe it will work then !
Wow, don't know why I misunderstood which level you were talking about. But the answer still the same, I tried but I didn't manage keep them long enough in air. And throwing one or two before wouldn't change anything. I'll try again, just to be sure though.
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Tseralith wrote:
At the fourth level, Impale Sticky, couldn't you throw up all goos you needed from the start instead of trailing some of them from the bottom to the top? Or is this approach faster?
I tried to throw all of them, but for some mysterious reason after 6 goos... It becomes a huge mess, all of them are bouncing (sometimes very high). So I would need to wait, and I can't afford that. And once I start to build, I don't have the time to throw one or two, as the bridge is already falling.
But I think I'm going to redo this level, because... Yeah, I don't like watching it, it seems ugly :l
ais523 wrote:
In Hang Low, why not throw the goo-balls /before/ you build to the pipe? Or is it impossible to keep them in the air long enough to build to the pipe before they land?
What you see here is me throwing them as hard as I can, but they seems to slow down dramatically at the black-line-goos, don't know why. I will try to move up the camera a little bit, maybe it will work then !
Comicalflop wrote:
My only criticism is that you have the opportunity to use the black cursor to spell out letters
I tried to do so in Impale Sticky (wrote STBM ), but... Damn it's hard ! I'm planning to write the name of the devs of this game later though, but I have to admit that right now that the entertainment value at the beginning of each level isn't... great :p I'll try to improve it !
Thanks for all the feedback ! :D
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In your Dolphin directory (where Dolphin.exe is), You need :
cg.dll
cgGL.dll
SDL.dll
I think you can download them on the internet (google it).
EDIT : Actually, I have some time... Here you go :)
Your dolphin folder should look something like that
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... I can actually throw them on the sides and make them bounce toward the pipe ! It will be hard to do, but hey ! It's a TAS :D
Totally forgot to use the sides ! Thanks !
EDIT : Success ! New time for 1-3 : 0:04 - 269 frames :D
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Thanks sonicpacker ! It will be very usefull !
Tseralith, as sudgy said, this can't be done yet, the only way to take off non-green goos is by breaking the tower on the side, which is too slow.
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What I meant was that I don't want to urge him. He's doing it for free, and this TAS will take some time to be done.
EDIT : Maybe I should specify that it's not the emulator itself which is causing the audio lag, but when I'm recording (with fraps for example). I read the movie making guide, but there isn't any avi recorder built-in Dolphin .
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Well natt publised a new version of a/c http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12601 so I guess he's working on it :p
EDIT : I was asking that because I saw the high quality video of sonicpacker's runs on Super Mario Galaxy :p
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Hi ! Here is my first WIP !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhl67n7e3ZM
Times :
1-1 : 0:00 - 51 frames
1-2 : 0:02 - 148 frames
1-3 : 0:06 - 400 frames (I hate this level, and TASing it was... Ugh :p)
----
This is my first TAS attempt ever, so I really need feedback about what I should change and how to improve myself.
Oh and also, does anybody know how to get a good quality recording ? I mean here the audio just keeps desynchronizing (no, it's not a real word), and the hack-version of Dolphin made by natt makes the whole movie desync... :s
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They also did the previous OoT any% run http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF5yXOVz3iM :p
It's not "perfect", because they have to make it short (they don't want to explain the RBA during the ganon fight...), and it's suppose to be understandable by everybody. So of course they have to simplify everything, and if you want to really understand this TAS it's better to read the author's description, but it still a very good commentary.
//All this stuff isn't off-topic at all :o
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Hmm, je pense qu'un mec déjà à l'aise avec le TASing pourrait mieux se charger de ça que moi, mais...
Si t'as un certains niveau d'anglais, tu peux aller voir ici : http://tasvideos.org/ArticleIndex.html , section "movie making", ou sinon aller voir les excellents tuto fait par Adelikat (un des excellents TASer de ce site, son nombre de trophée en dit beaucoup :p )
http://tasvideos.org/TASTutorial.html
Maintenant, si ton niveau d'anglais n'est pas suffisant... Je préfère laisser ma place à quelqu'un de plus expérimenter que de raconter des bêtises :)
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I have a question too :
When you first load a game, it created a folder on Dolphin/User/Wii/title/random numbers, which is I guess the game installed.
Well, if I this folder exists when I start to record, some bugs aren't realisable on World Of Goo for example, which is strange. If I record without this folder existing though (like if it's the first time I play the game), I need to delete it each time I want watch the run...
Am I doing it right ? And if so, is there an option to automaticly delete this folder when you close the emulator ?
Thanks. And once again, sorry for my poor English.
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I also thought as you than a 4 players would be awesome, but as rog said the dev of Dolphin is pretty slow. I don't complain though, it's all free :p
I can't wait in the future : 4 players wii VS 1 player PC *_*
For a lot of the levels I think it would still be faster to get OCD (the time taken to not get it may be more than the time wasted on the map), but some I could see this. Like the first level you just end the level before getting them all.
That's true. I'm not even sure anymore if you really loose some frame when you get OCD, I though so but I realised that my test were wrong :p
assuming the game lets you throw frequently and quickly enough (which would almost certainly be possible using a mouse, and maybe using a Wiimote too).
You can throw one goo per three frame |catch-throw-release| ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjiWVCOkUOk&feature=youtu.be ), but the problem is the speed. For example, in the 1-1 Going up, you need to move up the camera to throw efficiently (good ratio precision/speed) the goos from the ground to the pipe. I guess it's possible to throw them with a good speed without moving up the camera too, but even with TAS-precision this is very hard... But oh well, I guess this is part of the fun ! :p
I tested it on a wii game (tas-input doesn't matter then I guess) and... it synched perfectly ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjiWVCOkUOk&feature=youtu.be
(I made that in 10 minutes of tasing + 3 minutes with camtesia... don't juge the quality please :p )
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Hmmm it's funny, now the wii-recording sync sometime (5% of the movies I guess) but... When i'm recording lvl 1-1 of World of Goo, i get 0:00 in time, but when I play the movie I got 0:01... I don't know why ! But I think this is linked with why the recording does not always sync, there must be some frame added...
Any idea ?
EDIT : When I say "now", I mean i'm using the latest build that rog posted
