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I should also mention this tas was done 100% Blind as I never touched the Gameboy version in my life.
You should really know the game before you run it. It's highly likely this can be improved by a decent amount of time simply based on lack of knowledge about the game.
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Not many comments on this, that's kind of a shame. Voted yes.
Also calling attention to the updated file in the submission text, as it seems the submission file hasn't been updated yet.
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PikachuMan wrote:
You could make a run starting from SRAM by first inputting GameShark code 01A02AC4, start the game, then save and quit at 1-1.
Runs starting from SRAM are dubious in the first place, and I seriously doubt any SRAM made with GameShark/Action Replay is legit enough for run/publication purposes. A verification movie that gets to the same point the code sets you at would be a much better candidate.
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Watched the Youtube encode, voted yes. Incredibly well done. Just one question: The Youtube encode shows that the final hit to Shao Kahn is delivered at 28:39 or so, but the input time is 2 minutes longer. Is there any reason for this?
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Refraining from voting.
I don't think another Super Metroid run should be published unless the publication of this run obsoletes one of the others, though I would heavily favor this over either the in-game time run or the real-time run since there's not much variety between those two runs.
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Spikestuff wrote:
Now I got questions towards YOU.
1) Do you play music? (if no then ok but you still have a problem| if yes you are tone death) you full on attack the game for the music writing that it is different and worse listen to both together at the same time it is the exact same the is no differences on game sound between SNES and GBA.
...
Either you broke your GBA Speakers or your just tone death between the exact same music you would need to provide a reasonable backup showing that the GBA versions music is much worse.
...
Sum up all your vote is Criticizing on GAME MUSIC you should have only voted meh without making some stupid false evidence.
You do realize that the sound capabilities of a handheld system are seriously lacking in quality, I hope. The music on the GBA *IS* much worse. Barring that, the nostalgia factor of replaying a childhood classic and hearing the music is gone to waste due to the butchering each song gets because of the worse sound hardware. There is a massive difference between the two that you'd have to be "tone death" to not hear. Personally, I can't stand the GBA music, and I've played music for over half my life.
Music debate aside, I'm refraining from voting on this.
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Does Super Metroid get to be the exception where both a real-time and in-game time run can co-exist? If everyone were slobbering over a game like... say, Star Ocean: The Second Story, which also has an in-game timer used to judge console speedruns, would the community accept two separate runs if one has a time-wasting trick to lessen the in-game time?
I seriously doubt it, because SO2 isn't Super Metroid.
The arguments for publication strike me as pure favouritism. I have yet to see a single good argument for publication. Even Cpadolf's posting of the list of in-game time runs lacked any power, since none of those runs have a corresponding real-time run. Super Metroid is the only game that has had both.
I just don't see why it's acceptable for any one game to have near-identical runs side-by-side while the rest have none. It should be either one or the other, not both, unless it's suddenly okay to submit... say, something like this:
A Sonic TAS where the author intentionally wastes time in certain stages to reduce the score countdown after each act, resulting in a 20-30 second lower real-time at the cost of in-game time. Would such a run be published alongside the currently published in-game time runs? Possibly, though we've rejected strategies that offer faster real times at the expense of finishing the game slower "in-game". I admit that it's not a perfect parallel.
Should this run be published, which I am still against, I'd much rather it obsolete the real-time run instead of existing alongside it. I just don't see why it should be published on the grounds that it satisfies a small group's wishes while the majority of people who watch speedruns have absolutely no idea what constitutes the separation.
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spweasel wrote:
I'll be the bad guy and give this a no.
Most branches for games on this site are at least conceptually significantly different from all other branches. The difference between real-time and in-game times is such a ridiculously arbitrary distinction that I can't support reinstating the "in-game time" branch.
Between the main game and hacks, we already have 5 branches for Super Metroid. It really seems to me like we're at the point where any additional runs need a sufficiently unique gimmick in order to be worth publishing.
Unfortunately, I tried to see how this run screamed "I aim for in-game time" and couldn't. It really, really felt like a simple fastest time run, albeit perhaps one that didn't avoid items as often (something I probably wouldn't have even noticed had it not been the fact that I was looking for it).
Despite all that, I do have to admit that this is a pretty solid run (although I'm starting to find vanilla SM runs a little stale at this point). I can see the case for grandfathering the branch back into existence, but I personally think it would be better if it stays gone.
My thoughts exactly. Just because the speedrunning community as a whole aims for in-game time due to the convenience of an in-game timer doesn't mean we need a separate branch for a TAS. There are quite a few games with in-game timers and I doubt any in-game oriented run for one of those games would be accepted. Super Metroid shouldn't be an exception.
Plus, with the glitched run being 10 in-game minutes faster, this run basically serves the purpose of "glitchless in-game any%", which makes it even more arbitrary.
The quality may be as high as the author's ego, but I'm still voting No due to a completely arbitrary category I was glad to see go when Taco and Kriole's run obsoleted it.
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Lex wrote:
No, the game's graphics aren't glitchy like that. See my encode.
I beg to differ. fsvgm's encode worked fine, for comparison, though there was a bit of audio lag.
I'll refrain from voting. I like the run, but it seems a little glitchy to encode.
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A game not being on the compatibility list doesn't mean it's not compatible. I've found quite a few working games that aren't on the list yet, and given that IWBTG itself works, and has been fully TASed, it's quite possible that fangames will work as well.
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HawkE wrote:
Which version will be used for the run ? As far as I can see, no descision has been made. Or I missed something, hehe
Likely the (E) version, since English text is preferred. I'm considering switching to the (J) version due to it running in NTSC, although I doubt that's a good enough reason to switch over.
HawkE wrote:
What's going to happen with the STR potions, since there are only 4 in the entire game ? You can get these at Grecliff, Louran, Sylvain Castle and somewhere in Alaska.
Do we actually have to get the one in Alaska ? Sounds a bit strange to me, cause we never have something to do there and I don't think that this single potion really matters. But feel free to prove me wrong ;)
Gunty said earlier in the thread that getting all four STR potions would save 90 seconds overall, so the current plan is to get them all.
HawkE wrote:
Also I noticed one thing. The KungFuGi you can buy at Yonkou is supposed to give +8 STR, which sounds pretty good and it costs 1220, so we could skip the EnbuPike with this armor, though I have no idea if we can afford that, because we have to save up 6600 for the RedArmor from Mosque. Would that even make sense to get the armor in the run ? It's some time ago that I played this game and I have no idea, when we are able to get this armor
It's possible that it would save time, though testing is required to see if the time taken to get the money would be negated by the time saved by the extra STR. I've TASed the beginning of this game so many times that I've forgotten what happens later on, so I can't really make an educated guess.
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I'm alive and still kinda maybe working on this!
I don't have nearly as much time to work on long-term projects like this, but I'm still interested in doing the run, so I'm thinking of turning this into a collaborative effort. Would anyone be interested in working together on a movie?
(Example: If one hubble ball in tower one gives 2 exp and it takes 6 extra frames to kill it, this equals 2*60/6 = 20exp/s, that would be better than leveling at the parasite which only gives ~13exp/s.)
The calculation's a little off. I'd say it takes closer to 10 frames to kill an enemy with Slicer (offhand estimation), and the game runs at 50FPS, as I'm sticking to the (E) version due to English dialogue, though that might change due to the FPS issue, since (J) runs at NTSC and there's no (U) version. The calculation is actually closer to 2*50/10 = 10exp/s.
Later on it's more worth it to kill stray enemies, though for the early game they don't give enough to matter.
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I believe there's a minor increase in damage after the saber powerup is obtained, although I haven't tested this out thoroughly. It wouldn't be anything that would save any time from getting it earlier than where I do (in both cases). All normal enemies take one hit to kill, and aside from the first two minibosses, I have the powerup for every one. I ran a quick test and the first miniboss took two less hits to kill with the powerup, although the time it takes to get it is more than the 100 frames I would potentially save.
The rest of the attacks are exactly the same damagewise, with the bomb/summon being the only thing that causes more damage (equivalent to 3 hits per 290/320 frames [depending on character]). It's almost never worth it, though, considering three hits usually takes 150 frames.
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dunnius wrote:
The piano would have been awesome if real songs were played and they fit within the required notes.
My thoughts exactly, though it might be difficult considering the single octave restriction.
The first Brain Age run was a novel idea that worked really well in execution, while this is more or less the same thing with some piano mixed in. I'll abstain from voting. It was enjoyable, yet a bit stale.
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zidanax wrote:
I suppose it isn't a big deal, but is there a particular reason you made this run with 1.43 instead of 1.51 or even 1.52? Was it to make it easier to compare your times to the times in the old run?
EDIT: nevermind, I failed to notice that the previous run was made in ZSNES. Neverthless I'm curious why you used 1.43
I've had less problems with 1.43, although I admit I wasn't aware that 1.43 was considered somewhat deprecated until I submitted the run. If I make a version 2, it'll be on 1.51.
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A bigger graphical glitching image (this is frame 33486, but expanded and cropped), and a WIP for good measure. Current improvement to this point is 3433 frames, with the level itself being 979 frames, most of which belong to the optimized boss fight.
This one shouldn't desync.
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laranja wrote:
A 2P version should be faster than 1P? since on boss fight it seems they get a small vulnerability time due to character not being able to reach him to keep hitting?
I haven't tested 2P yet, but I think it was discussed and decided that there would be a lot of extra lag and negate what would be saved from hitting every boss as soon as possible.
Working on Grey Fac as we speak. It's probably my favorite level, so work should be quick and thorough. Thanks for the kind words, everyone! :3
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I happened to like the new camera angles, for the record. They added a new perspective on the game. Literally. That, and it makes for a drastically different-looking run, even if only three frames were saved, which is always a plus when it comes to frame-war runs.
Adding a late yes vote due to the improvement, and the opinion that rejecting the run based on opinions over bad camera angles would be entirely bad form.
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A bigger graphical glitching image (this is frame 33486, but expanded and cropped), and a WIP for good measure. Current improvement to this point is 3433 frames, with the level itself being 979 frames, most of which belong to the optimized boss fight.
This one shouldn't desync.
Optimizing the boss. Here's a suggested screenshot from me in the meantime. Graphic glitching is easy in this game :3