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Great WIP once again, Kriole.
Too bad you guys still didn't realize that making the first jump as high as possible in the Gravity Statue Spike room would be a bit faster in the end than trying to land in the spikes as soon as possible. My YouTube demo of this room is apparently not of much use for you... Other than that nice work with many improvements already. Keep it up!
For more news, some of you have eventually heard on IRC that I mentioned a kind of testrun I have finished a while ago, and today, I finally want to present it to you:
Super Metroid - 14% speedrun in 0:27!This run has a pretty long history that would probably interest some of you, so I thought I should share it:
I started to work on it in July 2007 after getting somewhat tired of Redesign. It was intended to actually be a quick testrun using the Ice Beam route, which I always felt like being the faster option than the Speed Booster route moozooh claimed to be faster all the time, so I just wanted to finish it to find out what time I could get with this run. In the very beginning, I didn't bother to micro-optimize Ceres and some of the earlier parts of the run. In fact, I didn't even use some of the tricks from my old any% in it, most noticeably the new OTES climb strategy, Gravity Spike Tech, and Norfair Walljump, because I actually planned to present this run sooner than the fully optimized any% and thus didn't want to spoil the tricks at first. Everyting until the WS lake went very quickly, and I was happy to finally face a new challenge nobody ever passed before in TAS conditions:
The WS-Lake HBJ without collecting the Missile pack!
It only took me ~2 days to fully optimize, and guess what, it only required ~7 sec to get to the other side of the lake (for comparison, moozooh thought it requires ~25 sec, and hero even assumed it to be a 2 min delay at first :-P). After that, I started to take the run more and more seriously, finishing Phantoon in 2 quick rounds while only having one Missile pack, and even spoiling a few strategies in WS such as the attic one. At the Red Brinstar shaft followed the probably last obvious mistake of the run by missing the hero-knockback from the Ripper to enter the next room a half sec faster (a trick that wasn't yet public at that time), but from Kraid's Lair on, I consider the run to be more or less flawless (with the exception of the Norfair Walljump I avoided to spoil intentionally).
I did alot of tests and deep calculations ahead to roughly guess what time I would likely end up with all the run conditions count in (at this point I want to thank hero for his any%v1 0:25 run, which was of great help to me, because it basicly used the same route until the end), and after Ridley, on whom I used PBs and even Ice shields to make a pretty entertaining battle overall, it got more and more clear that I would most likely end up with a low 0:28. I started to regret to have neglected some of the micro optimizations from the early parts of the run, which would be badly needed for the quest to break the 0:28 barrier. Despite of all the previous hard work to get excellent luck in LN, I played with the thought to start over completely, but finally decided to take the risk and still try to go for the 0:27 time. The production pace of the run started to slow down massively, as I from now on took much more effort to optimize the run. Nevertheless I enjoyed the new speedboosterless conditions in Maridia, which although made that part a pain in the ass to optimize, allowed me to develope some really nice and still fast strategies there. The highlight was of course the Draygon fight, to which hero once said the following quote when mentioning the "Pros of the Speed route":
hero of the day wrote:
MUCH MUCH MUCH faster draygon fight. Since your ammo is horrible in a low% run, shinesparks can take out draygon in a very fast 2 rounds.
Well, how about taking out Draygon in a nearly same fast 2-rounder with that horrible ammo nevertheless? :-)
With extreme shot precision and luck manipulation it's still possible, you just have to hit Draygon and his gunk for refills with the same projectile all the time.
Anyway, after exiting Maridia, manipulating all refills from the Metroids without delays, escaping the big Metroid as shown here, the Mother Brain fight and the speedboosterless Zebes escape, I finished the run in early January 2008 with a completion time of 0:28 that is only 2 seconds away of 0:27, just like I feared. It pissed me off, so I decided to just put that run aside. Then, in late June 2008, when the new 6% NBMB TAS came out, Cpadolf presented a new big Metroid escape that was only possible by abusing Samus' hitbox through morphing in the right moments just before the Metroid grabs her, which was something I couldn't even notice without using the memory watcher in first place. This new escape, although requiring a PB which would slow down the MB battle a bit, should, as I calculated, still be faster in the end, and enough to cut off the last 2 seconds missing for the 0:27 to make my goal come true again. So I picked the run in July 2008 once again after a half year, and redid the Big Metroid escape using Cpadolf's technique, while even managing to improve it by a few more frames. The rest of the run was more or less just copied from the previous work, and just because of the new Metroid escape, I finally got a extremely high 0:27, only a few frames away before switching to 0:28!
Because of this fact, I can now say for sure that 0:27 is definitely the absolute limit for a 14% run, no matter what you do. Since this run got absoleted by the new 6% NBMB / glitched any/low% anyway, I won't bother to improve it anymore just to save a few seconds in realtime at most.
To sum the technical details up:
- This run is ~7,6 minutes faster in in-game time than Terimakasih's classic 14%, or even ~8,5 minutes faster in realtime. So I not only reached the fastest possible completion time on the game clock, but also a optimal realtime by skipping all Pause Screens/Menus except when it was unavoidable for the Gravity Jump trick, making the run even more entertaining to watch.
- All Boss strategies except of Kraid are new and unique, developed for this run exclusively, yet they are performed as optimal as possible with only a minimal margin of error (a few frames at most) due to unavoidable luck manipulation.
- Health and ammo management is excellent over the entire run, especially in Lower Norfair and at the Metroids, where it took me alot of work to optimize.
And to clear up the last questions about the Ice VS Speed time and route differences:
No matter whether you take Speed Booster or not, going for early WS with my HBJ technique is a must in any case. Getting Speed Booster early then returning back to WS, like moozooh planned in his run, is much slower due to the long route detours combined with the additional, slow elevator rides. Although having Speed Booster would save a couple of seconds in WS, it would still be far away of reaching the time losses to get it early.
Because of this simple fact, both routes would be equal until entering Norfair, with also almost same detours to get Ice or Speed. So basicly, the true Ice VS Speed comparison only starts at Lower Norfair. Thanks to hero's any%v1 in 0:25 TAS, I could compare the time gains of Speed Booster in every room pretty exactly, until the very end. In total, with all the possible improvements count in, and with the delays of PBing the Metroids, the Speed Booster only saved 70 seconds at most, and this without even counting the recharge station / ship refills you would probably have to use at least once, wasting 10 or more seconds additionally, and therefore resulting in a final gain of just ~1 minute in the end.
The Ice Beam however, already saves ~100 seconds at MB alone, and another ~35 sec at Ridley.
So in the end, the Ice route is (135sec - 60sec) around 75 seconds faster than the Speed route, as unbelievable as it looks, and therefore the absolute limit you could theoretically reach with the Speed route would be a mid till high 0:28 at best or even a low 0:29 at worst, which, to my surprise, moozooh once again failed to realize.
Anyway, I hope I could clear everything up regarding the 14% run now, and I want to appologize to keep it secret for so long. I was just curious to see what some of you would be able to achieve by themself, and I didn't want to kill your attempts with my run too soon. Seeing that nobody works on a 14% run anymore, I thought it's the right time to release it now. Maybe I will eventually upload the smv on my site as well, or just submit it here as an almost 9 minutes improvement to the previous run, but seeing that it's obsoleted by the new 6% run, it probably isn't necessary.
So yeah, enjoy the run!
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hero of the day wrote:
Why would you need to enter the menu twice?
The ridley fight won't require a pause menu because the wave beam would be the only beam collected at that point. The only time the menu would be accessed is half way through the MB fight to turn off the ice beam.
It will be slightly faster to turn on the Ice Beam for MB's last 6000 HP left after the combos.
Charged Wave only: 150 HP; 6000/150 = 40 shots/sec
Charged Wave/Ice: 180 HP; 6000/180 = 34 shots/sec
Entering the menu one more time to activate Ice costs ~2,7 sec, so you will still save 3,3 sec in realtime during the fight.
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Cpadolf wrote:
Tada!
Due to the tremendous amounts of lag I doubt this new strategy through the room would be of any help in a realtime oriented run though.
Very nice. I completely forgot about the temporary blue suit trick here, which is the only way to break that last pillar. It's 34 frames faster than the other CWJ method, but still 40 ingame frames slower than the shinespark.
Hero:
Very interesting route idea you got there. Skipping Spazer indeed seems to be a promising option, however I should correct that it only saves 10 sec (or 15 if counting the door transitions). Getting the LN PB will cost around 4 sec, so the true realtime gain would only be ~11 sec there.
As for Mother Brain, I actually planned to show this strategy in my Redesign run when fighting her, but since it will be of use for the new route, I don't mind spoiling it: It is well possible to hit Mother Brain with all 4 projectiles of the PB Wave combo, it just requires a 74 frame delay compared to a 3-hit one, which in the end is definitely faster if not having Spazer:
4-hit PB-Wave Combo on Mother BrainYouTube Video
That way you will only lose ~9,5 sec compared to charged Spazer/Wave/Ice. The faster Ridley fight with the delays to refill all PBs before him will pretty exactly equal this loss again, just like the faster Kraid's Lair and Ice Beam with Speed Booster will equal the pipe bug refills during Norfair, and the PB refills before Mother Brain. This leaves us with the same gain of 11 realtime sec of the Spazer skip. Now we also have to count in entering the menu twice (to switch off Ice for the Wave Combos on MB), which is another 5,4 sec delay in total, so the final gain would only be around 5,5 sec realtime or pretty exactly same ingame time.
Pretty stupid as you see, but this route would definitely make the run somewhat more varying, and therefore more entertaining to watch, and despite that it will be much harder to optimize due to the additional luck manipulation at the refills, it should be worth a try.
Another interesting option would be to use the same route again, but get the Spazer instead of the LN PB this time. The 2 additional door transitions to Spazer allow to cancel out the double menu entrance at MB, which yet again makes the completion time pretty exactly same fast in both real and ingame time again. 3 different routes, which all seem to achieve nearly the same completion time in the end. Not a easy decision for the author of the future realtime oriented any%...
EDIT:
Added YouTube video.
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XETH wrote:
Saturn, you can save more time in all worlds mainly in prehistorika in case you make use of the multiplication-area trick of the game. this allows you to have easy access to (with manipulated luck incredibly) much more incredients, items and call beads.
the trick in perfection is published here in german. you have to translate it before.
http://www.rpg-dreamer.de/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=680
I was well aware of the ingredient multiplication trick when working on my run back then. You can see it clearly in Mammoths Grave and Bug Muck, where I pick various ingredients in a specific order to get more Clays for the important Hard Ball formula, despite that it takes a slight detour. There are sure ways to get even more ingredients out of this trick, but the detours to run back and forth would get too big that way, so I only abused it to the absolute minimum in order to have just enough clays to kill the Prehistoria bosses. Still, thanks for the mentioning, I'm sure this will be of some help for evilchen anyway.
And evilchen, nice bridge trick you used in Bugmuck. Looking forward to see more progress of you.
kwinse:
Try this (created with "Google Translate").
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Nice entertainment-run, NameSpoofer. Good route choice, solid boss strategies, and some really cool tricks with the X-Ray climb. The final time is 31,26, so even without fighting Crocomire, getting a sub 30 would be pretty close here (but should still be possible with enough optimization, even without the X-Ray climb).
Regarding the Pillar room, nice idea, hero. I compared Cpadolf's method with all the needed setup delays, and it is still ~74 in-game frames slower (and even more realtime frames due to PB-lag) compared to a regular pillar-shinespark with the reverse charge in the end. With good energy management, I doubt it would be worth to skip that shinespark.
And no, there is no way I can think of to break the last full pillar with a blue suit, even if you would manage the CWJ at a much higher speed. The last pillar's position is just too high, and not reachable after a morphball bounce no matter what speed you would have.
hero of the day wrote:
I am also thinking of a possibility for an entirely new any% route, but I need to figure out a few more kinks before it is feasible.
Let me guess: You want to delay Kraid's Lair until after Norfair to pass it faster with Speed Booster, right?
That's the only route change I can think of that could be interesting for the realtime-oriented any%. But given the fact that you come empty in both, health and ammo after WS, there is pretty much no way to fast-pace through Norfair without some serious delays for refilling, especially when you will have one E-Tank less for the Norfair trip. The only option when delaying Kraid would be to take the detour to get the HJ-Boots E-Tank, and this would actually end up pretty exactly same fast (+/- 30 frames) in the end. I did a rough test for this a couple of months ago to find out. Even then, the Kraid first route has a huge advantage because you can refill alot of Supers from the mini Kraid 2 times, which are very important for Norfair.
If you think of a completely different route change though, would you mind to give more details about it? I'm pretty sure I could help you with some of the stuff that needs to be tested with it.
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Warp wrote:
I suppose the only question is whether it adds so much to the entertainment or not.
It doesn't IMO.
The only more entertaining part is the animal saving sequence, which is however pointless, since it doesn't contribute anything to the purpose of the run and takes more time for nothing.
The one and only pause menu entrance to switch off the suits for the MB stand up glitch shown in the main movie isn't a bad thing as well, because it briefly shows the map, the design of the menu and all the special items Samus has collected over the run (a good identification that it is a 100% run).
And most important of all, it shows the very useful Mother Brain Stand Up Glitch (saves a 1/4 minute, and a Murder Beam obsoletion), something no other run except the RBO would have the possibility to present. It adds more entertainment during the scene where the big Metroid joins, since you can move Samus freely instead of being forced in the same crouch position all the time. The only thing that gets missed that way is the final Hyper Beam phase of the fight, but that can be seen often enough in any other kind of run, like the any%s, or legit low% / 14% ones.
Anyway, I finished encoding the main run for the TASvideos standard (with all descriptions / watermarks), and first time ever, with the glitched line fix (thanks to hero). All that of course with the best video/sound quality possible:
http://www.archive.org/download/SuperMetroid_TAS_36_Cpadolf/supermetroid-tas-items100p-cpadolf.avi
(158 MB)
Feel free to link it to the publication as a alternative download to the torrent system.
PS:
If people really want to see the slower, alternate movie that saves the animals and skips the pause menu, then maybe it's worth another encode that could be added additionaly to the main movie, so that people could simply chose which run they want to watch.
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Incredible run, Cpadolf!
I have no words how many new tricks you showed in it, especially the blue suit tricks to break various blocks much faster. This run once again shines due to the extremely high optimization level and the totally awesome ammo and health management (especially when passing Norfair suitless).
Seeing that a 0:35 was only 4 sec away to get, I would definitely rather sacrifice the few realtime frames at the door transitions just as much to break the 0:36 barrier, simply because nobody would notice/care about them anyway. But you probably didn't know it would get so close until almost the end of the run, so it's not a bad thing.
This is a huge improvement to the previous run (the missing input animation, even though it looks great in JXQ's run, isn't a criteria to judge on at all IMO, since it's just a side effect added to the run), so it deserves a obvious YES vote.
PS:
As usual, I'm willing to encode a max quality video file of this run (with the glitched line fix). If you guys want me to do that, let me know please.
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Looks pretty good so far.
The only mistake you did is to not use the hardest difficulty by setting the CPU fighters on 8 Stars instead of the standard 4. That way you can't show off as many combos as I did, because you finish your opponents too quickly due to the much higher damage you deal to them. This will make a faster movie overall, but the entertainment value (which is the most important criteria in fighting games) will suffer from this.
Also, since you use Guile, try to abuse his very quick cooldown after the shots as much as possible for the combos. He can do some really crazy ones because of that. :-)
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Awesome glitch once again, inichi! You are, hands down, the most creative TASer I have seen so far when it comes to find totally unexpected and absolutely crazy glitches. I just have no other words to describe your crazy work that you show us over and over again.
As for the ROM question, I think switching to the (J) version just because of the new trick will be a good choice. This is a NewGame+ run that uses a existing SRAM to get all the maxed out stats and best equipment anyway, so I think it's fine in this case to do absolutely everything that is possible to save time, even if it will require glitches that screw up the game. The "Bronze Fist" simulation on Crono and Marle is just so special that it's definitely worth the show off, and in which run would that be more suitable than in this one when it already allows you to have the needed level of 96 or more? A obvious case IMO.
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Great run, Kriole.
The biggest mistake was to fight Crocomire. That way you lose your ~1900 frame lead over my old RBO after Ridley, and end up being even around 1 whole minute slower when entering the big snail room the first time. It was very obvious that the Grapple Beam would never save the time it takes for the collection, so I'm somewhat surprised you still decided to do it.
Another obvious route mistake was to enter WS the usual way. It's much faster to enter it backwards by using the Maridia elevator at the top east instead.
It's also a bit faster to go through Red Brinstar/Crateria when heading to Tourian instead of Green Brinstar like you did.
This runs exact completion time is 34,16 min. Skipping Crocomire would for sure allow you a 0:32 right there. Getting sub-0:30 with my route would be pretty hard though, but should be well possible with the improved Hero-route.
Anyway, congrats on the first ever finished RBO TAS. It's for sure entertaining to watch and already shows a good amount of tricks no other run would be able to present.
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Drew:
I tested ahead for Brinstar, and there shouldn't be any problems despite at least 3 purple doors there. At which location do you think would it get close with the Missiles I have? I would gladly take a further look on it as well.
Solon:
This is hard to estimate, but I hope to get it done next year. However if you are really interested in the run, I wouldn't suggest to wait until then. The WIPs are there for a reason after all. :-)
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Kriole wrote:
I'd like to introduce Edgehogging:
It's a trick that is both incredibly ugly, rarely useful AND pretty obvious. (Actually surprised noone else has thought of it =/)
With EdgehoggingWithout Edgehogging
A very old technique I actually used pretty often in my runs (you can see examples in the Redesign WIPs when entering Red Brinstar or Crocomire).
The reason it saves time is that you gain falling speed just like usual once you start doing this technique, despite that it keeps you at the same vertical position all the time. That way you will fall with max speed down, once the ground/crumble block/door gets cleared.
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Thanks everybody!
Cpadolf wrote:
What the hell, how much damage does ridley take from a charged wavebeam shot... Seems pretty ridiculous.
It's a combination of both, the Pseudo Screw Attack and shots. And yes, the former is Ridleys weakpoint and the major key for the quick kill.
Cpadolf wrote:
Excellent WIP, not knowing the route before watching really increases the entertainment value. Will we be allowed the smv later?
Sometime later, eventually.
Kriole wrote:
The e-tank after Ridley, why didn't just morph into the tunnel with some speed?
You don't have enough room to get blue suit there. Redesign doesn't allow such a short charge like the original.
Kriole wrote:
Morph ball bomb jumping is used pretty frequently, is there any reason/restriction that doesn't allow you to use the spring ball extension on all of them?
It's only possible if you have ground contact before the bomb blows you up. There is no way you can do it in midair.
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OK guys, after a more than a year long break, I'm back with a new WIP!
Be prepared to see new and never before seen sequence breaks, crazy boss strategies, and a totally new route most people wouldn't expect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrf-l53GF3k
Enjoy!
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Incredible WIPs Powerrangers!
A few comments to clear things up for you guys:
Kriole wrote:
The next timesaver is the timesaver Cpadolf accidently spoiled in Spoofers WIP. Although incredibly hard to detect, it saved about 9-13 frames. (This is hard to measure, but it's somewhere in that area) Some weird bug/glitch/abuse allows the eye-door, during certain circumstances, to be shot even though it is not on-screen, and even if it's not opened (I think).
Nope, it's not a bug at all. The fact is, it just doesn't matter at all whether the eye door is on screen or not. If you get close enough to it, it will open it's eye no matter of the screen position (which is what happened in your and my old any% runs case). The reason you could shoot the Missile from so far away and still hit the center of the eye is, as NameSpoofer already guessed, that the momentum of the mockball can still be maintained (even with the additionally aim up delay before the shot), which speeds up the Missile significantly in the horizontal direction while keeping neutral speed in the vertical.
Kriole wrote:
The next timesaver is the debris on the way up from Phantoon (again). The reverse crumble was used, and it was a gain in 3 aspects:
You can lay the powerbomb earlier, you get more speed when transitioning, and it is faster framewise. And it's hot.
Very nice trick I must admit to have missed in my run. Good job.
Kriole wrote:
And that also goes for the WS statue-room, 30 frames gained here.
Which is still 1 frame slower than what I did in my old any%. I actually wonder why you didn't use my perfect strategy, when there is even a video demonstration available you guys were aware of.
Kriole wrote:
Avoiding a demorph when falling down to the Red Brinstar elevator saved a couple of frames (nothing new really).
Obviously this can't be anything new when it was already spoiled a long time ago. You also managed to execute it same fast this time, good job on that.
Kriole wrote:
I've been working on yet another Saturn route RBO, since I had time to waste.
Behold
Wow, very nice improvement this time. I'm highly impressed by the speed and some of the new tricks you used in this run, especially the Kago LN room both ways and blue Brinstar. Great job!
This time you are exactly 1927 frames ahead of my old RBO when entering Ridley's E-Tank room. If we subtract ~1300-1400 frames for the improved Torizo skip, and ~200 frames of sloppy optimization at the beginning of my run (mostly in Crateria, due to lack of knowledge), you are still around 350 frames ahead of it by true improvements (despite skipping a few more Missile packs I collected).
However there are still a few parts you apparently didn't want to improve, such as getting early PBs via the hero shot to save a good deal of time in Norfair (it's even more faster when you skip the hopper PB there anyway), and the hidden Missile below Ice Beam that only takes ~25 frames to get, but will save much more at Ridley. Oh, and I just compared, and the CWJ in the green bubble room is in fact even a bit slower than what I did in my 2nd RBO demo there due to, as already guessed, the much lower starting position you get before walljumping the right wall up of it. Also, using a shinespark in the LN Pirate shaft is a bit slower than what I did in my run. But since it saves a important PB, I think it's still worth it.
Anyway, other than that I couldn't see any more significant mistakes, and look forward how you will handle Maridia and the rest of this extremely entertaining run. Good Luck!
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OK guys, as you see moozooh just needs some time to realize that having a big mouth without anything behind it is not a good thing. If you don't believe what I said about him in the past, don't worry, time will show that clearly sooner or later anyway. I tried what I could to motivate him to start working on his run so that he could gain his own experience that is required to become a good SM-TASer (and then eventually contribute something new as long as it's not too late), but ok, he either doesn't want to, or more likely just can't get past this early learning-stage. Too bad.
Cpadolf and Hero:
I'm glad to hear you guys did good progress on the 100% run and support your wise decision to not use the X-Ray climb for entertainment purposes. As hero said, a 100% run should show as much as possible the game has to offer, to which the Gravity Statue walk, even though it's useless and time consuming, counts to as well.
Oh, and very nice glitch demos you showed there, Cpadolf. Too bad they are once again useless for any speedrun. :-/
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Kriole wrote:
Didn't he say in the 6% NBMB thread that he isn't speaking to you anymore? I figured that might be the reason to why he did not reply to your question.
Not speaking because I wanted to help people realizing the obvious that some of them didn't got by themself? A good reason I guess, especially when the question was asked in the name of everybody who waits for his run, not just me.
In general, such a attitude is just childish (I was like ~8 when I did it the last time before realizing how stupid it is, so I know it just well). If there is a misunderstanding, it's always best to just talk about it instead of sitting there like a bullhead. I already tried what I could, but as you see, it doesn't work if the other side doesn't want to cooperate, unfortunately. But whatever, there is still some time left to grow up, I guess.
And "Hype the Saturn", nice shit you summed up there. It indeed matches my personality to 120%.
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Tonski wrote:
Saturn, how many TASes were you meant to finish by this date huh? And what did you say as your excuses every time you didn't finish your TAS by the date? That's right, lack of motivation and time. I haven't seen any progress from you although you do keep telling you're making some all the time. Stop picking on moozooh.
I made some good progress on SM-Redesign recently and will release a new WIP in the next month or two, as said before already. Though I can't tell at which point I'm at exactly, since it should be a secret until the new WIP is out, for a bigger surprise.
And regarding moozooh, I was just asking on how the progress is, but it seems our little coward isn't even willing to inform us about something as minor as this. Oh well. My thoughts get confirmed more and more with this: He is waiting for other TASer (especially for me, as it seems) to finish their runs before continuing his own, which just shows how clue- and helpless he is when it comes to producing his own individual work. Such a frame-by-frame dependence on other TASers work is just pitiful and something I really haven't seen from any TASer on this site before so far. Maybe some of you will eventually realize this simple fact someday, then you would be able to understand my position on this.
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amaurea:
Thanks you for adding the new ingame feature. Now unassisted speedrunning against the ghosts is possible without any limitations. Should be a great motivational way for anybody to improve himself by trying to beat his own ghost. :-)
As for the 100% run without using X-Ray climb, I think it doesn't need any special notice. If another 100% run will ever use this or any of the glitches Cpadolf mentioned, then it could be called a "glitched 100%" instead.
Also a small reminder:
Not too long ago on IRC wrote:
<Baxter> moozooh: you did have a goal to finish some TAS in 2008 right?
<moozooh> yes.
<moozooh> i'm going to kill myself if i won't.
Seems to get pretty close now that half of 2008 has already passed. How is the progress on the run, moozooh? Did you already reach Kraid?
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amaurea wrote:
I am now encoding a new version of the movie, this time in room comparison mode, since that was requested. There will be no sound this time either, sadly (I would be thankful if someone could encode a version with sound).
Including sound in a movie is not a problem. You can do it yourself pretty easily, especially in Windows. Just capture the AVI through Snes9x when playbacking the multiple run, using a lossless codec like Lagarith. Just make sure to set Snes9x's sound rate to 44 kHz or higher, otherwise you will get audio/picture desyncs later.
Now you only have to compress this raw video. Here is how to do it with VirtualDubMod, a excellent video editing program I recommend for anybody. Load the raw video up in it, go to "Streams" ---> "Stream List" and rip the audio to a seperate .WAV file. Encode this file to a mp3 using a program like RazorLame. After the mp3 is encoded, "add" it into the Stream List while "disabling" the original WAV-file. Once this is done, hit OK to exit the Stream List.
Now everything that is left is to compress the video. Go to "Video" ---> "Compression" and select a codec you want to compress the video. I recommend Xvid or x264. After selecting a codec from the list, click on "Configure" to set the desired settings for it, then hit OK. Finally go to "File" ---> "Save As". Thats it. After the encoding process is done (which can take a few hours depending on your computer), you should now have a compressed AVI with sound that is ready for sharing.
And as of the script itself, is there a possibility to compare runs like with the ingame mode you set with "2" in the "player.lua", but without actually skipping any of the realtime frames in the main run, and instead only delay the "ghost" whenever the main run picks up a item or passes a door transition so that it still stays in sync with the run you compare to in ingame time. That would be much better if you "battle" the ghost in a unassisted run, since the realtime frame skips, especially during lag like when a PB explodes, make it hard to play further without being disturbed. And comparing in realtime only wouldn't be that accurate due to the different door transition delays or different amount of item pickups as well. Wouldn't it be possible to include such a option into this script, or are there some restrictions that wouldn't allow a ingame comparison without realtime frame skips in the main run?
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amaurea:
Thank you for the detailed description on how to use your script. I just tested it, and it works! Comparing runs like this is very interesting (in realtime), especially when you make a unassisted speedrun. You just use your best recording, and try to beat the ghost of it when playing another attempt. Reminds me strongly on Super Mario Kart's "Time Trial" mode. :-)
Cpadolf and Hero:
I think banning the X-Ray climb in a 100% isn't a bad decision. Although I don't see the Gravity Suit room break-in being the same as complete out of room traveling like in the Statue room in NBMB, it's still based on the same tech, and thus it would be inconsistent to use it there but nowhere else. Besides it's much less entertaining to see, and it also skips the interesting Gravity Statue sequence, which is a good addition in a 100% run that should show as much as possible of such stuff in the game. But most important, the ingame timer would still stay the same no matter whether you use it or not, since a 0:35 is too far away to be reachable anyway.
However if this trick (which will save at least 10 sec in total) would allow for a higher ingame timer in the end, I would still go for it.
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It depends on how much difference you put between all the minor glitches that get used in any SM-TASes by standard now, and the major, game-breaking out of room travelling ones like shown in this run. I still would recommend to put this run in the "glitched" category compared to all the other, legal ones, just so that the first-time watcher actually knows what to expect of the run. The out of room travelling glitch is just too major to be ignored as such one.
Alternatively, since it skips all bosses (unlike any other run), we could also just label it a "NBMB" (No-Boss-Mini-Boss) run, as mentioned before. And since a NBMB isn't even possible without the out of room travelling glitch, it would probably be ok to not even use the word "glitched" alongside with it in this case.
So in the end we could either call it "glitched any% / low%", or just "NBMB".
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moozooh wrote:
Saturn wrote:
So is that the reason why you don't work on your low% despite sitting around here every day doing nothing for years?
No. The previous time I explained my reasons was the previous time, go find it yourself if you want.
If you mean the old "being too busy" excuses you mentioned, then yeah, no need to reapeat them. Just something to remember for you: There are weekends where one should have enough time to do at least a bit of progress, if it's really not possible during the week (which is again highly doubtful judging by your post-activity here alone).
Also, I assume most TASer here are busy more or less, (I'm ~10 hours at work every day), but that doesn't stop us from doing progress, even if slowly. You on the other hand just sit around here confusing other people by making them think you work on that 14% for years, while in fact doing nothing at all. How about just making a clear decision: either working on that run, or leaving it alone, so that other TASer can pick it up without worrying about "stealing" the project from you?
(although as it seems it will happen someday anyway, just like it did with this NBMB run you also "worked" on before)
hero of the day wrote:
If it helps to alleviate any fear of "too many super metroid runs!", it should be known that Taco and Kriole are now working on a new any% run. This new run should theoretically obsolete both my run and Cpadolf's run. They will be aiming for real time, but at the same time will also manage to tie the in-game run's in-game time. Two movies obsolete for the price of one.
Yeah, good point, though one should keep in mind that the in-game oriented run is still a more entertaining one to watch overall, due to the additional items, and therefore higher speed/pace and more variety. The future of this run, once the realtime one gets a 0:23 as well, will probably depend on how much value we put on that entertainment stuff in it.
PS:
It's really surprising how many people gave this NBMB run a sub-9 technical rating, despite that it's the by far most optimized Super Metroid TAS we have here, with all of the new techs and long-time worked out optimizations included. Maybe it's not so obvious for the uninvolved TASer of this game, but if you ask any of the more experienced SM-TASer, they will for sure confirm that this is without a doubt a extremely well optimized run in both, speed and luck manipulation. Just something I thought I should note.
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moozooh wrote:
As for Super Metroid per se, it's known to become obsolete already during the production of a run due to the mad pace of discovering new esoteric tricks, the players have already yielded up to that.
So is that the reason why you don't work on your low% despite sitting around here every day doing nothing for years? I mean going by your logic, it's not even necessary to wait for other TASer to find stuff for you to copy into your run, since there will always be further improvements found, right? And since you do "only" a testrun, super optimization isn't necessary anyway, but rather just beating the game to find out what problems you have to be prepared to for the final version. Why don't you just clear everybody up whether you will ever finish your run at all (low chance as it seems), and if so, when should we expect to see it? It would avoid alot of unnecessary confusion about it after all.
And hopper, very good points. I couldn't have said it better.