If you guys had this in the making during the voting for Robertz's submission, why were you being so defensive in that thread?
Anyways, great job. Being obsoleted then creating another run that's more optimal than the previous is true skill and I applaud you for it.
Right now I'm getting the impression people are trying to disregard the importance of entertainment value in a run, and that the optimization of the run is the only criterion for publication.
I don't see that at all. I've seen people state their opinion regarding whether they liked the run or not, and various other people try to discredit those opinions without any reason to.
As for the run, I finally got around to watching it. While there were some pretty interesting glitches/tricks in the adult segment, it wasn't nearly the "you're going to wet your pants" type run that I was expecting from many of the comments in this thread. This has nothing to do with the technical accomplishment of the run; it was obviously very well planned out and executed. I just found it hard to sit through a 3 hour long TAS without feeling bored at times.
However, I was moderately entertained throughout most of it, and will give it a yes. Had this not been my favorite game to play as a kid, I would have been bored to tears, as many of the other recent posters have been. It's a typical problem with RPGs (and yes, this is an action RPG, no matter what anyone tells you), and I'm not surprised there have been some people who couldn't sit through the whole thing, and found it uninteresting. That's just how things go with long runs like this. Sometimes it helps to have played the game.
In any case, I'd like to say excellent work to Bloobiebla, and please make another run, I can tell you have a very good gift for TASing.
On another note, I still haven't heard any good reasons for obsoletion of Guano's run... speak soon, or forever hold your peace.
On yet another note, if you listen carefully when adult link is sidehopping, it sounds like he's saying "SKANK! SKANK!" repeatedly. That gave me quite a chuckle.
I appreciate your contrary opinion but I still have to disagree with that. I think optimization should always come before entertainment because optimization is factual and is a more fair criteria to base your publication decision on rather than entertainment. If people don't find a run entertaining than they can always just not watch it but if we have outsiders coming to the site craving for a dose of OoT speed. They'll have it.
I don't consider a TAS to be a source of video entertainment (as much as it is). It's always been appealing to me as a benchmark of current knowledge for any title at that point in time. It's a way to tell how fast something is possible, no questions asked. Although OoT is a boring game to watch through in one sitting, it's there to show you that it's even a possibility to watch a classic epic adventure game in one sitting which not too long ago, was an alien concept.
It's great to make a run entertaining, don't get me wrong. But, I think it shouldn't over prioritize optimization.
EDIT: Post meant to adress Vykan12's claim.
I've said this on IRC;
Optimal =/= Entertaining.
I respect everyone's vote but I have this to say. Not everyone likes the same style of TAS but I think it's factual that this run is worthy of being on this site whether or not you personally would find it appealing to watch. Isn't that the point of the votes? To see if the site thinks its worthy of being on the site due to optimal performance? It's not a video/game-enjoyment survey.
What makes this run entertaining to some is the fact that Ocarina of Time is in fact, a VERY slow-paced game. So, believe it or not, to us OoT speed run fans, it's a pleasure to watch this slow-paced run (including the cut scenes for added nostalgia) because it's just further proof of how much you can simplify a game that's supposed to be a childhood-long adventure.
Apparently people voting no have never heard of skipping cutscenes; you do know that VLC and probably most other media players can play at 4x+ speed, right? If it wasn't for constantly being able to change between 1, 2 and 4x speed or tried to watch the run in one shot instead of gradually over a few days, I would've found it tedious to watch too. Don't get me wrong, I do this for most videos anyway. For instance, in a Super Metroid video, I'll watch the .smv so I can turbo through all the door transitions and whatnot, not so much because I'm an impatient moron, but it just makes it easier to appreciate the entertaining core of the run.
Regardless, I do think this game is heavily overrated for TASing, as people give no consideration to how repetitious side hopping can get, or how slow paced this game is compared to other runs on the site that didn't receive 65 consecutive yes votes (or even 65 votes altogether). What I guess I'm saying is I feel too many people are auto-voting yes more because of how much they love the game rather than how entertaining the run is. No matter how well bloobiela optimized the run (and he really did a spectacular job), that doesn't really change the fact that RPG/adventure type runs are just intrinsically more boring to watch.
*prepares to receive some major hate*
You're absolutely right about the slow pace of this game. Although you never mentioned anything about the run not being well made and optimal to today's knowledge of this particular game.
I believe that's the main goal of TASing this particular title, not for an extremely fast paced entertaining 1 hour AVI.
Yes.
Looks very optimal and well-made. Although i'm not too famaliar with this game, I can see how you did the fastest possible routes in the levels.
Overall, the game can only be SO entertaining. It's kind of in the same boat as the Pokemon TAS'es. But, you did a good job working with what you had to make it as entertaining and optimal as possible so if that doesn't deserve a yes then I don't know what does.
I have been using this site for about 3 years but never posted before, however I thought I could add to the discussion about the goals.
I think the best way to define "all temples/dungeons" would be dungeons which have a boss which drops a heart piece and transports you out of the dungeon. The "all trials" goal is an additional goal, and one could make the argument that since you are transported out of the trial, there is a definitive completion point.
There can still be three distinct categories: any% (can use the RBA to skip all dungeons), all temples/dungeons/trials (this run), and a 100% (same standards as SDA). I personally think there can be unique entertainment value in all three categories.
To my best guess, I'm sure Ganon's trials are a part of the dungeon Ganondorf's Castle. Thats just my guess though, I'm not so sure.
They are.
It was decided to do the trials when the run was being made, it might disobey logic with the term "no major skip" and may contradict the skipping in the water temple.
But it was decided to do the trials as it is considered a major skip to skip them.
The Ice Cavern and BotW aren't considered dungeons because of the reasons stated by Satyrium.
i would consider them to be mini dungeons. they're not true dungeons because they don't have a boss, but they both have important items that you (normally) need to complete the game.
Right. Like I said before, saying that BotW and Ice Cavern are mini dungeons is technically correct.
when bloob or I or anyone else say Dungeon. We're referring to the dungeons that contain bosses that ultimately give you the medallions.
If the run's goal is to get all 6 medallions and 3 gems, and BotW and IC can be skipped to get the medallions and gems faster, why do them?
I thought the goals of this TAS were kinda arbitrary, but seeing that a new any% run will skip virtually everything, it seems like a good option, without having to do 100%. An any% run and this run are enough...
This. Also, it seems like a conventient excuse to obsolete the published OoT run, even though it's in another category (since temporarily having a single category is better than having a tremendously outdated run that doesn't offer any additional content). Win-win solution?
I agree. I don't think that run offers anything that this run doesn't.
the run's goals might not be clear here. if you want to get technical, this run fails to complete its goals. Child Spirit isn't completed, and Bottom of the Well and Ice Cavern aren't even accessed.
I'd have to agree. I also don't really see the point of doing an all dungeons/temples/trials run if you're going to skip huge chunks of said dungeons. While I have no problem with the actual category, I feel that a movie that attempts this category shouldn't... break the game so much. And I feel BotW and Ice Cavern should be completed too. Or at least BotW. It had a Dungeon Map and Compass after all.
Regardless of category issues, the optimization was wonderful. I loved watching the game breaking glitches. Passing the guards on the way to Zelda was great!
I might be speaking too out of line here not being the author. But the goal wasn't necessarily a "No Major Skip Run". The fact that it's labeled this makes it no surprise that debates such as this are happening.
The Run's major goal was to get all 3 gems, and 6 medallions, not to clear all of the temples. The Ganon trials were asked to be added in due to viewer interest in the OoT Thread when the run was just beginning. I can't remember if bloobiebla had it planned to do the trials initially
Although BoTW could be considered a dungeon (technically it is, look up dungeon on dictionary.com and go to BoTW and look around.), however It wasn't one of the major dungeons that link is asked to revive the sages in when he becomes an adult. If you ask me, bloob clearing BoTW and Ice cavern is just about as effective as him getting Epona. (Iron boots get access to water temple just as much as having epona jump over the lake hylia gates does.)
It's obvious it doesn't completely meld to one category, but that's what makes it so appealing to me personally.
Again, I'm just sharing my views on the run. I don't claim to be 100% right.
d) It was in the goals (All dungeons/temples/trials)
the Trials just seem arbitrary compared to everything else. you don't get a stone or medallion from completing them, a force field just lowers. instead of treating each Trial as a minidungeon, i would consider Ganon's Castle the dungeon, with the Trials just being parts of the dungeon. if 90% of the Water Temple can be skipped, there shouldn't be anything wrong with bypassing the force field.
the run's goals might not be clear here. if you want to get technical, this run fails to complete its goals. Child Spirit isn't completed, and Bottom of the Well and Ice Cavern aren't even accessed.
BotW and Ice Cavern aren't dungeons nor are they trials.
Explanation : I don't think this category is important. Either fastest possible (skipping temples) or 100% are the categories that appeal more to me.
i disagree. i believe a low% run, a natural route run such as this and a 100% run can coexist. it's what Super Metroid is (currently) employing. in Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow, an all souls run wouldn't obsolete the current non-glitched run. and there's also the three categories of Super Mario 64 runs: 0 Star, 70 Star (natural route), and 120 Star.
this is all based on theory. i'll have my verdict for this particular case once the torrent finishes.
I agree. Why bother being limited to one criteria when you can easily contain 3 that fits the tastes of all viewers.
Not to sound mean, but what was the point to this avi? Was it intentional to make the graphics different?
The point of the teaser is to show what to expect from my AVI once it is finished. In this particular case, I am using a celshaded texture pack to replace those in-game. So yes, it was intentional. Trust me, it will look better at 640x480.
I'm a bit behind on duksandfish, but I'm trying things a little different. Here's a teaser of what I'm trying:
http://www.filedropper.com/lozoot-tas-bloobiebla-celtest
I'll probably do the whole thing at 640x480, since it looks a bit lame so small.
I will of course be encoding a "normal" run too if and when it's accepted.
Not to sound mean, but what was the point to this avi? Was it intentional to make the graphics different?
As a personal friend of the author, I vote yes. I have seen this run grow from a mere rupee route 8 months ago. It's awesome to have watched it grow into the run it's become.
My dad is working for a new video game retailer and coming up with a marketing angle to help promote them efficiently. If you're a gamer, are bored, and feel like helping him and myself out greatly, please fill this out. [=
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Arrows do 2 damage, Fire and Ice arrows do 2 damage, and Light arrows do 4. However, for some reason, Twinmold Blue is weak to Fire arrows and Twinmold red is weak to Ice. Further, unlike other enemies in the game, said weakness means they take triple damage from said arrows instead of the usual double. So the damage breakdown is
Twinmold Red
Arrows-2
Fire Arrows-2
Ice Arrows-6
Light Arrows-4
Twinmold Blue
Arrows-2
Fire Arrows-6
Ice Arrows-2
Light Arrows-4
Now, the only thing I don't know is whether it's faster to hit Blue with 2 Fire Arrows or 4 regular arrows after it resurfaces for the first time. While it's burrowing in after its entrance scene, it is definitely faster to hit it with 2 Fire Arrows, and Arrows are easily the fastest method for Red. Unfortunately, 3 arrows shoot in about the same time frame as one Fire Arrow, so the times for the 2 Fire Arrows/4 regular arrows are very close. I don't know which is faster, and I'm not going to bother finding out until the improvement to the any% run gets to that point.
Anyways, this new revelation about Twinmold's elemental weaknesses sort of makes me want to see what other enemies have weird weaknesses.
This is interesting. Do you have any sources or is it just from trying out different arrows/twinmold for yourself?
This is something my friend and I (this friend happens to be Bloobiebla who's making the No Major Skip OoT TAS) made about 6 months ago for fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKWXuKeSGiI
