They crop the whole outside layout (as can be seen in my last sgdq run here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtZ7CzbxBFM )
We could potentially do gen 3, but it would require a change of layouts, which may be a problem :(
Edit: actually it looks like they only cropped the boarder, so gen 3 should be ok!
Hello everybody, Shenanagans here. You may remember me from around the time Brock Through Walls was discovered.
For those of you that follow Speedrunning you may know that a Pokemon glitch exhibition has made it into AGDQ 2016 this year! In order for this to be as successful as possible I am reaching out to various communities for support/help and would love to hear any ideas that you all have! My knowledge from the games mostly comes from knowledge of speedrunning glitches so I am fairly useless when it comes to more intricate setups.
We will be limited to gens 1/2 as we need to use the gameboy player for these glitches, and the glitches will need to be preform-able on console as well.
Let me know here if you have anything in mind!
Now I'm wondering what happens if you did that in a gym or some building.
Also, forced reset? Are there any triggers other than reset?
You cant keep the BTW Stats as you enter a building, however you can get the Jack glitch item in the underflow menu, which allows you to deload trainers from the overworld until you view your pokemon menu.
I wonder if you can do the trainer fly glitch after doing the safari zone glitch? (like walk in front of the trainer right when the timer hits 0) It may be impractical, but I wonder if it can be done in Pokemon Brown. (holding start to enter the menu in front of a trainer is not possible in the hack)
No it doesnt allow you to setup trainer fly. The only ways that I know that you can setup trainer fly on a non max ranged trainer is by either getting a wild encounter in front of them and dying, or by using the "Jack Fly" glitch (use the jack item or its equivalents and walking in front of a trainer and flying away)
There's a problem with the Pidgey route, and I'm not sure exactly why. I end up stuck in something similar to the faint Trainer-Fly glitch, where I can't talk to most NPCs and I need to use a PC to save and restart.
Yeah this is an issue which we just recently discovered. 16 hp Pidgey puts you into the trainer fly state which forces a reset in Safferon. 8, 10, 13, 15, and 17 HP Pidgey all work fine and don't force a reset.
So 4 saves sounds ok I guess. Hard but doable. And not so insane that it will take months to get it... <_<
Also, I just finished a testrun on Pokemon Red (so I had to faint in the Dojo...) and got 15 minutes. 14 is probably possible. 13 though? I'm not sure.
4 saves sounds pretty reasonable. 2 would be the full on yolo while 4 will be a fairly safe run.
My TAS estimate was 12 minutes so 14 would be a reasonable segmented run (TAS saves a minute or two because the charmander route.
Are you talking about an in-game time of 0:12 or an out-of-game time of 12:xx.xx? Either way, that's a huge improvement, and I'll take your estimate as probably correct.
I'm going to start manually testing different DVs for Charmander to see if they can achieve Brock Through Walls. The DVs in MrWint's test run, 1024, are essentially a worst-case scenario - the attack is far too low but HP is going to be a point too high.
Actually 1024 is genius because that would correspond to our coordinates!
I wonder if you can get the glitch to work via trainer ID so we could just simply get any charmander and use it.
And my estimate is around 12 minutes Real time, closer to 11 In game time.
So 4 saves sounds ok I guess. Hard but doable. And not so insane that it will take months to get it... <_<
Also, I just finished a testrun on Pokemon Red (so I had to faint in the Dojo...) and got 15 minutes. 14 is probably possible. 13 though? I'm not sure.
4 saves sounds pretty reasonable. 2 would be the full on yolo while 4 will be a fairly safe run.
My TAS estimate was 12 minutes so 14 would be a reasonable segmented run (TAS saves a minute or two because the charmander route.
Maybe the chicken way out, but one could opt to save after death-warping from the Meowth. =P
Actually, thinking purely in terms of segmented, you can easily go all the way from BtW to the Meowth encounter and save until you reach Route 7. It would be annoying, but not too tough.
What item do you use generally to warp? I just pick Ether and toss 16.
Yeah judging saves would be a struggle cause there is so much yolo in this run lol. I would probably save at Brock through walls (required), and after the death warp. Though this is possible in 1 segment. Just would take tons of attempts lol.
I usually use the trainer ID to warp but I'm gonna start using the rival name item from naming rival "Z " you need to toss 9 iirc.
Oh man, can you imagine the horror of getting that last sequence right for segmented?
Get a first grass encounter Bellsprout with 31-32 Special (1/4 chance for right DV). Which grass exactly isn't even that important since you can choose the heal moment anyway. Escape on the second turn. Get the items in Celadon -> Deathwarp and fight MissingNo.
Oh, I just realised. You have to get damaged for Potion healing anyway, so scratch Potion as the 255 item, because it wastes a turn. So, double X-Defend, then catch MissingNo on the first ball -> End-warp.
Fun...
Gotta add to that that you need a meowth in front of the trainer And it needs to bite turn 1.
And finally the worst part, even if that all works you need a good ID item otherwise you lose time tossing the roaming TM.
Alternatively name the rival "Z " (that's a capital z followed by a space) and you will get a better item for warping (though I haven't tested it yet)
Edit: nevermind, the Old Man Potion is faster by roughly a second.
What do you mean by Old Man Potion? There's a kid on route 1 who gives the player a potion, but I can't imagine the hidden potion near the Old Man is any faster than the hidden potion in Viridian forest, especially since it might be possible to jingle cancel the one in Viridian after fighting the trainer.
The fastest potion is the one directly in front of the weedle trainer, followed by the tree potion, followed by the PC potion, the other two are roughly 2 seconds slower.
Looks like I'll be doing a run with Bulba/Pidgey then. ;P
(currently doing a testrun on the emulator to see how stuff goes)
As for items, I think it is best to buy 2 Poke Balls, a Burn Heal and a Parlyz Heal in Viridian City, get the Antidote and get the Potion next to the Bug Catcher and a Potion from whichever one is faster between the old man and the extra one in Viridian Forest (isn't the secret pick up sound longer? I would have to test that). Finally, we get TM18 and the Fresh Water. Isn't that right?
Edit: nevermind, the Old Man Potion is faster by roughly a second.
Are you doing abra-less?
Your final items should be
<some> to catch missingno
Item
Item
Item
Water
Xdefend
The 3 fastest items to get are probably antidote, guard spec, and x acc to avoid scrolling in marts as much as possible.
I'm not sure if pidgey survives a sky attack from missingno unless maybe a level 5...so redbar may not be an option. In which case we just need any 4th item since x defends are low in the shop.
Ah yes. Do we know exactly what the DVs need to be?
(before I start a new run with Bulbasaur only to have it discarded halfway through... :P)
I honestly don't know a lot about the programming side of pokemon, but I would assume only very specific DV's would work. Trainer ID might be another option as well.
There's but one problem. Remember that Charmander's base Special is only 50 in gen I. :( He would need level 8 for that.
I was thinking that we can catch ourselves a level 4 Pidgey with 17 HP, get to Route 7, get Poisoned and heal with a Potion when necessary. Like after 16 steps for example.
We wouldn't be using charmanders special. With the TAS route we would simply use specific DV's on charmander to activate the glitch. We don't need 16 special, but just DV's that line up with the coordinates of the tile to the right of the Brock skip guy.
With Brock Through Walls, is it known whether Cooltrainer glitch or item underflow will now be the faster strategy?
I feel like trainer fly would be faster. You can catch a ditto in about 12 minutes or so, but you would need to find a way to glitch to the end of the game via cooltrainer, which to my knowledge requires specific DV's and Trainer ID.
Oh wow. I missed a lot.
I spend my yesterday evening on recording a run up to Viridian Forest. I don't think my current Bulba can reach 16 Special... (I only reset for low HP/Def and high Atk).
I know that 10/16 bulbasaur can hit 16 DV at level 8 or sooner. You can check at level 6 for stats.
12 special at level 6 = reset
13 special at level 6 = go to level 8 ( 6/8 DV's will work)
14 special at level 6 = go to level 7 (3/7 DV's will work)
Who would we fight instead? Remember, you need to fight a trainer to trigger the next stage of the Trainer-Fly glitch.
Surprisingly with a death trainer fly (where you get the encounter in front of a trainer and die to setup the trainer fly) you don't need to fight an additional trainer to get the wild pokemon to appear.
This tactic was used in the old NSC route to get Nidoking before Brock.
Yeah I'm thinking for like a segmented run bulbasaur + pidgey is the way to go (I'm also using this method in my speedruns)
For a TAS you would just get good DV's on charmander and use him for the run. Charm dies to meowth bite, and can get poisoned by bellsprout. I think 20 hp will be enough to make it to the fresh water floor.
I'm pretty sure wild bellsprout can have 31/32 special at level 19-21 so if that's the case we could skip the dojo fight entirely.
Might mess with this tonight lol.
Also you could just get DV's on any pokemon that would allow the Brock through walls setup to work (though I haven't looked into which DV's would work)
This would mean squirtle or charmander would be better (can get poisoned and have faster battles)
I'm speaking more from a TAS perspective.
Getting poisoned and dying while in the mart would save the entire walk back to Safferon (and we would need a way to re enter Safferon due to us not having teleport to get back)
We could also just die to a wild pokemon in the grass like meowth again, but getting poisoned would save a 45 second walk.
We also found a new way to setup the Brock through walls glitch that may make the starter not matter as much. You need a pokemon with 16 special in slot 1 of your party, and a pidgey with 8, 10, 13, 15, 16, or 17 HP remaining in slot 2.
We could possibly catch a wild level 5 pikachu (I'm almost sure they hit 16 special) and catch a pidgey on route 2.
This might be faster then the PC method ( we would Deposit bulba and pidgey in Safferon center when we heal there)
Level 7 bulbasaur can hit 16 special though so I would need to time pikachu vs bulbasaur...
Hey everyone, decided to make an account to join all this discussion.
You are correct in saying that we can skip abra with a death warp, it would save around a minute off of the route I posted.
One other large time save is that you really want to red-bar the Missingno catch (it saves 19 seconds due to missingno's cry length)
so my thought would be to setup the death warp on route 6, get poisoned by a wild bellsprout on route 7.
Walk to the Celedon Mart and buy a greatball, a fresh water, an x speed, and an X defend.
This gets us to 6 items and we have x defends in slot 6.
We can then faint to the poison to get back into safferon. which from there we can simply encounter the missingno, use 2 x defends, get hit to redbar by sky attack, and catch it.
Then we can get underflow and warp to the end.
The only issue with this is that we would need to use a different starter because bulba's immunity to poison...