Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
symbolic X wrote:
<h4><ul><li> Utilizes a robot player (BasicBot) </li><li> Utilizes frame counter, frame advance, RAM watch, subpixel positions etc. </li><li> Colors a robot </li></ul></div></h4>
What emulator did you use to actually do that? I never seen a version of FCE ultra that would allow you to utilize such a thing.
0.98.16 version haves BasicBot feature, memory watch (RAM watch) etc. but you need to find addresses yourself and frame advance and counter is appeared almost in the every version I know.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
I did few experiments with this game, basically I should be a bit over 500 frames ahead after that screenscrolling in clashman stage but I wanted to leave it as a demonstration and to show how that scrolling can be done really fast.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/52868662/Shinryuu-rnc.fcm
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
girfanatic501 wrote:
I don't think there is a reason to vote no, or even meh, for no means you don't like extreme glitching and pure awesomnss, and meh means that you don't really care. I, for one, love this run, and find no reason for a no, or a meh. Therefore, I have no choice but to click Yes.
@ UraniumArchor: Shinny, AF, and Baxter were working on MM4, and I'm in the process with a Japanese friend on MM3.
EDIT1: Sorry for that previous line it looked a bit stupid. What Baxter wrote is a good start with :)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
Bisqwit wrote:
With the huge wait to get Rockman fall 128 screenfuls (128*256/12 frames = 2730 frames <sup>[1]</sup>), can this trick be useful?
I don't think there will be any use for it in the end because it takes way too much time to perform (almost 1m 20-30s) But it's a new trick that collectors will love =)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
UraniumAnchor wrote:
Wow, that's a nice find. I'll have to work that into the run later when I go back and tweak the stage, there's a couple other changes I need to make to it as well. Also solves the Item 1 'problem'.
Seems to be the 'lag making an extra exit' bug. I'll have to think about other places you might be able to use that, though nothing comes to mind right this minute.
It's also known as screenscrolling found by FinalFighter a long time ago.
It is extremely rare in real Rockman 2 but in the no constancy there should more objects in the screen so you're going get equipped with higher success rate.
Minimal requirement can be like 2xitem1 and 2 enemies to make it to happen (I spent over a year to do that in the Crashman stage myself)
Here's the full list what causes it to happen (scroll a bit down):http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=325&start=700
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
Here's the movie I made, for some reason my ROM checksum is different even I used Rockman 2 - Dr. Wily no Nazo (J).nes
and latest patch from the IKA's site.. but everything seems to work out correctly so no worries :)
EDIT1
I found out that it is faster to hit 2 times per one shot in a correct position in flashman fight.
In this movie I used that method once because I didn't find a fast place where to abuse it anymore and didn't get any new ideas so I decide to link my movie here but I still think there is some improvements I haven't noticed yet.
Heatman = 123 frames gained
Airman = 87 frames gained
Flashman = 94 frames gained
Total = 304 frames gained
Movie:
Flashman beaten
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
Bisqwit wrote:
Shinryuu wrote:
If someone haves Rockman 2 (glitch, technique etc.) related questions feel free to contact me through irc or e-mail.
Or me.
Guess we should look into this in more detail. The screenshots look good, but it may be biased.
I agree and still this hack gives me a really nostalgic feeling for some reason maybe the new graphics, hardness and musics are the main reasons. It's going to be pretty interesting to see how glitches are going to work out because item1s won't move any further up and item2 can be used as a replacement in a later levels.
UraniumAnchor used a clever boss order to start with Heatman stage to obtain item1 and abuse it nicely out in Flashman stage and in the Airman stage you need Flashman's weapon to stop the slowness of the stage.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
If someone haves Rockman 2 (glitch, technique etc.) related questions feel free to contact me through irc or e-mail.
And also UraniumAnchor's work looked pretty good so far even it is one of he's first TAS attempts. :)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
If this is possible to do you don't have to move to another screen + drop, so it would be a nice time saver.
Succeeding possibility of this glitch is extremely low because death+delay must occur instead of delay.
You can't use any item1s there because screen is "shifted" but the hope stands in Heatman's weapon and it also shortens the black screen time after dying.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
Bisqwit wrote:
2) This glitch is not limited to scrolling. In fact, any time the SwitchBank routine is invoked by a code that does not expect the Y register value to change, something weird can happen, if only the NMI occurs at the right moment!
Sounds like you have something really interesting in your mind now :)
...If you mean something weird, let's make it possible to move through 8-bit dimensions of Rockman 2 and beat that game less than 10 seconds!!
Incredible discovery from you guys!
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
emu wrote:
Incredible work, shinryuu!
I admittedly didn't realize how well this run was done until I had an insightful IRC conversation with shinryuu where he explained, that he tested different strategies reducing lag several (!) rooms ahead. Watching the input file, for example one might notice that slides are even cancelled in order to reduce lag.
Technically easily one of the best tases here. Despite the fact, that you apparently like this kind of work, I am thankful, that you went through all this, in the end providing a first class movie.
On a side note, you completed this run really fast, right? I think merely a month ago you weren't even at the mr. X stages.
Thanks for your comment!
I used like a 6-7 months to do this run, before that i made some test movies too. That's almost correct, i was in the Mr. X Stages about a 3 weeks ago or a month.
Mr. X Stages were really easy to understand because they were simple and you just needed to know few simple things where to change your weapon, shoot or slide.
Same goes to Dr. Wily Stages they were really simple and easy to understand and i found many good ways to solve strategies there.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
Sir VG wrote:
Couple spots I'm curious about, if nothing else.
Dr. Wily Stage 1
For the boss i found the key route so i was able to get that elevator to spawn so fast as possible and shoot every time as possible.
Is that why you jumped high into the door before you entered the boss room?
That's correct, didn't find a better solution for it.
Dr. Wily Stage 3
Found a technique that saves a lot of time in the boss re-fights. I Changed my weapon after i defeated the boss because i realized that it tooks much more time to change your weapon outside of the bossroom sometimes.
You did that on all bosses, except between Centaurman and Windman. For Windman, you changed weapons at him, instead of at the defeat of the prior boss (Centaurman). Curious as to why?
There was a manipulation problem or something that makes it slower to hit windman when you change your weapon after beating the centaurman, same happened in the previous movie too. When you changed the weapon in the Windman you were able to hit 30-40 frames faster.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
Comicalflop wrote:
But you, good sir, did not fail. I haven't watched a good Megaman run since.... gosh, Quadrun? Wowzee! long time!
I still will never figure out how a NES Megaman movie of 30 minutes takes the cake with 212,000 rerecords, but just goes to show there is nothing you won't test til the ends of the earth.
How would you like your yes vote? On a platter served by virgins, entwined in 13 sexy anacondas that are mating, or 1st class?
"Of course ;)"
But here's some clear answers for your "question"
First, this game haves really much lag also mechanism, programming, randomness is really weird in this game. If you combine these few facts you're going to have thousands of different tiny strategies to choose if you can find them out. I tried to test them all out possible, that's the main reason for my high re-record.
This is totally different game if compared to previous Mega Man series.
Second, I'm a stubborn person who loves to work really hard. I figured many things out from this game after and after when i moved forward. My own ideas are running in my mind like a rain in a stormy night, i often did some unexpected movements in a purpose in a particular places where i was sure they can help me to see if something good happens and it did help me.
Third, You had to test many ways when you beat up the bosses first time, there is a possibility to handle lag out really well but first you need to do these : correct your position, boss's position, time a good place where lag isn't so high, walk right, slide or shoot in a right time.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
I played most of the greatest SNES games about a 10-11 years back, i remember things that i wanted to do better, being luck manipulated in RPG games like Chrono Trigger, Tales of Phantasia, Seiken Densetsu and Final Fantasy game series. I usually speed-upped the game since i bored to the intros and skipped some speech parts.
When i began to play Megaman X games with emulator i discovered and found it entertaining that i can use turbo-buttons and slowdown to make movements much cooler. After that i tried to search for emulators that supports some kind of (re)recording feature and so on.
...until in somewhere around a spring 2005 i saw Morimoto's, FinalFighter's Rockman2 movie, it inspired me so much that i contacted Bisqwit with my emails and i asked (spammed) how to do glitches in that game, and i began to do my own _real_ TASing attempts in Rockman2. So that's what i can call my real first experience of diving to the TASing world.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
Finally you did it! This run is amazing, i saw everywhere how well you optimized your movements and situations.
i can call your work highest work as possible. Really enjoyable run +soundtrack.
Back-flipping through dimensions.. eliminating everything that faces your might, Yes vote from me!
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
I would start TAS all again if there is a frame or few frame improvement in the beginning in long movie.
The most hardest thing i have ever faced is screenscrollings in (crashman,woodman "upscroll withouth sprites",bubbleman stages) in rockman 2 because screenscrollings happens really rarely and my time is limited in these three stages, never succeeded expect wasting days with a random key input.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
Current published run had over 200k (BisqBot's re-records were not calculated.) re-records and there is a good reason why there is so much of them. I'm a person who tries to do everything to find even little things out, i usually spend almost a whole day to a little things because i want to find minimal improvements.
Re-records were made by my hands and thousands of different tests like, starting some stage few frames later to see if it is faster in the end, killing the boss in different positions, entering the room in different (frame and positions) because there is a possibility to gain 1-2 frames. I just wanted to test many things out and to be sure about everything.
Newest WIP (different movie, i started everything from the start) had 19-20k re-records and there is a straight, natural answer for it because i have gained much experience from Rockman games and i know really well how the game works and think about my movements and so on. And why do you guys expect to see high re-records count to game like this? It's easy to perform glitches and everything expect re-record count eater screenscrollings.
Hope this helped, thanks.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
Maza wrote:
Looks as frame-perfect as usual :P. Always a pleasure to watch your runs.
By the way, have you thought about using Item 1 in Flashman stage? Could it be more beneficial than using Item 3 in Heatman stage? What I'm suggesting is that if you switch the bossorder from flash-heat-air... to heat-flash-air... Though i have a vague feeling that someone has tried it.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
Flip wrote:
Brilliant so far, but what are you aiming for?
Are you trying to get above the ground and walk on to the boss, or use the ground to clip your way?
i'm trying to move next room like in the airmanstage but this time i'm scrolling down to move on the roof of last room :)
this movie includes that crashscrolling too so you can see what there exactly happens, this is my old version that got improved.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1924415306/rm2bubblescrl-shn.fcm
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
Hello.
I'm not offering anything special this time. Now i'm back with the 11 frame improvement thought. I still SUPER interested about this run and i LOVE to work on it.
I was able to broke flashman's framerule by sacrificing one frame for some reason.
This movie end at the place where you need to do that scrolling. You can ask me about this situation, help or anything if you want to. I want to make sure to you guys how hard this is to do in that place + still having badluck.
Hope you get some enjoyment from this ;) babies~
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1644530355/rm2crash.fcm
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
Guybrush wrote:
I know it's not Christmas just yet, but it's soon enough, so I decided to dig up this thread.
I don't personally care that much for Christmas nowdays, but I hope everybody is able to relax and spend time with the ones they care about on their days off from work and school and such.
Agreed with Guybrush. I'm really positive person and there is no any particular reason for caring about christmas, i just feel good like any other days, weeks, months or everyday :)
But i hope a good and calm days to you TASers, sleep well, have fun, sleep well, meet your friends and eat so much as you can :) Merry Christmas!
EDIT1, This seems to be.. old thread? oh boy, well its nothing ;)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(539)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
Welcome to the world of Rockman :P
I'm really amazed about this, you totally managed to destory this game with your toprated work. I really enjoyed to watch the whole run from the start to end.
It was nice when you went to shopping for unique items, collected cd's at the second time when you entered the stages because you were able to save a huge amount of time just glitching around! This run was like a art in some ways and this reminds me about the NES ages of Rockman glitching.
Unbelievable and toprated optimization and work from you this was really entertaining. I can sense your motivation of improvement, will to test every single frame out to know what is the fastest way in the end.
I'm waiting other works from you! yay, you know what?
You are now equipped with a extra weapon called "Yes vote-Buster" :)
But you, good sir, did not fail. I haven't watched a good Megaman run since.... gosh, Quadrun? Wowzee! long time! I still will never figure out how a NES Megaman movie of 30 minutes takes the cake with 212,000 rerecords, but just goes to show there is nothing you won't test til the ends of the earth. How would you like your yes vote? On a platter served by virgins, entwined in 13 sexy anacondas that are mating, or 1st class?
