Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
In level 3, do you have to kill the boss to beat the level, or did you just kill it for the bombs?
Need full bombs for 7. Its faster to get the bombs from the red goriya room, but I couldn't get bomb drops from them going straight there. Could have also tried killing just 1 dodongo then going there. Its better than trying to find bombs outside. Even with famtasia, I can't get any enemy I want to drop whatever item I want, whenever I want.
In level 9 in the room with lots of keeses, I think you could have gone up, left, and right, instead of left, up, and right.
Might be faster. Walking half-room length vs pushing the block an extra time.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
NESRocks wrote:
in fact i think that if u just get in there ducked, hold forward and down, and start jumping, mario will move pixel per pixel for each jump, so u can get there without p-wing and without the glitch. it's very slow.
Yes, I know that, but what point are you trying to make? You can also get through the game just by jumping alone with no running. You're obviously not expected to though. They didn't make that long tunnel for you to duck-jump all the way to the end. If they didn't expect you to use the wall glitch(shouldn't even be called a glitch), then they wouldn't have made that long tunnel or any of the low level blocks that you can slide under. The point I'm trying to make is that something so commonly used (and intended to be used) in this game shouldn't be banned in a specific place just because it makes for a good shortcut.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
I say it should be allowed. If you go to world 5-1, you will find a long narrow tunnel leading to the music box. The only way to get to the other side, other than using P-wing, is to duck into the entrance and let the whole "moving through walls" thing take you to the music box. It's definitely their intention for you to use it here. Generally, if you slide and duck under some low blocks to hit them, the game still makes you pass through them when you stand up. Anyone who has played through this game has used it all the time and not even noticed. So, if you can use it in these instances, why would it be a problem to use it anywhere else in the game? You can use these examples to argue using the final level shortcut. Personally, I'm not very fond of the rules that the TG people come up with for some games, and it's why I'm hesitant to submit anything to them. My runs always use tricks and glitches that they would probably ban.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Michael Fried wrote:
I have a question about level 7. If you start out by going left and taking the stairway, and then push the block in the bubble room, would the bottom door open? If it does then maybe you could go down, right, down, up, right, and down, and if that works you could skip a big part of the level.
Once you get into that room, both doors stay shut. Only way out is through the stairs or Up+A. As for the final key, I think the one in L6 is the fastest. The key is just sitting there, so you dont have to fight. Every other available key requires you to clear the room or is more than 1 screen off path.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Level 1: 2-1=1
Level 2: 1+6-2=5
Level 6 (just ladder): 5+1-1=5
Level 8: 5+0-2=3
Level 4: 3+2-1=4
Level 5: 4+1-2=3
Level 6: 3+1-1=3
Level 3: 3+1-2=2
Level 7: 2+1-1=2
Level 9: 2+1-3=0
Ok, so I should get the final key from L6 - start, up, left. If I get that key though, it will have to be during the 2nd time in L6. You need the ladder to get that key, which I don't have when I enter, and when I do get the ladder, I Up+A right away.
L1: 0+2-1=1 ; 2B
L2: 1+6-2=5 ; 3B
(L6): 5-1=4
L8: 4+0-2=2 ; 1B
L4: 2+2-1=3 ; 2B
L5: 3+1-2=2 ; 0B
L6: 2+2-1=3 ; 3B
L3: 3+1-2=2 ; 1B
L7: 2+1-1=2 ; 0B
L9: 2+1-3=0 ; 4B
I've already tested the key plan by playing through all 9 levels, and all keys and doors are accounted for. It should be finished by the end of the week.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
L1: 0+2-1=1 ; 2B
L2: 1+6-2=5 ; 3B
(L6): 5-1=4
L8: 4+0-2=2 ; 1B
L4: 2+2-1=3 ; 2B
L5: 3+1-2=2 ; 0B
L6: 2+1-1=2 ; 3B
L3: 2+1-2=1 ; 1B
L7: 1+1-1=1 ; 0B
L9: 1+1-3=-1 ; 4B (still need 1 more)
You missed the other 2 locked doors in L9(can't go into one-way room). I'm still deciding where to get the final key for 9. The 3 choices are:
1.L4, 1 room right of start(turns dark, needs to be cleared)
2.L5, the bottom left keese room(turns dark, needs to be cleared)
3.L6, up then left of start(longer walk)
Edit: I just thought of an idea. Do you think it would save time to get the magical key in the 2nd quest? It's less of a detour than in the first quest and the 2nd quest also has harder fighting than the first quest, so skipping some of the keys would save more time.
Tricked by the one-way room again :). Its actually a much longer detour than the first quest. Its a detour of 11 rooms, and 4 of those rooms need to be cleared. If you look on the map, you have to go all the way around to the bubble room, then from the wallmaster room go left. With the new route, only 1 of the keys will take a while (see the 3 choices).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Where in level 7 do you need the ladder? You start out by going left, then take the stairway, then go right, down, right, down, take the stairway, and left 3 times.
You can't go left. In the room with the 3 bubbles, pushing the tile doesn't make the doors open. It just makes the stairway back to start reappear. That room is more like a one-way exit. To finish 7, you need to go right, which requires the ladder. Then you have to fight through 3 blue darknut rooms, a manhandla, and a blue gohma(you need to do L5 beforehand) before you get to the gleeok. Its hard to tell which path to take only by looking at the map, because there are a lot of one-way rooms that have doors that don't open.
What's your route?
1.First sword
2.Up+A
3.L1
4.Up+A
5.Gambling x1
6.Blue candle
7.L2
8.100 rupees
9.L6(just ladder)
10.Bracelet
11.Arrows
12.L8
13.White Sword
14.L4
15.Up+A
16.L5
17.Up+A
18.Warp to near 6
19.L6
20.Up+A
21.Warp to near 4
22.L3
23.L7
24.Whistle to 1
25.L9
I timed it at 9 seconds faster on the overworld than the route you posted(switching 6 before 7) and its around 20-30 seconds faster in the dungeons because it get the 2 on-path keys from 4 and 5(which require the ladder) and it has white sword for 4(which has some tough battles and 6 rooms need to be cleared). 8 only needs 1 blue goriya room to be cleared, easy with bombs.
Were you able to get the candle between 1 and 2, or did the enemies refuse to drop any bombs and prevent you from playing the gambling game?
Yea, I got the 10 rupees, bombs, and candle. It took a LOT of tries though.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
KingTT wrote:
That glitch is real
I have gotten it to work on a real NES copy of MM2
What exactly did you do when you got to Airman? I've went in there with all the weapons and items and tried everything.
I was thinking Morimoto can do:
-Bubbleman
-Heatman
-Clashman
-Airman(warp)
-Wily 2-6
Does he already know about that glitch, and is it going to be in his video?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Bisqwit wrote:
I'm already on my way in Rockman 1, but I've also been drooling over Mega Man 3..6. So far I haven't found a way to do it in any of them. But I still recommend the authors of those movies to explore ways to abuse the collision checks. It's usually a matter of ONE pixel position that will take you inside a wall/ceiling instead of dropping/bouncing.
I know Megaman 1 and 2 are really bugged out, but 3-6 seem far from it. The ladder trick from MM2 doesn't work in 3, and rush can't get you into the walls like the items can. The only place in MM3 that I know of that you can go through walls is the blocks in Sparkman's stage, but there's no speed advantage in doing this. The only glitch I can think of is the one in Geminiman's level. If someone can find some ways to get in the walls of MM3, I'd gladly redo the whole video. The time attacks I want to do the most are really bugged out ones, like MM2 or Genisto's SMB2. They're great to watch.
On another note, I saw a glitch for warping to Wily's Castle L2 here:
http://kontek.net/davidwonn/nes.html#M
I was thinking that if you can get this trick to work, you can easily finish the game in under 15min. Just get across the spikes using the helicopter robots and go from there. I think this trick is a fake though. I haven't been able to get it working on the US or Jap version.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
I've been really busy lately, but now I'm back on this thing. I finished the first 2 levels. Michael, the route you posted wont work unless you do 6 right after 5 (you need ladder for 7) and also need to go off path at least 3 times to get the required amount of keys, so I decided to just use my own route. In 2nd quest, there's not enough on path keys to open all the doors, so you have to make some small detours into other rooms. The times:
L1 = 1:07
L2 = 2:34
Whistle to L9 doesn't work here either unfortunately. Its a long walk.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Arc wrote:
(Sorry to get off of the topic but.. do you have a specific plan in mind? (and what about TF? e.g. rocket jump courses))
Well I was just planning to do a speed run of game. I've been doing quake speed run for like 6 years now. I dont know what's going on in TF right now. Any competitions still in TF?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Michael Fried wrote:
I'm starting to lose interest in solving the 2nd quest also. Didn't I already solve it with the route I posted in the other topic? If you take some time to study the map, you'll see that planning a 2nd quest route is much simpler than planning a 1st quest route.
Alright, if you're sure about it, then Ill just use the route you posted then.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Btw, how are you doing with your speed runs? :)
Ive been playing Mario 3, LoZ, Megaman 2. Also thinking about getting back into quake and beating the Nightmare run on Arc's site instead of doing a snes run.
TSA, Michael, and I have been posting about LoZ speed run routes at ZHQ.
Is one of you going to do a full Zelda speed run?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Ramzi wrote:
I should have known this would happen.
Haha, it was fun solving the first quest, regularly. I have no interest in doing the second quest, first quest swordless, and second quest swordless. They would be fun to watch though.
Hmm, I know what you mean. I'm starting to lose interest in solving the 2nd quest also. Ive been doing speed runs and working on cobra triangle rather than working on zelda. 2nd quest thread doesnt seem so active either. So I dunno, would anyone still be interested in seeing me finish 2nd quest?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
I finished world 1 so far on the US version. Here are my times:
1-1: 294
1-2: 293
1-3: 294
1-4 (getting P-wing): 223
1-f (S)(getting whistle): 286
1-5 (R): 286
1-6 (R): 291
It took me a long time to figure out how to do the early acceleration in
1-2 and 1-3. Also, 1-5 would be much faster as small mario.
I think world 7 would be fun for a speed competition, especially with the pipe maze levels.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
I think it would be better to do it this way, since it's a few screens shorter and you would only need to get lucky once in the gambling game.
1.L3
2.Up+A
3.Gambling game 1x
4.Blue candle
5.L4
6.L1
Its not a good idea to use the gambling game ever in a speed run. The chances of getting the +50 rupees is 1 in 6. You have to choose the winner out of the 3 choices, but theres also the chance that the +50 rupee choice will not be available when you walk in. It could be the +20,
-10, -40 room. Even if you did win the +20 rupees, you would have to walk out and in again to play for more money. Unless you plan on starting over and redoing L3 several times, you should just stick with:
1.L3
2.Up+A
3.L4
4.Up+A
5.30 rupees
6.Blue Candle
If you get the heart container on the way to 1, it's better to do this. It's only 1 screen longer and level 6 has a lot of fighting so the magical sword is helpful.
21.Arrows
22.Magical Sword
23.L6
I agree. Take the extra few seconds getting the heart container on the way to 1 so you can have magical sword for both 6 and 9.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Michael Fried wrote:
So when you warp in the 2nd quest, what order do you go to the 1st quest warp points in? Would it be L1, L3, L2, L5, L4... or would it be L1, L2, L3, L4, L5...?
Its 1,2,3,4,5. When you get the whistle and finish L2, the warp point you start off with is Q1 L3.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Deviance wrote:
I have dungeons 1 and 2 almost mastered; it'll take around 8 hits with the wooden sword to beat Gleeok in lv4, I think I can manage it with quick movements. Stunning enemies and walking through them with the boomerang helps at some parts, do you think it would be worth the detour to get it? I'm playing level 6 now, and clearing rooms with the blue wizzrobes without taking much damage is really difficult. They take around 6 white sword hits so I'm sticking with using bombs, but I have to be careful not to waste any. Same goes for fighting blue darknuts in level 8.
I think it would be better to just use your sword to hurt and walk through the enemies, or just walk around around them. Getting the boomerang wastes time and also, you will be constantly switching between boomerang and bombs, wasting even more time. You should just keep bombs for button B.
Bombs have the same attack power as magical sword, so they kill the red wizzrobes and darknuts in one blast. One thing to take note is when bombing darknuts, you must drop the bomb perpendicular to their movement. For example, if the darknut is moving up or down, you must drop the bomb to the left or right in order to hurt them. If you drop the bomb left or right, and the darknut is moving left or right, they wont be affected. The darknut will still flash like its hurt, but its actually not injured at all. So if you ever bomb red darknuts, and they dont die, that means you didnt drop perpendicular. This is really important to note for the blue darknuts, since 1 bomb wont kill them, and you wont know if you really injured them or not.