Ah so it lasts through cutscenes? Good to know.
Still, wouldn't it be faster to do that right before the password skip? You need to go up there anyway...
Sooo what did you store the door for? I can't wait for the next seg to find out. :D
the door scene is interrupted to make sure link is able to "ghost" through walls and objects(he has no collision in that specific state and the property is kept while the screen is blacked out)
I'm aware of what door storage does. My question was what he needs it for. ;)
Huh, this is interesting. From my guesstimations, the Firetemple route might actually be as fast/faster than the ganondoor route.
6:30 to well (taken from Grunz's any%)
2:30 chus
1:00 to market
6:00 market child in -> market adault out (taken from swordless' MST)
1:00 get eyeballfrog
3:00 eyeballfrog time
1:00 transitions and cutscenes
This comes down to 21 minutes. Current TAS WR is 21:50...
Ofcourse these timings are extremely rough, so I could be totally off.
Anybody got any input? Grunz?
Edit: I probably kinda underestimated the length of the fire temple. I just remembered Grunz saying once that he could do it in the eyeballfrog time.
So this is probably slightly slower than a ganondoor run, but not by much.
What do you guys think. Is this or the Fire Temple + eyeballfrog thing faster?
kid:
never equip a sword
get deku stick
bottle + chus + shield
ZL
adault:
magic
eyeballfrog + FW
steal Epona -> set FW at LH
DC WW -> Deku Tree WW -> credits http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwiavf9Gisk
This is about 5 minutes slower than ganondoor and the firetemple thing should be slower too, so this is purely academic.
Edit: Hmm dumb question. Fire Temple should be faster be quite a bit.
I would technically define them as part of the HUD, which is why I separated the two. Doesn't really matter to me, though.
I just took your rules and made them a little clearer, at least to me. But in essence, we agree.
Problem is HUD also includes B button and c-buttons and... well I wouldn't go there. Whole new can of worms.
So maybe:
- have every item and upgrade displayed on the menu-screen (outside and inside of dungeons) in it's best form
- Have 20 hearts
- Have 100 Skulltullas
- reach "the end"
- no item duplication
- No RBA except item amount RBA
Again I want to keep this as small as possible, while still being precise (guess I still care a little). I think it is that.
Can you even RBA heart pieces?
Yes you can RBA 1 heart piece and you can do it over and over again. (RBA one, collect 3, RBA one, collect 3 and so on)
There's an extra heart piece in Gerudo's Fortress as a child, which of course is not normally possible to get to.
For what it's worth, i think we should get it. Even though it's not normally possible to get, it's there, and we can get it, so i see no reason not to.
That seems to exceed 100% somewhat and gets again into "defining every little item seperately"-territory, again.
You need to get 20 hearts. If you use the gerudo heart piece is your thing, but then you should skip another one.
- Collect all heart containers and heart pieces.
- Collect all upgrades that are not shown in the menu.
- Collect all 100 Golden Skulltullas.
- Having each slot in the menu [including inside dungeons] filled with the best possible item that can fit inside that slot [that means collecting the best upgrades, too] when the game ends. If there is no best item, then any item will do.
- Item duplication glitch may not be used.
- No RBA to acquire not-yet collected items, but changing item amount is fine.
- Finish the game!
What about the cow and Epona?
- covered in 20 hearts and no duplication
- there are no upgrades that are not shown in the menu. magic bar and resist upgrade are also shown in the menu
- covered by having them and not being allowed to dupe or rba them
- also covered already
- yup
- mine was more precise, yours could be interpreted that heart piece rba is fine
What about the cow and Epona?
screw them
RachelB wrote:
Well we could change "end the game" to "reach the credits", just to be extra clear, otherwise i guess that's a good enough start. other than, again, the rba restriction.
I am totally fine with "reach the credits", although "reach 'the end' " might be more precise, since with some methods, you won't see the full credits...
Well we could change "end the game" to "reach the credits", just to be extra clear, otherwise i guess that's a good enough start. other than, again, the rba restriction.
Yeah it's really arbitrary, but I don't care anymore. Too many people were bitching about the fact that you could write upgrades into the menu...
Basically I stopped caring if it's a little bit longer or not, as long as we can nail something precise down. :D Can we use that one as a work draft? For now? Do you want to add anything else?
Also that RBA-part is really arbitrary, but I don't care anymore.
I'm sure 20 other people, who will see this thread tomorrow, will want something completely different anyway. XD
To make it 100% precise:
- have every menu-item and upgrade (outside and inside of dungeons) in it's best form
- Have 20 hearts
- Have 100 Skulltullas
- end the game
- no item duplication
- No RBA except item amount RBA
That is as precise as it gets, covers everything and is way less text than your paragraphs.
But RachelB won't like it... because of... things
No, it doesn't. It says collect all items that appear in the menu at all points in time. Because hookshot and longshot BOTH appear in the menu at some point of time, they should both be collected (though perhaps the definition may be a little vague and may need some rewording).
Yeah, sorry nobody is going to do that.
What does max out really mean?
Honestly, if you reword it a little, it sounds almost like my first paragraph. Yours is very arbitrary and you are trying to dumb it down while mine is more precise.
Yours may be a little more precise, but nobody is going to go through all of that.
"Max out" should be pretty self evident. It means every item/upgrade in it's best form and all the skulltullas.
Also, how does one "max out" bottles?
The same as one maxes out bow, or hammer. You don't. The menu needs to get maxed out, not individual items. If items don't have a better form, the basic form is "max".
Like my edit says your definition could also be seen as "only get the slot filled", doesn't matter what's in there.
Also there is quite a bit of harm in doing unneccesary stuff, that no 100% run would ever do it. prolongs the run. Makes it seem worse than it is. If something is overwritten anywa<, you don't collect it.
Also tbh, my last definition was more precise. Maybe a little bit more arbitrary, but I don't really think so...
That doesn't work either, sorry.
According to your definition you would have to collect everything. First hookshot, then longshot, go through all the adault trade instead of just the last part, etc.
Either that or you would only need the first item in the trading sequence and only the hookshot, etc.
Ugh I'm so tired of this. I'm going back to
- Maxed out menu inside and outside of dungeons*
with the new:
*maxed out does not mean item amount or amunition have to be maxed nor locations/symbols on maps removed or set
I so don't care that it's kind of arbitrary. At least it's clear, precise and doesn't need 20 paragraphs to explain.
Who is suggesting 14 rules?
What i've suggested is 2: all unique and permanent items, plus right side equipment.
Those are empty words. To define "all unique permanent items" you need 20 paragraphs.
It seems clear what it means with no further explanation, assuming you already know what those two words mean.
Yeah it doesn't include heart pieces and skulltullas for example. Since those are not unique nor items. That seems absolutely clear.
It also doesn't include the double magic bar or the double resist, as those are not items or equipment.
It really doesn't, imo...
But maybe "have every menu-item and upgrade (outside and inside of dungeons) in it's best form"? That would also solve our map screen dilemma...
Now you're just making it more and more arbitrary.
I notice that it's getting more arbitrary. These two rules are still way better than 14+ individual rules about what to collect and what not to collect, because we like it that way. ;)
So that would be:
- have every menu-item and upgrade (outside and inside of dungeons) in it's best form
- no item duplication
- (RBA?)
- end the game
Still pretty compact.
Also, maxing out the subscreen would imply you have to get all the beans. Though I suppose that is one lesser evil for fewer exceptions.
Bean count is just as ammunition count. Doesn't count towards maxing out.
Also, maxing out maps seem kind of pointless... another drawback with the maxing out subscreen definition.
I guess we could exclude maps... yeah I notice myself it gets more and more arbitrary. ;p
But lets see anyway:
- max out the start screens inside and outside of dungeons, not counting stuff on maps
- item duplication is banned
( - RBA?)
- end the game
Edit:
RachelB wrote:
EEssentia wrote:
Also, maxing out the subscreen would imply you have to get all the beans.
it also implies you need to finish with 50 bombs, bomchus, arrows, etc. Also, you wouldn't even be allowed to plant any beans.
It really doesn't, imo...
But maybe "have every menu-item and upgrade (outside and inside of dungeons) in it's best form"? That would also solve our map screen dilemma...
To clear up what RBA can do for 100%:
RBA can get:
- all child stones (this probably wouldn't be done, since you need the boss heart container anyway)
- a few medallions (this definatly wouldn't be done, since you need the boss heart containers and getting the light medallion abck takes forever)
- Can write upgrades into the inventory (don't know if this could be done, since this also writes corrupt stuff into the slots. Would depend if you could get rid of it afterwards. Would have to investigate..)
- Can get you at least one extra bottle (this would probably skip poe collecting)
- Can write you one heart piece into the inventory (so this would allow you to skip a few heart pieces, but not nearly all of them)
Ofcourse I'm operating under the assumption here, that item duplication would be banned.
Or we just specifically ban those glitches...
There are only two that would be apllicable here. RBA and item duplication.
I think banning item duplication is a valid point. I wouldn't ban RBA since it isn't that usefull in in 100% anyway, but ymmv.
