Posts for Slowking

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Posted: 2/1/2020 9:59 PM
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Slowking
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Nobody went to the highest level to break the web for quite a while. You'd hover off a skulltulla. Mido skip is also feasable for humans to do in a run. With the GIM route it just wasn't worth it, since you needed to go through there twice. The route before that did use mido skip. So I'm still not quite sure what you are on about. I especially don't get how it prevented you from tasing.
Posted: 1/31/2020 9:54 PM
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Slowking
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
First speedruns without Ocarina but still with slingshot are happening: https://youtu.be/QnmGSFXm-Ms
Posted: 1/30/2020 11:13 PM
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Slowking
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
MrGrunz wrote:
Just out of curiosity: Can you explain a few more technical details about this? Why would this make it possible to skip the Slingshot? I always thought slingshot is needed to manipulate certain memory values by creating seeds. Maybe I have a huge misconception here :/
Yes, but also no. :D There are a few different things here. At the moment you use the slingshot direction to write certain values. But you don't technically need to. Link's angle or first person angle could be used as well (the later has more options but is not really viable for RTA, as far as I understand). Up until the return-A Ocarina skip was found you would have needed a deku seed drop to move the camera without the ocarina. So for that you still would have needed the slingshot. (and it was kinda hard for RTA, which is why nobody worked on a heap manip for it, as far as I understand). So now with the return A ocarina skip it is viable to also skip the slingshot and people are looking for a heap manip and a way to use Link's angle. There is still a chance that this might not work out, though. But I have faith in those guys.
Posted: 1/30/2020 8:54 PM
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Slowking
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Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
With this it should now be possible to skip slingshot and Ocarina: https://youtu.be/hYXq5NgEWcI
Warp wrote:
It didn't especially help that I'm not exactly an OoT speedrunning expert, and I have very little knowledge of the internal details of most of the tricks, routes and glitches
Well, you could have learned if you really wanted to see that route tased. ZSR is a good reasource and there are a lot of friendly, helpfull people on the dicord.
Warp wrote:
(especially the ones that are not used in the unassisted speedrun because they are not feasible for humans to do consistently).
The only tricks in this game that humans can't do are z- and a- slides.
Warp wrote:
All these tricks and techniques can be seen in the unofficial N64 TAS (ie. the one that uses the (previous) any% route that normally crashes the console, but doesn't crash the emulator for some reason)
The reason is that it uses a graphics plugin that emulates so inaccurately that it doesn't crash. You can see quite a few graphics glitches throughout the run. Most graphics plugins do crash.
Posted: 1/22/2020 8:48 AM
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Slowking
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Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Warp wrote:
Slowking wrote:
The currently published run is pretty close to perfect with what was possible before ACE was found. As evidenced by the fact that it was even faster than RTA runs that used GIM on VC. So not sure what excuses you are refering to.
For a really, really long time nobody has been willing to make a TAS for the Wii VC version of the game. In some cases I have seen the strangest of reasons stated for that, such as "it would be boring because it would just be the same as the normal speedrun, just a bit faster" (which is ludicrous because as seen from the unofficial invalid N64 TAS, the TAS would be quite different). It's the only game I know of that nobody is interested of making a TAS of, because of such a silly reason. But now that the new strat is actually doable on a N64, maybe now somebody would be willing to finally bring the TAS to the current decade (if the major hurdle has always been the need to make it a Wii TAS instead of a N64 one).
What it comes down to is that nobody was motivated to do such a TAS and that Dolphin's TAS tools are kinda shitty certainly didn't help. Why didn't you make a TAS if you really wanted to see one? Was somebody holding a gun to your head?
Posted: 1/21/2020 11:06 AM
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Slowking
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Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
So from what I gather it currently looks like you can probably either skip slingshot or ocarina, but not both. Ocarina skip needs slingshot seeds dropping from a rock. Slingshot skip obviously still needs Ocarina to manipulate camera. Both would need special heap manipulations though. Not sure what would be faster.
Posted: 1/20/2020 11:57 AM
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Slowking
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Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Warp wrote:
Does this finally remove the last excuse not to make an updated tasvideos-legal TAS of this game?
The currently published run is pretty close to perfect with what was possible before ACE was found. As evidenced by the fact that it was even faster than RTA runs that used GIM on VC. So not sure what excuses you are refering to. This ACE credit warp can be used on N64, so it can be used in a TAS, if that's what you mean. But somebody has to actually want to make such a TAS. Also there are still things getting worked out. Maybe it's possible to skip ocarina and slingshot. Maybe not. We'll see.
Posted: 1/12/2020 7:08 PM
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Slowking
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
It does work on real iQue hardware. It could work on real N64 hardware in principle, but I don't think there is a heap manip for it yet. Btw. in case some people haven't seen it yet. Here are some things you can do with ACE in this game: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/533026710?t=05h49m59s
Posted: 12/1/2019 1:48 PM
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Slowking
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Faster run by three minutes, not on CRT TV: https://youtu.be/uHbkzQgABiM Sadly the manipulation doesn't work out well on J, so the TAS is going to be on U. In MM text speed difference is pretty much non existent between the versions, so that's not a problem. But it would have been nice to have power crouch stab for the Majora fight. Now that the holy grail (moon warp) has been found, our next holy grail would be to get our hands on a mask in first cycle. With it we could turn human and thus skip getting magic, the ocarina, song of healing and all the long cutscenes associated with those items. It even seems close in the laundry pool, but it seems like we have juuust a bit too little speed. - If we could unrestrict items and use bombs as deku there, it would already be solved. But sadly, Nintendo is not Grezo. - If Deku Link was as tall as zora, we could just sidehop to the laundry pool wall. - If there was a damage source, like the dog, in laundry pool, we could just clip in. Sadly none of those seem to be happening. Maybe somebody will find a new way to unrestrict items at some point. Maybe there could be something with the frog pushing you and giving you extra speed/height, but that seems very, very, very unlikely.
Posted: 11/22/2019 8:29 AM
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Slowking
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
PikachuMan wrote:
This trick will NOT work on the Japanese N64 and Japanese Virtual Console versions. It hasn't been tested on the Japanese GameCube version, I doubt it'll work on the 3DS version due to better hardware.
Yeah, better hardware is the problem. Not that owl saves don't exist... better hardware. The underlying SRM does seem to work in 3D (although not sure to what extend) but I don't think anybody has messed with it yet. The order will probably be "more ACE and control in OoT", then "ACE and more control in MM", then maybe somebody will look at the 3Ds.
evilas wrote:
Oh hey, technically those are also the new Low% records, with only 12 items! (and that's lowerable to 10 bc chus and sticks aren't required)
There could maybe be a heap manipulation that doesn't need bombs. That would bring it down to 8. But yeah, currently the lowest would be 10. But either way, no hovering up ST anymore. :)
Posted: 11/21/2019 12:42 AM
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Slowking
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Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
There is a run with moon warp now. It's not great and the route will change a little in the future (day 2 woods of mystery has the bottle and a grotto with a fish). But it's interesting to see the whole thing in action: https://youtu.be/9ZXOSRezOWE (57:29) Edit: Better run: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/511199247 (39:50) Edit2: Even better run: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/511100539?t=05h25m06s (39:38)
Posted: 11/12/2019 9:05 PM
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Slowking
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Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Synx wrote:
So after investigating and reviewing this new stuff I still can't find a way to make it shorten the length of the current any% TAS, what am I missing? And this is assuming it would actually work on n64 as per FaschZ claim 2 posts above.
I mean it's hard to shorten any%. It's pretty freaking short. Did anybody say it would? I could see executing a short ACE command that starts the credits. You'd certainly need chus, maybe a bottle. Not sure if it could be done faster than current any%. GIM only crashes because the console tries to render something invalid. You can fix this on N64 with certain GIMs by pulling out a trade item or magic bean or something similar beforehand. Nothing invalid is being rendered with SRM.
Posted: 2/26/2019 8:24 AM
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Slowking
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Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
low% maybe? Although the ocarina would probably be a problem there... I mean for most categories that is the slowest exit and you need a weapon anyway. If you could get itemless through the zora river exit I could see it. Never going to the shop seems like it would be a time save. But there are no small rocks in the lost woods and you can't pick up bushes without at strength upgrade, so...
Posted: 8/12/2018 8:41 PM
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Slowking
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Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
NAM actually got it working: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVSbTnQ4fP8 All hail NAM. :)
Posted: 8/2/2018 8:23 AM
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Slowking
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Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Works with explosives or freezing the bubble position. So it should work with proper execution.
Posted: 7/29/2018 9:00 PM
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Slowking
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Btw. Grunz, if you are bored, you could try and get this one working. ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPw-B8PnL4o
Posted: 7/26/2018 11:33 PM
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Slowking
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Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
I don't think chu route is done quite yet, since it's not clear if you'd get the shield from botw or buy it in the shop before going to the deku tree. At the moment it's a bit slow since half the people are at ESA, but maybe come by the discord sometime (link in PM). :) For a time we were trying to make GIMing a bottle in botw fast (you can fix it for N64 with a magic bean), but there is always some bullshit that prevents it from working. For example, we can get Blank A with a sword, but then we can't use it, so no JS clip.
Posted: 7/15/2018 8:21 PM
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Slowking
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Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
I don't think so. Even if they do, as far as I know you need a chu or the slingshot to get Goma off the ceiling as long as the babies are still alive. Edit: I mean the slingshot could be faster than getting bugs. You could test if the babies survive.
Posted: 7/15/2018 2:04 PM
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Slowking
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Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Warp wrote:
Why not make the same TAS using Dolphin and the Wii VC version of the game?
The GIM route is boring and so nobody wanted to do it. If you do, go for it.
Mitjitsu wrote:
One thing I've realised about the current GIM TAS is that it would be faster to manipulate a fairy during the Ghoma fight rather than going back to the Lost Woods to get the bugs for the blue warp trick.
That only works if you have chus. Only the babies drop fairies. Which means you can't reload the room, which means you need explosives to get through the stone slab.
Mitjitsu wrote:
Found this video showing the theorised route and it's a lot slower compared to the current WR
It's a quick test against a run that has been optimised for years. Plus RTA is bad. ;) We'll see.
Enterim wrote:
Mitjitsu wrote:
Is it even possible to ISG in collapse tower room? One thing I've realised about the current GIM TAS is that it would be faster to manipulate a fairy during the Ghoma fight rather than going back to the Lost Woods to get the bugs for the blue warp trick.
You can get C-up (Navi text) ISG off any locked/barred doors, and I think there's one in tower collapse room.
There isn't. But on the plus side ISG is not needed.
Posted: 1/19/2018 9:34 PM
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Slowking
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Just in case somebody hasn't heard yet. Light Arrow skip: https://clips.twitch.tv/AmazingPolishedNightingaleDogFace (caution: requires a lot of hvoering) Alternate method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kKRo3S62Ws
Posted: 1/17/2018 4:41 AM
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Slowking
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Only 3 days left. Can't wait. :)
Posted: 1/1/2018 1:21 AM
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Slowking
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Since there is nothing to be done to fix the actual plugin, I made a report asking for it to fail a bit more gracefully, instead of crashing the whole emulator. Ofcourse that seems very low priority, but maybe somebody will get to it at some point.
Posted: 12/31/2017 5:44 AM
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Slowking
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Thanks again. At least for Zelda games I wouldn't touch Rice with a ten foot pole though. It has a lot of visual bugs and actually allows the use of GIM in OoT, which crashes on a real N64 and all other graphics plugins, including Jabo. It probably has it's uses in other games though.
Posted: 12/31/2017 4:53 AM
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Slowking
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Ah thank you. Never knew about this additional way to reach the setting. Edit: Also I'm a bit of a dummy. It works with my NVIDIA GPU, the crash is with the Intel GPU (Sandybridge). Should I still add a bug report so you guys can make sure it fails a bit more gracefully or is this a case of "why bother"?
Posted: 12/31/2017 4:48 AM
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Slowking
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
GLideN64 crashes my bizhawk. 
Protokollname: Application
Quelle:        .NET Runtime
Datum:         31.12.2017 05:41:25
Ereignis-ID:   1026
Aufgabenkategorie:Keine
Ebene:         Fehler
Schlüsselwörter:Klassisch
Benutzer:      Nicht zutreffend
Computer:      
Beschreibung:
Anwendung: EmuHawk.exe
Frameworkversion: v4.0.30319
Beschreibung: Der Prozess wurde aufgrund einer unbehandelten Ausnahme beendet.
Ausnahmeinformationen: System.AccessViolationException
   bei BizHawk.Emulation.Cores.Nintendo.N64.NativeApi.mupen64plusApi.ExecuteEmulator()
   bei System.Threading.ExecutionContext.RunInternal(System.Threading.ExecutionContext, System.Threading.ContextCallback, System.Object, Boolean)
   bei System.Threading.ExecutionContext.Run(System.Threading.ExecutionContext, System.Threading.ContextCallback, System.Object, Boolean)
   bei System.Threading.ExecutionContext.Run(System.Threading.ExecutionContext, System.Threading.ContextCallback, System.Object)
   bei System.Threading.ThreadHelper.ThreadStart()


Ereignis-XML:
<Event>
  <System>
    <Provider>
    <EventID>1026</EventID>
    <Level>2</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated>
    <EventRecordID>2478</EventRecordID>
    <Channel>Application</Channel>
    <Computer>DESKTOP-0R3JF2H</Computer>
    <Security>
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data>Anwendung: EmuHawk.exe
Frameworkversion: v4.0.30319
Beschreibung: Der Prozess wurde aufgrund einer unbehandelten Ausnahme beendet.
Ausnahmeinformationen: System.AccessViolationException
   bei BizHawk.Emulation.Cores.Nintendo.N64.NativeApi.mupen64plusApi.ExecuteEmulator()
   bei System.Threading.ExecutionContext.RunInternal(System.Threading.ExecutionContext, System.Threading.ContextCallback, System.Object, Boolean)
   bei System.Threading.ExecutionContext.Run(System.Threading.ExecutionContext, System.Threading.ContextCallback, System.Object, Boolean)
   bei System.Threading.ExecutionContext.Run(System.Threading.ExecutionContext, System.Threading.ContextCallback, System.Object)
   bei System.Threading.ThreadHelper.ThreadStart()

</Data>
  </EventData>
</Event>
Protokollname: Application
Quelle:        Application Error
Datum:         31.12.2017 05:41:25
Ereignis-ID:   1000
Aufgabenkategorie:(100)
Ebene:         Fehler
Schlüsselwörter:Klassisch
Benutzer:      Nicht zutreffend
Computer:      
Beschreibung:
Name der fehlerhaften Anwendung: EmuHawk.exe, Version: 2.2.1.1, Zeitstempel: 0x59f5ee38
Name des fehlerhaften Moduls: mupen64plus-video-GLideN64.dll, Version: 0.0.0.0, Zeitstempel: 0x593dbcfb
Ausnahmecode: 0xc0000005
Fehleroffset: 0x0000000000092b00
ID des fehlerhaften Prozesses: 0x1770
Startzeit der fehlerhaften Anwendung: 0x01d381f181518b43
Pfad der fehlerhaften Anwendung: D:\Programme\bizhawk 2.2.1\EmuHawk.exe
Pfad des fehlerhaften Moduls: D:\Programme\bizhawk 2.2.1\dll\mupen64plus-video-GLideN64.dll
Berichtskennung: b81a0ad3-b39b-457e-8b2a-728ea5bbd32a
Vollständiger Name des fehlerhaften Pakets: 
Anwendungs-ID, die relativ zum fehlerhaften Paket ist: 
Ereignis-XML:
<Event>
  <System>
    <Provider>
    <EventID>1000</EventID>
    <Level>2</Level>
    <Task>100</Task>
    <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated>
    <EventRecordID>2479</EventRecordID>
    <Channel>Application</Channel>
    <Computer>DESKTOP-0R3JF2H</Computer>
    <Security>
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data>EmuHawk.exe</Data>
    <Data>2.2.1.1</Data>
    <Data>59f5ee38</Data>
    <Data>mupen64plus-video-GLideN64.dll</Data>
    <Data>0.0.0.0</Data>
    <Data>593dbcfb</Data>
    <Data>c0000005</Data>
    <Data>0000000000092b00</Data>
    <Data>1770</Data>
    <Data>01d381f181518b43</Data>
    <Data>D:\Programme\bizhawk 2.2.1\EmuHawk.exe</Data>
    <Data>D:\Programme\bizhawk 2.2.1\dll\mupen64plus-video-GLideN64.dll</Data>
    <Data>b81a0ad3-b39b-457e-8b2a-728ea5bbd32a</Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
  </EventData>
</Event>
Problem is, it's default and I can't change it since the N64 settings only pop up once you've loaded an N64 Rom and it crashes pretty much immediatly. I also couldn't find an obvious setting in the config file. Is there any way to change the plugin?
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